Thought I'd Share (Ebay 1986 Fleer Pack Scam-2012)

[autocentral]

Hey guys,

I thought I would share my story of how I lost $425 and an Ebay buyerickle-us got a refund as well as got my 1986 Fleer Basketball GAI 9 Pack. I'm still bitter and still hesitate to sell on ebay because of this experience, which happened at the end of 2012.

Everything at first was going great. Buyer paid $425 within a day of purchase and I shipped out via one-day shipping priority USPS mail. The only thing I failed to put on the item was signature confirmation (dumb mistake on my part because I thought with paying so much for shipping the carrier would make sure it was important, young mistake I guess). The buyer knew ebay protocol and with no proof the item was delivered to him he claimed the day he received the item that he never got it. He filed and claim. I talked it over with ebay and they told me I'd never win the case against him even though he might have the item. I was forced to refund him the money. After all this he has the nerve to give me a positive feedback on ebay "Never Got My Item, But The Seller Was Very Nice!!!" A month later he deleted his ebay account (fishy right). I emailed paypal/ebay right away and they told me they couldn't do anything.

Just in case you need more on the buyer, his name is Samuel Eitan Cohen.
Eitan Cohen


Another name that was included with the buyer was:
Mr. Damien Proctor


I'm not one to post negative stuff about anyone. But this is just a lesson to be more careful how you ship stuff (even if you ship thousands of packages without a problem). Just shows you how some people can beat the system. I worked hard for that cash (I'm only 21 now, was 18 at the time), pretty much my first big card purchase and it went sour. But I guess it all works out in the long run. Thought I'd share just in case anyone stumbles across someone like this.

Thanks,
-Nick

[7nohitter]

Hm, Cambridge is 20 minutes from me...

[autocentral]

Originally Posted by 7nohitter

Hm, Cambridge is 20 minutes from me...

I don't know why this address came up in the ebay buyers address. I don't know if the guy was using a real name and a fake name or two people were involved. It is just weird all around. I shipped to New Jersey (I know that for a fact because I saved the receipt as a harsh memory).

-Nick

[DHogan]

303 3rd St
Unit 524
Cambridge, MA 02142-1167

I work a 1/2 mile from there. Not a low rent neighbourhood.

[autocentral]

I'd imagine. But again I don't know how involved the person in Mass. was because all the communications I have are with Samuel Eitan Cohen.

Nick

[1963Topps Set]

Wait a minute! You had better double check with the Post Office. All packages have some sort of tracking automatically! I should know, I deliver hundreds of packages everyday and 99.99 percent have some sort of tracking. All packages have to be scanned into the system for the Post Office's protection too! This is from the day the package is sent, to it run through the system, to it's arrival at the unit, to its departure to the street, right to its delivery. If you still have your receipt, double check to see if there is a confirmation number on there. Or better, post a scan of the receipt so I can see it. I find it hard to believe the Post Office just delivered the package without any documentation of its journey. Please let me know and update me.

Also, did you check with the Post Office with your receipt in hand? Or did you just tend to it internally with EBay?

Tom

[Donscards]

Originally Posted by autocentral

Hey guys,

I thought I would share my story of how I lost $425 and an Ebay buyerickle-us got a refund as well as got my 1986 Fleer Basketball GAI 9 Pack. I'm still bitter and still hesitate to sell on ebay because of this experience, which happened at the end of 2012.

Everything at first was going great. Buyer paid $425 within a day of purchase and I shipped out via one-day shipping priority USPS mail. The only thing I failed to put on the item was signature confirmation (dumb mistake on my part because I thought with paying so much for shipping the carrier would make sure it was important, young mistake I guess). The buyer knew ebay protocol and with no proof the item was delivered to him he claimed the day he received the item that he never got it. He filed and claim. I talked it over with ebay and they told me I'd never win the case against him even though he might have the item. I was forced to refund him the money. After all this he has the nerve to give me a positive feedback on ebay "Never Got My Item, But The Seller Was Very Nice!!!" A month later he deleted his ebay account (fishy right). I emailed paypal/ebay right away and they told me they couldn't do anything.

Just in case you need more on the buyer, his name is Samuel Eitan Cohen. Address listed is:
Eitan Cohen


Another name that was included with the buyer was:
Mr. Damien Proctor


I'm not one to post negative stuff about anyone. But this is just a lesson to be more careful how you ship stuff (even if you ship thousands of packages without a problem). Just shows you how some people can beat the system. I worked hard for that cash (I'm only 21 now, was 18 at the time), pretty much my first big card purchase and it went sour. But I guess it all works out in the long run. Thought I'd share just in case anyone stumbles across someone like this.

Thanks,
-Nick

Sam Cohen got me too---quite a flim flam artist he is---he also used the other name (Damien Proctor) where I received the paypal payment from---he backed out of a deal with me for many 1986 fleer packs---and then the payment went back to Procto---he is a real con man--quite a smooth talker, but all bull. I hope ebay kicked him off.

[autocentral]

Originally Posted by 1963Topps Set

Wait a minute! You had better double check with the Post Office. All packages have some sort of tracking automatically! I should know, I deliver hundreds of packages everyday and 99.99 percent have some sort of tracking. All packages have to be scanned into the system for the Post Office's protection too! This is from the day the package is sent, to it run through the system, to it's arrival at the unit, to its departure to the street, right to its delivery. If you still have your receipt, double check to see if there is a confirmation number on there. Or better, post a scan of the receipt so I can see it. I find it hard to believe the Post Office just delivered the package without any documentation of its journey. Please let me know and update me.

Also, did you check with the Post Office with your receipt in hand? Or did you just tend to it internally with EBay?

Tom

There was a tracking number and the online delivery said the package was delivered but the problem was there was no signature confirmation.

-Nick

[autocentral]

Originally Posted by Donscards

Sam Cohen got me too---quite a flim flam artist he is---he also used the other name (Damien Proctor) where I received the paypal payment from---he backed out of a deal with me for many 1986 fleer packs---and then the payment went back to Procto---he is a real con man--quite a smooth talker, but all bull. I hope ebay kicked him off.

Wow man, I don't think they kicked him off ebay. He is still probably using some fake names.

-Nick

[1963Topps Set]

Originally Posted by autocentral

There was a tracking number and the online delivery said the package was delivered but the problem was there was no signature confirmation.

-Nick

Did you tell EBay that the package was delivered and that its delivery was documented by the Postal Service? This should of gotten you off the hook. You did everything on your end to complete the transaction. You posted the package and it was delivered. What if the package had been stolen from his doorstep? Would you then still be blamed? All you had to do was get the package to its destination. You did this. It is up to the buyer if there is anything outside of the normal delivery fees, like Express or signature required, etc,. Not you. Did you know about Restricted Delivery?

[Republicaninmass]

I had a 2 family on 5th street

kendall sq tech neighborhood nowadays

[DHogan]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

I had a 2 family on 5th street

kendall sq tech neighborhood nowadays

Just about all those houses in that area have been renovated. They all look very small from the outside.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by 1963Topps Set

Did you tell EBay that the package was delivered and that its delivery was documented by the Postal Service? This should of gotten you off the hook. You did everything on your end to complete the transaction. You posted the package and it was delivered. What if the package had been stolen from his doorstep? Would you then still be blamed? All you had to do was get the package to its destination. You did this. It is up to the buyer if there is anything outside of the normal delivery fees, like Express or signature required, etc,. Not you. Did you know about Restricted Delivery?

At that time Ebay automatically sided with the buyer for any purchase over $250 that did not have Signature confirmation, even if delivery confirmation said "delivered".

In Ebay's mind, yes, the seller was responsible for the security of the buyer's mailbox and front porch if the item was over a certain value. I believe they've since upped that requirement to $500 or so.

[Donscards]

Originally Posted by 1963Topps Set

Did you tell EBay that the package was delivered and that its delivery was documented by the Postal Service? This should of gotten you off the hook. You did everything on your end to complete the transaction. You posted the package and it was delivered. What if the package had been stolen from his doorstep? Would you then still be blamed? All you had to do was get the package to its destination. You did this. It is up to the buyer if there is anything outside of the normal delivery fees, like Express or signature required, etc,. Not you. Did you know about Restricted Delivery?

On cards or items over $250, you have to have signature confirmation, tracking will not help---ebay and paypal require a signature or you will lose your case unless they have a signature---Delivery confirmation doesnt count with tracking---you need the signature, that is why they lost the case along with many other ebay sellers---always use signature confirmation if you want to protect yourself from scammers.

[1963Topps Set]

Originally Posted by Donscards

On cards or items over $250, you have to have signature confirmation, tracking will not help---ebay and paypal require a signature or you will lose your case unless they have a signature---Delivery confirmation doesnt count with tracking---you need the signature, that is why they lost the case along with many other ebay sellers---always use signature confirmation if you want to protect yourself from scammers.

I don't agree. Anyone can sign for a delivery confirmation. Husbands signs for wife, parent signs for child, etc.. There are many times someone signs the name on the package and not their own name. Delivery confirmation does NOT prove a package was delivered to the person it was destined for.

For example, my mother signs my name to a package for me. I say I didn't get it is not my handwriting on the pink slip. Now what, you have to pay?


Now Restricted Delivery is another thing. In that case, ONLY the person who the package is destined for can sign for it and they need proper Identification to do so.

Ebay's case is very weak (if indeed they ever had a case) and certainly did not protect the seller here. What a crock!

[Donscards]

Originally Posted by 1963Topps Set

I don't agree. Anyone can sign for a delivery confirmation. Husbands signs for wife, parent signs for child, etc.. There are many times someone signs the name on the package and not their own name. Delivery confirmation does NOT prove a package was delivered to the person it was destined for.

For example, my mother signs my name to a package for me. I say I didn't get it is not my handwriting on the pink slip. Now what, you have to pay?


Now Restricted Delivery is another thing. In that case, ONLY the person who the package is destined for can sign for it and they need proper Identification to do so.

Ebay's case is very weak (if indeed they ever had a case) and certainly did not protect the seller here. What a crock!

What I am saying it that Ebay and Paypal need signature confirmation on any item over $250---if you dont get the signature, they will side with the buyer on all cases---it has to be signature confirmation---Delivery confirmation doesnt cut it with ebay , they want the signature.

[1963Topps Set]

Originally Posted by Donscards

What I am saying it that Ebay and Paypal need signature confirmation on any item over $250---if you dont get the signature, they will side with the buyer on all cases---it has to be signature confirmation---Delivery confirmation doesnt cut it with ebay , they want the signature.

I understand that. What I am saying is signature confirmation does NOT prove the person, for whom the package is destined for, received it. For the reasons explained in my previous post.

[abothebear]

yes, but it does take the responsibility off of the seller. No matter who signs, a signature act shifts the responsibility for the destination of the package to the signer and/or the one recording the signature. maybe?

[nolemmings]

Sorry for your loss, but am wondering why you it's been more than two years since this event before you're telling us about it.

[1963Topps Set]

Originally Posted by abothebear

yes, but it does take the responsibility off of the seller. No matter who signs, a signature act shifts the responsibility for the destination of the package to the signer and/or the one recording the signature. maybe?

So, if I sent you a package with delivery confirmation and someone else signs for it with your name, then steals it, you don't get the package, I have to pay for it?

[Rollingstone206]

...

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by 1963Topps Set

So, if I sent you a package with delivery confirmation and someone else signs for it with your name, then steals it, you don't get the package, I have to pay for it?

Theoretically - yes. I would hope no stranger is sitting inside your house who is able to sign your name or you might have larger problems than a missing package.

[Exhibitman]

It is not about whether the buyer gets the item it is about PayPal policies. If you want to be covered by the PayPal seller protections for an item over the arbitrary value limit it sets you have to send priority with delivery and signature confirmations. Do that and if the buyer says it never arrived you won't have to pay. Don't do it and you lose automatically. Not really complicated.

[1963Topps Set]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

It is not about whether the buyer gets the item it is about PayPal policies. If you want to be covered by the PayPal seller protections for an item over the arbitrary value limit it sets you have to send priority with delivery and signature confirmations. Do that and if the buyer says it never arrived you won't have to pay. Don't do it and you lose automatically. Not really complicated.

That is understood, but I don't agree with it.

[1963Topps Set]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

Theoretically - yes. I would hope no stranger is sitting inside your house who is able to sign your name or you might have larger problems than a missing package.

Who says it has to be a stranger? It could be a family member. I have seen many family members at each other's throats. It could also be a "friend". Who says they have to be inside the house? There are many intangibles working here.

[autocentral]

I recently got a couple of packages from ebay sellers of items over $500 where the seller put signature confirmation and USPS dropped it in my mailbox without requesting a signature. I think the point is more ethical and moral than anything. Some people just look to exploit rules just to profit.

-Nick

[Donscards]

Originally Posted by 1963Topps Set

Who says it has to be a stranger? It could be a family member. I have seen many family members at each other's throats. It could also be a "friend". Who says they have to be inside the house? There are many intangibles working here.

Tom You wont give up here , the bottom line with Ebay and Paypal, you have to get a signature, without it, you will lose any case the buyer opens against you.

[autocentral]

Originally Posted by Donscards

Tom You wont give up here , the bottom line with Ebay and Paypal, you have to get a signature, without it, you will lose any case the buyer opens against you.

That is for sure.

-Nick

[pawpawdiv9]

Buy insurance. Its should be automatic for those to sign for the package.

[autocentral]

Originally Posted by pawpawdiv9

Buy insurance. Its should be automatic for those to sign for the package.

Chris,

Trust me I know that now. Back then I did not.

Thanks,
-Nick

[1963Topps Set]

Nick, I just wanted you to know I am on your side all the way here! Tom

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by DHogan

Just about all those houses in that area have been renovated. They all look very small from the outside.

Mine was #34 and yes I renovated and sold it a few years ago





On cards or items over $250, you have to have signature confirmation, tracking doesnt help Didn't this change last May? If not, I recently was on the buying end of something over 250, says delivered and never arrived

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Donscards

Tom You wont give up here , the bottom line with Ebay and Paypal, you have to get a signature, without it, you will lose any case the buyer opens against you.

i woud hope if someone is buying $1000 dollar cards they would ensure they have an address to safely get mail or pay $15 dollars and get a PO Box in which they have the only key.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

My advice is that if they say the graded item never showed up, then file a lost item claim with the postal service and be sure to include a detailed description with the grade and the cert number of the graded item. If it turns up again on Ebay or elsewhere, the item is legally yours and have the postal inspectors seize the item. This happened to me about 15 years ago.