HOF results

[paul]

Griffey and Piazza were elected. Griffey set a new record with 99% of the votes, breaking the record held by Tom Seaver. As a lifelong Seaver fan, I'm saddened.

[Wite3]

Begs the question...who are the three asses that left Griffey off and why?

Joshua

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Wite3

Begs the question...who are the three asses that left Griffey off and why?

Joshua

+1 Joshua, totally agree...

[Griffins]

Originally Posted by Wite3

Begs the question...who are the three asses that left Griffey off and why?

Joshua

Probably the same 3 that voted for Mike Sweeney.

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by Wite3

Begs the question...who are the three asses that left Griffey off and why?

Here is a plausible explanation. They wanted to vote for 11 guys but were limited to 10. If I was in that situation I could see leaving off the guy (Griffey) that was getting in no matter what I did.

[CMIZ5290]

First of all, the reason the three guys left off Griffey probably was because of someone getting hurt feelings on something as stupid as an interview where there were hurt feelings. Maybe someone didn't like the way Griffey treated him. In other words, someone getting pissed off and telling their other writer buddies. Maybe one of them agreed. Yes, human nature does come into the equation ( even though it shouldn't). Secondly, I look at Griffey from the time he was an 18yr old rookie to the time he retired, he basically had the same physical structure and abilities. Then I look at guys like McGwire, Bonds, and Sosa. Please.....Go back to their early photos and then look at how they ballooned up later in their careers. It's borderline ridiculous, and so obvious as well. Griffey was clean, and had the best swing ever in the game with maybe Ted W. getting a close argument. If he had not had the serious injuries, he would have hit 800 home runs. Just my opinion....

[oldjudge]

I think it's a joke that Piazza got in. He was a liability behind the plate. The most important part of a catcher's game is on defense.

[veloce]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

I think it's a joke that Piazza got in. He was a liability behind the plate. The most important part of a catcher's game is on defense.

A good article that points out that, while Piazza was poor at throwing out runners, he was a plus defender in addition to an all-time great offensive catcher: http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...han-a-big-bat/

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

First of all, the reason the three guys left off Griffey probably was because of someone getting hurt feelings on something as stupid as an interview where there were hurt feelings. Maybe someone didn't like the way Griffey treated him. In other words, someone getting pissed off and telling their other writer buddies. Maybe one of them agreed. Yes, human nature does come into the equation ( even though it shouldn't).

I'll bring up Jeff Kent again. How does a guy with his run producing numbers at second base not get more votes?? Your statements probably say it all.

[glchen]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

I'll bring up Jeff Kent again. How does a guy with his run producing numbers at second base not get more votes?? Your statements probably say it all.

I think Kent was hurt by the 10 player rule on the ballot. A lot of voters are still putting PED users on the ballot because they don't believe they should be excluded. Therefore, somewhat more "marginal" HOFers are losing significant numbers of votes.

I think Kent will eventually be voted in by the Veterans Committee, and I don't really have a problem with that approach.

Personally, I still don't believe PED users should get into the HOF. Their numbers aren't "real" numbers. People argue that they were competing against other PED users so those stats were legit. However, to me, it's like Lance Armstrong and the Tour de France. You can say that he was competing against other users on the Tour, so you shouldn't strip him of his titles? That doesn't make sense to me. The Hall honors the best players, and you can't really say you deserve to be one of the best if you cheated your way there.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

I'll bring up Jeff Kent again. How does a guy with his run producing numbers at second base not get more votes?? Your statements probably say it all.

Because in context, he just wasn't a HOF caliber player. Those numbers were in an era of huge numbers.

[Tedski_TX]

Originally Posted by Wite3

Begs the question...who are the three asses that left Griffey off and why?

Joshua

It was 3 guys who just can't stand players wearing their caps backward.

[ksabet]

Originally Posted by paul

Griffey and Piazza were elected. Griffey set a new record with 99% of the votes, breaking the record held by Tom Seaver. As a lifelong Seaver fan, I'm saddened.

why are you saddened?

I never really understood all the hoopla over %. You're in youre in right?

I think how many years it takes is more important to a players legacy.

[39special]

Originally Posted by ksabet

why are you saddened?

I never really understood all the hoopla over %. You're in youre in right?

I think how many years it takes is more important to a players legacy.

+1

[paul]

I'm saddened because it was just nice to be able to say that my favorite player held the all time record for HOF votes. No big deal though.

If I remember correctly, 4 guys didn't vote for Seaver. Two were protesting Pete Rose being left off the ballot. One was sick in the hospital and mismarked his ballot. And one always voted no for first year players just to ensure that no one ever was a unanimous selection. I wonder if there are similar stories for the three no votes for Griffey.

[Vintageclout]

Originally Posted by paul

I'm saddened because it was just nice to be able to say that my favorite player held the all time record for HOF votes. No big deal though.

If I remember correctly, 4 guys didn't vote for Seaver. Two were protesting Pete Rose being left off the ballot. One was sick in the hospital and mismarked his ballot. And one always voted no for first year players just to ensure that no one ever was a unanimous selection. I wonder if there are similar stories for the three no votes for Griffey.

Paul - never saw your 2nd post until now. It was 5 non-voters and I'm almost certain 3 boycotted the vote. I assumed the other 2 were non-first ballot voters, but as you stated, one might have misparked his ballot. Bottom line is with no Rose ban, Seaver would still stand at the top of the charts!

[Vintageclout]

Originally Posted by paul

Griffey and Piazza were elected. Griffey set a new record with 99% of the votes, breaking the record held by Tom Seaver. As a lifelong Seaver fan, I'm saddened.

Fyi Paul, the real sad thing is that of the 5 writers that didn't vote for Seaver, 3 of them totally boycotted the HOF voting that year because the HOF banned Pete Rose. Those 3 writers publicly stated they were offended the HOF chose to take the Rose situation completely out of the writers hands, thus choosing to submit empty ballots. In restrospect, only 2 writers left Seaver off the ballot because of not voting for "1st timers". Had there been NO Rose ban, Seaver would still own the highest %. Oh well....

JoeT

[JoeyFarino]

Originally Posted by paul

Griffey and Piazza were elected. Griffey set a new record with 99% of the votes, breaking the record held by Tom Seaver. As a lifelong Seaver fan, I'm saddened.

I guess im biased since im from seattle but griffey deserves 100% imo

[kamikidEFFL]

I grew up watching Griffey. I think it should of been 100% for sure

[timber63401]

Anybody that doesn't vote for someone just because they "never vote people on first ballot" deserve the honor of voting revoked.

[kmac32]

Originally Posted by paul

Griffey and Piazza were elected. Griffey set a new record with 99% of the votes, breaking the record held by Tom Seaver. As a lifelong Seaver fan, I'm saddened.

Griffey was a great player but he was no Tom Seaver when it comes to HOF players. Of course they weren't apples to apples as on was a pitcher and the other an outfielder so I guess there were other criteria to be evaluated.

[JoeyFarino]

Originally Posted by kmac32

Griffey was a great player but he was no Tom Seaver when it comes to HOF players. Of course they weren't apples to apples as on was a pitcher and the other an outfielder so I guess there were other criteria to be evaluated.

Ken Griffey Jr is right up there with seaver.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by JoeyFarino

Ken Griffey Jr is right up there with seaver.

I would say not quite. Seaver is a top 10 all time pitcher. Griffey is probably more in the top 25 than top 10 tier.

[Vintageclout]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I would say not quite. Seaver is a top 10 all time pitcher. Griffey is probably more in the top 25 than top 10 tier.

Peter - Seaver is top 7 WAR & JAWS with a "cheater" (Clemens) and two 19th century pitchers (Kid Nichols & Cy Young for half a career) rated above him. Thus, a top 4/5 pitcher of all time which Griffey cannot nearly boast among position players. Not taking anything away from Junior because he is one of my all-time favorites, but on a comparable basis, not as highly ranked as Tom Terrific.

JoeT

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Vintageclout

Peter - Seaver is top 7 WAR & JAWS with a "cheater" (Clemens) and two 19th century pitchers (Kid Nichols & Cy Young for half a career) rated above him. Thus, a top 4/5 pitcher of all time which Griffey cannot nearly boast among position players. Not taking anything away from Junior because he is one of my all-time favorites, but on a comparable basis, not as highly ranked as Tom Terrific.

JoeT

Exactly. Now if Junior didn't get hurt, who knows, but we can't rate guys on what might have been. It always amuses me to hear people who say Ryan was better than Seaver. Not.

[kamikidEFFL]

I think to many people get into the hof. Let's be honest I mean players who were good not great seem to always squeak in. I think it's overrated the hof now. I say you have 3 ballots to get in and if by then u don't well sorry you don't get in. Plain and simple.

[53Browns]

But speaking of Griffey Jr., IMHO it's a real shame that a century player like that had all of his early baseball cards created in a crap time of mass production. If he had played 100+ years ago can you imagine what a T206 high grade Griffey would go for?

[kmac32]

Originally Posted by JoeyFarino

Ken Griffey Jr is right up there with seaver.

Did not say that Griffey didn't belong in the Hall of Fame. What I basically said is that in his era, Seaver was in a league of his own. In the Griffey era, there were quite a few guys that could hit the ball and field so when you look at his peers, he was awesome but some other players had almost as much value. Also keep in mind that many of Griffey's peers were steroid users so it is harder to judge his class of position players. Seaver did not come from the steroid era so talent was easier to judge.

[AddieJoss]

Anyone have thoughts in Mussina jumping up in the voting to 43%? Think he eventually gets there?

[kmac32]

Originally Posted by AddieJoss

Anyone have thoughts in Mussina jumping up in the voting to 43%? Think he eventually gets there?

Lee Smith started there and his % has not change much and even declined a little. Great player but with the way HOF voters do things, I doubt if he will.