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  #1  
Old 08-14-2019, 07:34 AM
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Default Done buying high end cards

until something changes.

I'm not going to be the next guy to find out that the PSA 10 he paid $35,000 for was actually a PSA 7 last year and sold somewhere for $900. Nah. Not going there. Not going to be me. And frankly I don't have enough hours or the desire to do an archeological dive every time I want to buy a card.
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Old 08-14-2019, 07:47 AM
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Low grade cards are all the rage now....From our BST a few days ago....

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  #3  
Old 08-14-2019, 07:54 AM
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great card leon. as someone in the auto service biz that one really hits home.
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  #4  
Old 08-14-2019, 08:09 AM
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Is wheel (read “real”) alignment a necessary precursor to being “well centered”?

After all, linguistically there ain’t much difference between a car doctor and a card doctor.
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  #5  
Old 08-14-2019, 08:14 AM
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Ha, that is indeed an awesome card. Yes, unique and ungraded may be the place to go for piece of mind and some kicks.

I also wonder if the card grading shenanigans won't push up the memorabilia and photo part of the hobby. (Not that I am naive enough to imagine that's without fraud.)

Last edited by Snapolit1; 08-14-2019 at 08:15 AM.
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  #6  
Old 08-14-2019, 08:46 AM
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I always, since I rejoined the hobby back in 2016, wanted to have a 8,9 or 10 1952 Topps card just to have one but since this scandal broke that desire is all but gone.

Luckily for me, I guess, I was limited to funds and focused, mainly, on raw cards.

90-95 percent of my cards in my FlickR and Net54 links below are raw and I will most likely keep them that way and will most likely continue purchasing raw cards going forward.
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  #7  
Old 08-14-2019, 09:02 AM
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Default schumacher

thats a really nice schumacher
if anyone has other players let me know
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  #8  
Old 08-14-2019, 09:49 AM
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What's your definition of high end?



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  #9  
Old 08-14-2019, 10:13 AM
MULLINS5 MULLINS5 is offline
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I too am done. Been collecting raw since this mess was discovered and have been having more fun than I've had the past 20 years collecting graded.

The scandal has me honestly feeling like a fool for trusting PSA for as long as I did. I thought I was buying cards that were put under strict grading standards and accepted extremely long turnaround times because of that. I paid their grading prices not just because I thought my cards were put under these standards but ALL OTHERS were as well. I feel cheated (no pun intended Joe) and defrauded. Never, ever again.
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  #10  
Old 08-14-2019, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MULLINS5 View Post
I too am done. Been collecting raw since this mess was discovered and have been having more fun than I've had the past 20 years collecting graded.

The scandal has me honestly feeling like a fool for trusting PSA for as long as I did. I thought I was buying cards that were put under strict grading standards and accepted extremely long turnaround times because of that. I paid their grading prices not just because I thought my cards were put under these standards but ALL OTHERS were as well. I feel cheated (no pun intended Joe) and defrauded. Never, ever again.
What amazes me Patrick is that they missed COLOR TOUCH!!! There was a Clemente rookie that Moser actually applied green to the card!!! How in the hell was that missed!?!?!?!?! Not to mention all the trimming.
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  #11  
Old 08-14-2019, 10:40 AM
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I stand with the OP. in fact, I will not throw another pitch for the astros until they meet my salary demands.
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  #12  
Old 08-14-2019, 10:42 AM
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[quote=bobbyw8469;1908344]What amazes me Patrick is that they missed COLOR TOUCH!!! There was a Clemente rookie that Moser actually applied green to the card!!! How in the hell was that missed!?!?!?!?! Not to mention all the trimming.[/QUOTE

Cheats, Frauds, Card Doctors, manipulators, And Scams I was basically told to except all this it happens in every industry by another poster on a different thread. Check it out I didn’t know how to respond to it, I believe it was PW cc alive and doing well. So yeah I guess that’s the majority’s opinion on it it, sure as hell isn’t mine. Sucked all the fun out of this.
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  #13  
Old 08-14-2019, 10:46 AM
Ronnie73 Ronnie73 is offline
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I've always preferred a 5 dollar 1952 Topps over a 5 thousand dollar card of the same exact thing.
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  #14  
Old 08-14-2019, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by bobbyw8469 View Post
What amazes me Patrick is that they missed COLOR TOUCH!!! There was a Clemente rookie that Moser actually applied green to the card!!! How in the hell was that missed!?!?!?!?! Not to mention all the trimming.
The real question is not how they missed it but did they miss it? Stupidity is not as bad as duplicity, even if the results are the same.
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  #15  
Old 08-14-2019, 11:19 AM
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The real question is not how they missed it but did they miss it? Stupidity is not as bad as duplicity, even if the results are the same.
At this point, I truly wonder if I or some other ordinary collector had sent all these altered cards in, and not PWCC, whether they would have graded. And on another front I am highly skeptical that I or some other ordinary collector would get anywhere near the number of PSA 10s some of these high volume insiders seem to pull.
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 08-14-2019 at 11:19 AM.
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  #16  
Old 08-14-2019, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MULLINS5 View Post
I too am done. Been collecting raw since this mess was discovered and have been having more fun than I've had the past 20 years collecting graded.
This. A hobby is supposed to be fun. When crime and money suck the fun out of it, time to re-evaluate. I barely looked at a slabbed card at the National this year and it was so much fun to rely on my own assessments, not mention a hell of a lot easier to bring home my cards in mylar sleeves rather than slabs. You almost forget how nice a 33 Goudey looks in hand and not separated from you by a layer of plastic.
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Last edited by Exhibitman; 08-14-2019 at 11:37 AM.
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  #17  
Old 08-14-2019, 11:27 AM
Johnny630 Johnny630 is online now
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[quote=Peter_Spaeth;1908364]At this point, I truly wonder if I or some other ordinary collector had sent all these altered cards in, and not PWCC, whether they would have graded. And on another front I am highly skeptical that I or some other ordinary collector would get anywhere near the number of PSA 10s some of these high volume insiders seem to pull.[/QUOTE

Agree me too Corruption On Almost Every Level.......I've come to the conclusion, due to the Non PWCC numbers, that the buyers do not care. It's PSA all the way. You can only talk to a brick wall so long.....I don't see this negatively impacting sales.
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  #18  
Old 08-14-2019, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
At this point, I truly wonder if I or some other ordinary collector had sent all these altered cards in, and not PWCC, whether they would have graded. And on another front I am highly skeptical that I or some other ordinary collector would get anywhere near the number of PSA 10s some of these high volume insiders seem to pull.
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  #19  
Old 08-14-2019, 11:32 AM
Ronnie73 Ronnie73 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
At this point, I truly wonder if I or some other ordinary collector had sent all these altered cards in, and not PWCC, whether they would have graded. And on another front I am highly skeptical that I or some other ordinary collector would get anywhere near the number of PSA 10s some of these high volume insiders seem to pull.
I've always wondered the same thing. Like, how does it even work? How does 4 Sharp Corners get all these 10's? Do they just send in 5000 count boxes and PSA only grades the 10's? Do they get charged for the cards that don't grade? Then they sell many of these 10's for a couple dollars over what it would cost me to grade them. Is there discount that big? I'd sure like to know how it's done.
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  #20  
Old 08-14-2019, 11:35 AM
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I think that it's still safe to buy high grade cards that have solid provenance. But there are only so many of those cards to be had...

Also, wondering if anyone has a timelframe on the cards that are currently in question? Graded in the past year or two, maybe three? Maybe it's safe to still buy high graded cards in older holders?
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  #21  
Old 08-14-2019, 11:38 AM
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From what I understand this has been going on for many years. There are no safe cards except the ones you submitted or that were submitted by a trusted colleague. I sent in a lot of cards for PSA and SGC grading pre-2008; I have the records of all of them and if I ever sell out my collection those cards will be presented as such.
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Last edited by Exhibitman; 08-14-2019 at 11:43 AM.
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  #22  
Old 08-14-2019, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by LincolnVT View Post
I think that it's still safe to buy high grade cards that have solid provenance. But there are only so many of those cards to be had...

Also, wondering if anyone has a timelframe on the cards that are currently in question? Graded in the past year or two, maybe three? Maybe it's safe to still buy high graded cards in older holders?
Oh God no many elite card doctors have been on the scene since the early 90s.
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  #23  
Old 08-14-2019, 11:46 AM
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I think it just might be more lucrative to be a card doctor than a medical doctor.
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  #24  
Old 08-14-2019, 11:52 AM
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I think it just might be more lucrative to be a card doctor than a medical doctor.
Ha-Ha!!! With no repurcussions! Medical doctors have to worry about malpractice suits. These guys are performing at will.
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  #25  
Old 08-14-2019, 03:47 PM
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The polar ends of this hobby that always make shake my head:

1. The cards were made for the most part for kids. Now, unless you were an obsessive-compulsive, most kids flipped, dinged and beat up the cards.

2. The adults who want pristine to bring back memories or satisfy their greed.

These ideas have one incredible chasm between them.

Last edited by Brian Van Horn; 08-14-2019 at 03:55 PM.
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  #26  
Old 08-14-2019, 03:57 PM
Promethius88 Promethius88 is offline
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Originally Posted by Snapolit1 View Post
until something changes.

I'm not going to be the next guy to find out that the PSA 10 he paid $35,000 for was actually a PSA 7 last year and sold somewhere for $900. Nah. Not going there. Not going to be me. And frankly I don't have enough hours or the desire to do an archeological dive every time I want to buy a card.
Good luck in whatever hobby you choose next!
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  #27  
Old 08-14-2019, 04:01 PM
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I collect raw, but may put on clothes this Fall.
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  #28  
Old 08-14-2019, 04:10 PM
Brian Van Horn Brian Van Horn is offline
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I collect raw, but may put on clothes this Fall.
This would be a card that would never be on my want list.
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  #29  
Old 08-14-2019, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
And on another front I am highly skeptical that I or some other ordinary collector would get anywhere near the number of PSA 10s some of these high volume insiders seem to pull.
I've thought the same thing ever since I got back into collecting in 2006. The auction houses sure seem to be able to get higher grades on the cards they submit. People on the board have suggested many times that they were being given special treatment since they had the largest card submissions. That always struck me as an admission that we all believed the system was rigged against the average collector/submitter.
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  #30  
Old 08-14-2019, 04:35 PM
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Your a big boy and its your decision...Glad you shared.
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  #31  
Old 08-14-2019, 05:12 PM
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I always stuck to AUTH or 1s or 2s, so none of this card doctoring ever mattered to me. I am and always have been, in it for the collecting aspect. The greed that made everyone chase 8s, 9s and 10s has finally caught up to some folks!! It's now time to come back to earth with us bottom feeders, and let the hobby steer back into collecting mode, rather than investment portfolio mode.
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Old 08-14-2019, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
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I collect raw, but may put on clothes this Fall.
Ufta...
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  #33  
Old 08-14-2019, 07:28 PM
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Default Raw

I'll stay raw thank you..
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  #34  
Old 08-14-2019, 08:32 PM
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"I always stuck to AUTH or 1s or 2s, so none of this card doctoring ever mattered to me."

When I discovered this site 15 or so years ago, I saw that many board members were warning about the high number of trimmed cards in high-end holders. I made the choice back then to stick to cards that look nice, but grade poorly.
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  #35  
Old 08-14-2019, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
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I'll stay raw thank you..
Very nice!

Here's a few of mine. Some were given to me by my father and some I purchased.
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File Type: jpg Faye Throneberry.jpg (71.4 KB, 353 views)
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  #36  
Old 08-15-2019, 05:38 AM
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How many vintage PSA 10s were you buying before the scandal broke?
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  #37  
Old 08-15-2019, 06:15 AM
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How many vintage PSA 10s were you buying before the scandal broke?
Very few on vintage side. But have shelled out real money for some 9s and 8s.
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  #38  
Old 08-15-2019, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie73 View Post
I've always wondered the same thing. Like, how does it even work? How does 4 Sharp Corners get all these 10's? Do they just send in 5000 count boxes and PSA only grades the 10's? Do they get charged for the cards that don't grade? Then they sell many of these 10's for a couple dollars over what it would cost me to grade them. Is there discount that big? I'd sure like to know how it's done.
If you were PSA and just starting out wouldn't it make sense to just grade a bunch of cards you got yourself just so you could increase the number of graded cards in the market place? You wouldn't have wanted (or needed) to wait for customers to get your product out there. Because, isn't the goal of PSA to have every card ever made entombed in plastic? I always assumed that's what 4 Sharp Corners was - basically a branch of PSA.
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