T207s with brown printing

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Posted By: Bruce Babcock

What are the opinons about T207s with brown printing on the backs? I have seen a couple of these. This Cole with a Recruit Factory #240 back and also a Hartley with an Anon. Fact #3 back. Is this really brown ink or faded black ink? How uncommom are these backs? Do they command a premium? Any thoughts or experiences would be appreciated.

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Posted By: barrysloate

They are definitely a distinct color and worth a premium, but I don't think they have as of yet an established price.

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Posted By: paulstratton

I have 0 out of 102 total. Where's Tbob?

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Posted By: barrysloate

He's MIA for now.

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Posted By: paulstratton

Now I remember Barry. Come back tbob!

I have quite a few which sort of look brown but they are just faded. I don't think I would pay a premium for them, though some might.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Bruce's example doesn't look faded. It seems consistent with the color difference between the brown and black T206 Lenox, and those are considered distinct backs.

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Posted By: jay behrens

The brown ink back is a variation that I brought to everyone's attention a few years ago on this board. My scans were not as good as the ones here and got the standard "It's just faded" response. It's a card you really need to have in hand and have other t207s to compare with. When you do, the difference is very obvious. At the 2005 National in Chicago I showed my card to numerous people including Scott at SGC. They said it was a legit variation and were more than happy to slab it as such. I know of one other t207 that ahs been slabbed as such. Not sure as to where they belong on the rarity scale since I don't have a lot t207s and haven't handle many in recent years to make a good call.

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: Patrick McHugh

Jay did indeed bring this issue to light and he is right in that you really need to hold a brown back next to a black to see them. I know of 3 t207 brown backs and Bruce now yours is the 4th. All of the ones i know of are recruit back class. Another collector has told me he has a brown back anon. dist 3 la. card which if so would bring the total i know of now to 6 if the hartley is also brown backed. These are very rare thus far and no real pricing has been established. Could there be more? Yes but who knows how many. I do not think that black print fades to brown but if i'm wrong i stand corrected. The t207 set presents many many collecting challenges and this is another mystery just starting to unfold!

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Posted By: Mike Campbell

I own a 207 Brown background Buck Weaver. Graded 5 by PSA and is labeled Brown background. I hadn't even noticed that it said "brown background". God, how observant am I ? I have owned it for 10 or 15 years. i guess I should take inventory. It is an anonymous back also. Awesome card. I will never sell it. Buck is one of my guys.....

Not faded. A true brown color. It hasn't seen light for 10 or 15 years. Seriously though.....brown. No question. If I knew how to scan things, I would show you all.

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Posted By: john/z28jd

Mike i believe in your case its just labeled brown background because thats sometimes how the T207 cards are referred to because of their background on the card front,not the printing on the back

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Posted By: Mike Campbell

Good point John. I guess I need more coffee. I said I hadn't seen this card for quite some time. But......the "back" printing is still brown none the less. Sorry for the erroneous previous message. I appreciate the slap to my groggy noggin'. But as stated brown printing on back....

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Posted By: jay behrens

If it is a brown ink back, SGC will bemore than willing to relabel it, but it will probably cost you the normal reholder fee.

I'm just surprised no one had noticed this before me becuase it really jumped out at me when I got the card and put it with my other t207s. They are either exceedingly rare, or no one really bothered to take note.

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: Mike Campbell

Good idea Jay, maybe I will submit it again. My eyesight is 20/20, and the printing on the back is clearly brown. of that there is no doubt. I bought this so long ago. I no longer collect 207's, so what you are telling me is that PSA will relable it "Brown printing on the back?" or some such verbage?

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Posted By: jay behrens

I have no idea if PSA will, but SGC will do it. On the third line of the slab mine reads "brown back".



Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: Bruce Babcock

I've received an email from another collector who has two more - Gainor and Johnson, with Recruit backs, graded by SGC and labeled "Brown Back." "Brown printing" would be clearer, IMO.

I bought the Cole from a collector who was very active in the 70s and earlier who said that the brown printing backs were known back then, were scare, but carried no premium. Apparently they still don't.

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Posted By: jay behrens

no one has bother to promote them. Look at what the promotion of the all the new back variation for t206s has done. In the 80s, no cared about what factory a Piedmont or Sweet Cap came from. Now look. The brown backs will eventually have their day too. It may take loger since few people collect the set.

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: paulstratton

I'm wondering if there is any correlation between the front border color and the brown back. I know the Milan is a grey border front and I think the Cole is too(don't have one in hand). Does anyone have a sepia border front with a brown back?

Gainor, Johnson and Ainsmith are all grey border fronts too, right?