Would you buy a 1933 Goudey Ruth Raw?

[parkplace33]

Title says it all, but I know Net54 loves specifics , so I will set the stage.

You are at a card show and a reputable dealer has a raw 1933 Goudey Ruth for sale. Card appears VG and does not look altered upon examination. Price is very fair for the card. Dealer says they will back up that it is real. Would you buy the card? Love to see your reason (s) on why you selected your poll answer.

I posed this exact question with some friends over the weekend, love to see Net54's take. I will give their takes in a few days.

[packs]

Not to throw in a variable but if I'm at a large show and there's a TPG onsite, I'd be more inclined to make a deal dependent on the review for authenticity.

[bnorth]

Absolutely and if I wasn't comfortable doing so I would stop collecting. I understand a new collector needing some help. A raw card has no more of a chance being altered than a slabbed card. In the real world it probably has a way less chance of being altered as they are altered to get into slabs.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Absolutely and if I wasn't comfortable doing so I would stop collecting. I understand a new collector needing some help. A raw card has no more of a chance being altered than a slabbed card. In the real world it probably has a way less chance of being altered as they are altered to get into slabs.

I was under the impression that most of the trimmed pre-war cards were trimmed before any TPGs existed. Is that not correct?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

I was under the impression that most of the trimmed pre-war cards were trimmed before any TPGs existed. Is that not correct?

Massive amounts of trimmed cards in PSA/SGC/etc. slabs have been outed as trimmed the last few years. Trimming did not stop with the advent of graders who seem unable or unwilling to detect a halfway decent trim job.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

Massive amounts of trimmed cards in PSA/SGC/etc. slabs have been outed as trimmed the last few years. Trimming did not stop with the advent of graders who seem unable or unwilling to detect a halfway decent trim job.

I think far far more have been trimmed post TPG. 30 plus years and counting, and God only knows how many of these scumbags (I mean leading hobby figures) are still out there every day.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Absolutely and if I wasn't comfortable doing so I would stop collecting. I understand a new collector needing some help. A raw card has no more of a chance being altered than a slabbed card. In the real world it probably has a way less chance of being altered as they are altered to get into slabs.

+1 (in terms of altered cards residing in numbered slabs).

Also... Why are people putting so much stock in TPGs? Do they not pay attention, or are they so insecure that they need someone else to tell them what their own eyes should easily perceive?

Take this 1956 Jackie Card with its mangled top border and multiple creases. Does anyone really think this card is a "5.5"? I prefer to trust my own judgement...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/28583419175...Bk9SR7LIgc3lYw

[Lorewalker]

I answered yes based on the conditions of the sale. And as was stated a few posts above, I think most of us think we are great at catching alterations but I would wager (in honor of snowman) that most who think they can spot alterations would not do well on a grading test.

[pclpads]

Only if I was drunk, drugged and blindfolded.

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by perezfan

+1 (in terms of altered cards residing in numbered slabs).

Also... Why are people putting so much stock in TPGs? Do they not pay attention, or are they so insecure that they need someone else to tell them what their own eyes should easily perceive?

Take this 1956 Jackie Card with its mangled top border and multiple creases. Does anyone really think this card is a "5.5"? I prefer to trust my own judgement...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/28583419175...Bk9SR7LIgc3lYw

Knew it would be an old label before looking.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Carter08

Knew it would be an old label before looking.

"We stand by the grade"

[packs]

Originally Posted by perezfan

+1 (in terms of altered cards residing in numbered slabs).

Also... Why are people putting so much stock in TPGs? Do they not pay attention, or are they so insecure that they need someone else to tell them what their own eyes should easily perceive?

Take this 1956 Jackie Card with its mangled top border and multiple creases. Does anyone really think this card is a "5.5"? I prefer to trust my own judgement...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/28583419175...Bk9SR7LIgc3lYw

Lawyers don't represent themselves despite their grasp of law. It's because you might be seeing what you want to see.

[soxinseven]

I would definitely buy a raw Goudey Ruth as I've handled them over the years. I bought a collection a few years back that had a Goudey and two Sport Kings Ruth cards in it along with a bunch of other Goudeys.

[Bored5000]

For what a 1933 Goudey Ruth costs, I would not buy one raw. Sure, it could be ok. But chances are high that there is a reason why a card of that value is not in a holder.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

For what a 1933 Goudey Ruth costs, I would not buy one raw. Sure, it could be ok. But chances are high that there is a reason why a card of that value is not in a holder.

He said it's bought from a reputable dealer that will back it up if it's "real." Unless, you weren't exactly quoting him?

I would clarify if it's altered or not real, will he give a refund?

if he says yes, then of course I would buy it. If he says no, then I wouldn't buy it. Otherwise, I voted yes...
.

[mrreality68]

I would not buy raw at those potential price points.

I am not skilled enough to judge what looks at different levels of the grading and would be comfortable it was a real card but unsure as I value as a result

[JustinD]

I have more than enough trust in myself to buy a raw card.

I would pay a fair raw price if I was in person and can handle the card. If it's online, I would possibly lower an offer for risk of trimming or coloring dependent on what I see.

[jmhumr]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

I would not buy raw at those potential price points.

I am not skilled enough to judge what looks at different levels of the grading and would be comfortable it was a real card but unsure as I value as a result

Same.

Not only is it too much of a gamble for me at that price point, but I'd be skeptical of someone selling a raw card in that range when they could easily have it graded and secure higher value and avoid any headaches. There are certainly times when a raw might intrigue me (estate sale, etc.), but without a compelling justification to ease my mind, I'd walk away.

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by packs

Not to throw in a variable but if I'm at a large show and there's a TPG onsite, I'd be more inclined to make a deal dependent on the review for authenticity.

Kind of agree with Packs on this one.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by packs

Not to throw in a variable but if I'm at a large show and there's a TPG onsite, I'd be more inclined to make a deal dependent on the review for authenticity.

I trust my own judgement more than that of the opinion sellers, and I wouldn't charge myself as much.

[Johnny630]

Sadly The consensus by the market movers, the ones who set the going market price bidding in auctions seems to be once the card is in a PSA or SGC Holder with a number grade It doesn’t matter what has been done to the card. It’s in a holder now blessed by PSA or SGC and is unaltered and authentic with a number grade. It is now highly liquid and has a greater resale value now and down the road.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Sadly The consensus by the market movers, the ones who set the going market price bidding in auctions seems to be once the card is in a PSA or SGC Holder with a number grade It doesn’t matter what has been done to the card. It’s in a holder now blessed by PSA or SGC and is unaltered and authentic with a number grade. It is now highly liquid and has a greater resale value now and down the road.

Yes, as I never tire of saying, the flip is now the commodity.

[The Detroit Collector]

I would get a background on the card. How it was obtained by the dealer. I most likely would buy it raw, with a thorough review of the card. I'm sure they would back it up for being real, but altered is a different story, so I would really review the card before buying.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Yes, as I never tire of saying, the flip is now the commodity.

That's exactly what it is…

[refz]

I voted yes.

I have no problems buying raw period. Big ticket items in person viewing is a must, small time online browsing is ok. We should be well educated and evolved by now to spot all major imperfections, alterations, fakes etc. and after all that if your still pressed to get it graded just submit it… next

[CardPadre]

So once we’re at the point where the paper stock and printing is a perfect replica (which will never happen) do the cards need to display 90+ years of authentic looking wear or does everyone just swoon over all these new-to-the-hobby 8s and 9s?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CardPadre

So once we’re at the point where the paper stock and printing is a perfect replica (which will never happen) do the cards need to display 90+ years of authentic looking wear or does everyone just swoon over all these new-to-the-hobby 8s and 9s?

I suspect they'll swoon as they do now over the trimmed ones.

[Exhibitman]

Sure, in person so I can evaluate it. Which is why my go bag for shows has a 30x loupe, 100x lit microscope, black light and strong flashlight.