Joe Mauer announces retirement: HOF? Make Your Case:

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

I think Mauer is deserving. Maybe not first ballot, though. I mean, he's not a closer.

Come on, the guy was the best pure hitter in baseball for eight years. Except for his injury-riddled 2011 when he hit .287, and a .293 season in 2007, he hit .300 every year between 2006 and 2013, hitting .328 for those 1,012 games. In those seasons, he hit .347, .328, .365, .327, .319, .324.

Again, this is a catcher doing this. And he wasn't a bad defender, winning three Gold Gloves. So he didn't hit a lot of home runs. You had a catcher, the premium position in baseball, the hardest one to produce offense at a high level, hitting .328 in his prime. Why is he not a Hall of Famer, yet Tony Gwynn, widely considered one of the best pure hitters of the modern era, if not the best, is? Gwynn hit .338. Didn't hit for power. Stole bases early, but that stopped when he hit 30.

Compare their career slash lines

Mauer .306 AVG/.388 OBP/.439 SLG/.827 OPS 124 OPS+
Gwynn .338 AVG/.388 OBP/.459 SLG/.847 OPS 132 OPS+

Gwynn's average for his career is much higher. Yet their on base percentage is identical.

Now, look at Mauer's prime.

'04-'13 .323 AVG/.405 OBP/.468 SLG/.873 OPS 135 OPS+

That's across 5,006 PAs. A catcher with 35% above league average OPS.

Why is there any question as to his worthiness?

It is not really fare to compare Joe to Tony. Joe had his prime when he was young. Tony had his prime years from age 33 to 37 like normal players.

[Mark17]

The Tony to compare Mauer's stats to is Oliva. Both lifetime Twins, 15 year careers, batting titles, gold gloves, 5 times Sporting News All Stars, injuries. Mauer was a catcher, but Oliva hit for more power while often protecting Killebrew in the lineup.

Of the two I would take Oliva, the best pure hitter of his day. Not saying Oliva is therefore a HOFer, just saying, if one goes in, so should the other as they are about equally deserving or undeserving.

… Oliva Mauer
AB 6301 6930
R 870 1018
H 1917 2123
2B 329 428
3B 48 30
HR 220 143
RBI 947 923
AVG .304 .306
OBP .353 .388
SLG .476 .439

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bnorth

It is not really fare to compare Joe to Tony. Joe had his prime when he was young. Tony had his prime years from age 33 to 37 like normal players.

He got better as he studied more.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

He got better as he studied more.

Mr Bonds must have studied a lot too.

[orioles93]

Personally I think Mauer gets in eventually, and is deserving. But just curious on everyone's thoughts on Mauer's career versus the likes of Ted Simmons, Lance Parrish, and Victor Martinez.

[Baseballcrazy62]

How about Bill Freehan? 11x All-Star and 5x Gold Glove winner plus a World Series Ring. Never understood how little he is appreciated by the voters.

[Bagwell-1994]

Originally Posted by orioles93

Personally I think Mauer gets in eventually, and is deserving. But just curious on everyone's thoughts on Mauer's career versus the likes of Ted Simmons, Lance Parrish, and Victor Martinez.

Simmons was an 8-time all-star with highest MVP finish at 6th and never led the league in any significant category, 4 seasons over 5 WAR (50.3 total BWAR). Parrish was also an 8-time all-star but similarly highest MVP finish was 9th and never led the league in anything notable, 1 season at 5 WAR (39.5 total BWAR). Martinez was a 5-time all-star with a 2nd place MVP finish in 2014, only ever led the league in OBP & OPS in 2014 and has the lowest career WAR (32.2) of anyone in the conversation, 2 seasons above 5 WAR.

Mauer was a 5-time all-star, MVP winner in 2009, 3 time batting champ: 2006/2008/2009, led league in OBP/SLG/OPS/OPS+ in 2009, led league in OBP in 2012. Had 5 seasons over 5 WAR (55.1 total BWAR).

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/jaws_C.shtml

This table at BBreference lists Mauer as the 7th best catcher ever regarding WAR and JAWS as performance measuring metrics. Admittedly Ted Simmons is 10th best ever per the chart, but as stated above, he lacks the league-leading stats/MVP that Mauer accumulated.

I'm not sure I would even vote for Mauer for HOF due to his relatively low counting stats in areas ("only" 2123 hits) but his .306/.388/.439 career slash line is impressive. Combine that with his stellar MVP season, 3 batting titles and 7th place position in WAR/JAWS all-time among catchers and I think he's a sure-fire HOFer at some point.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by orioles93

Personally I think Mauer gets in eventually, and is deserving. But just curious on everyone's thoughts on Mauer's career versus the likes of Ted Simmons, Lance Parrish, and Victor Martinez.

I'm not a huge Mauer fan but I would rate him ahead of those guys. As for Freehan he definitely was the best catcher in the AL for a long stretch but his absolute numbers aren't that great IMO.

[packs]

Mauer wasn't good enough for long enough. I really don't see how he can be looked at any differently than Nomar, who I think had a much better career and isn't talked about at all. Mauer played catcher briefly and he was briefly very good at what he did. But so are a lot of people. His catching record for batting titles doesn't mean much to me at all. Winning three titles at any position isn't a HOF-worthy stat (ask Bill Madlock, who won 4 or Larry Walker and Tony Oliva who won 3 and are still out).

[Yastrzemski Sports]

When we discuss a HOF candidate the player is compared to others at his position. Mauer played the majority of his career at catcher so any comparisons have to be done among other catchers. Mauers stats are 2123 hits, .306 ba, 923 rbi, 1018 runs along with 6 as, 3 gg and an mvp award. First, there are 4 other catchers who won mvp. 3 are in the hof and the other is Thurman Munson who would be and probably should be. Among hof catchers, His hit total is 3rd behind Berra and Fisk and his BA is 3rd behind Cochrane and Dickey (tied with Lombardi). His run and rbi totals are in the range of other hof catchers. His stats are good enough compared to others already there. The mvp award is huge and weighs heavily for a candidate because it shows dominance. Not every player who wins an mvp will be in the hof but for many it will make the difference to put someone in. When I put all of the factors together I think Mauer will be a HOF member as one of the best catchers of his generation whose numbers put him among the all time greats.