When a hobby turns into a sick obsession

[Archive]

Posted By: John S

I have been sitting on this for two weeks because I know that that it has the potential to raise some conflict. I just felt that it needed to be told. A friend of mine had listed some high grade (PSA) cards on eBay from a set that is familiar to all of us (He is a very private person and I am being intentionally ambiguous). One card was the highest ever graded. Within the first twelve hours he had received three offers from individuals to end the auction for the highest graded card early. All of them identified themselves as high profile collectors that were interested in improving their registries. My friend respectfully declined. One of the individuals continued to harass by email making offers that DECREASED each time. Three days before the auction closed he emailed my friend asking him to do a search for the particular issue that he was selling. The individual had listed three other cards from this set, all high grades from PSA, ending within ten minutes of my friend's auction. He made a final decreased offer. The only satisfying news is that he did not win the auction; but his attempt to increase supply to drive down the prices of my friend's cards is an extreme case of what the hobby has become for some individuals. I am not passing judgement because I too catch myself getting competitive during auctions. I have to remind myself that these little pieces of cardboard are the same things that I used to fling across the room thirty years ago. This was just an extreme story. Before I conclude, let me offer this disclaimer: I am not passing judgement regarding graded versus non-graded, set registries, collecting versus investing, etc., etc., ad nauseum.

[Archive]

Posted By: Richard Simon

Why didn't your friend just put a block on the harasser's e mail address?

--

I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
Unknown author
--
We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.
No retreat baby, no surrender.
The Boss

[Archive]

Posted By: John S

Old collector...new to eBay. I asked him this as well. He gave the potential buyer his personal information including his telephone number after the first exchange. By the way, I recognized the individual's eBay ID, but do not believe that he posts on the board.

[Archive]

Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Well the decreasing offer buyer who listed competing cards to screw up the seller... he's an ass. That is my answer to your question of what I think about it.

[Archive]

Posted By: Chris Mc

Your friend could report the offensive bidder for his offer to buy off Ebay if he saved the e-mails. Wording is everything. For future listings I would state in the auction information that I would not end early.

[Archive]

Posted By: Josh K.

Just curious, did your friend get the price he was hoping for or did the other seller/offeror's listings end up hurting him?

[Archive]

Posted By: John S

I know that the final price was higher than the original offer. The harassing individual was one of the underbidders. Overall my friend was relatively happy with the financial return, but was a little soured by the manipulative and bullying actions that I mentioned. I am trying to convince him to start posting; but as I stated before he is a very private individual. Time to go hide Easter baskets.

[Archive]

Posted By: Tim Newcomb

Now, I know there are analogous problems with ungraded cards called "Near-Mint" etc., and I don't mean to imply that everyone in set registries would do such a thing as this creep did.

But this horror story seems to me to exemplify everything that's wrong with the idea of competitive registries.

We see all kinds of slamming of ungraded cards and their advocates on this board, but anytime something like this shows up, the competitive types check out but quick. I'd like to hear from one of them about John's post, just to hear how it fits into their sense of how registries enhance the hobby--or how such registry excesses could be avoided or minimized. In other words, I make this post not primarily to confront but to learn (really, I do)--

Regards to all,

Tim

[Archive]

Posted By: martindl

To each their own.

I don't know why the 'registry guys' should have to defend why they participate, nor do i think they should have to try to explain how it "enhances the hobby".

I also don't think that this one particular incident, terrible as it is, should be used to castigate a whole group of collectors and their purpose/method for collecting. I don't get it either, but i'm sure there are millions out there who don't get me too, so i'm o.k. with it.

Why can't we all just be happy with knowing that different things float different peoples' boats versus trying to get people to explain why they do the things they do - be it registry participation, collecting whatever people collect (multiples of the same card, printing errors, shiny crap, etc.)

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Tim, here's a quick story about how I turned from being one of those in the ungraded camp to the PSA registry set: I was finishing putting together a 1956 Topps ungraded set in Near Mint or better variety when I received a Mantle card that I paid over $800 for ungraded. It was the only card of the set that I decided to send to PSA for grading and it came back as trimmed. This is nothing I could have figured out by a scan, looking back. I asked the seller for a refund and he refused telling me that there is no way the card was short. The ahole said everything he could in refusing me a refund - even a partial refund - other than telling me that his grandfather was Joe Topps and he was there when the card was printed. I measured it, of course, and it was clearly short. After months of dealing with Amex and Paypal, I finally got my money back but I refused to ever buy another expensive ungraded card again. Even if by chance a graded card I purchased was trimmed at least the card would be saleable and liquid - plus, I'd have PSA's backing that the card was not trimmed. Think the putz that sold me that Mantle was any better than the guy that is the topic of this thread?

[Archive]

Posted By: jay behrens

Martin, people like to know why people do what they do so they can better understand, rather than make blind, prejudiced assumptions about them. I'd be very interested in hearing the answers to Tim's questions because I too find it interesting that the registry advocates run and hide when bad things like this are brought up.

Jeff, Tim's question isn't about whether people should slab or not and the reasons for it. He, and many like myself, want to know what makes people want to compete on the registry and why it would drive people to do the things like what occured to start this thread. If getting an untrimmed, unaltered card is your for a raw set, just do like Julie, buy them slabbed and then crack them out.

Jay




I like to sit outside, drink beer and yell at people. If I did this at home, I would be arrested. So, I go to baseball games and fit right in.

[Archive]

Posted By: cmoking

yes, all of the owners of the 20,000 PSA registry sets are crazy aholes like this guy. you guys finally figured it out, congrats.

[Archive]

Posted By: jay behrens

well, that certainly doesn't help the discussion any. All it does further the stereotype that people have about registry people. How about contributing something positive instead? Or maybe you really are a registry arse.

Jay

I like to sit outside, drink beer and yell at people. If I did this at home, I would be arrested. So, I go to baseball games and fit right in.

[Archive]

Posted By: cmoking

I think my post contributed positively to this thread as much as yours did.

[Archive]

Posted By: jay behrens

You are part of registry. I'm not, so I can't add any insight into why people on the registry do what they do. You have acted in exactly the way Tim said most registry people react when confronted with the dark side of the registry. Why not speak up and provide some insight to the ignorant huddled masses, like myself? I'd love to hear what you have to say, but if you want to come across as an arse, then that's your choice and you just feed the fire for people that dislike registry people.

Jay

I like to sit outside, drink beer and yell at people. If I did this at home, I would be arrested. So, I go to baseball games and fit right in.

[Archive]

Posted By: cmoking

if a guy stabs another guy with a knife, does that mean all knife-users must come and explain to you the reasons why they use knives or the mentality that leads to people to stab others with knives?

don't you understand that the guy mentioned in the original post is just a screwed up miserable person? the fact that he is in the registry or not does not make him that way.

[Archive]

Posted By: jay behrens

Why not go back to Tim's post and try answering the questions he asked? They are good questions that have nothing to do with people stabbing each other.

Jay

I like to sit outside, drink beer and yell at people. If I did this at home, I would be arrested. So, I go to baseball games and fit right in.

[Archive]

Posted By: cmoking

I'll let others elaborate. My involvement in this thread won't help anyone - you, Tim or me. So I'll bow out and get out of the way.

[Archive]

Posted By: martindl

Jay, Theres already been a whole other thread re. why people participate in the registry so i doubt that anyone repeating what they've already said is going to improve anyone elses understanding. This doesn't seem to be about understanding, its about disagreement.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Jay, I'd love an answer to this following question: why would one of the unslabbed guys sell me a trimmed, expensive card and then not take the card back for a refund when he was found out? I suspect it was because he was a greedy criminal. Are all you unslabbed guys greedy criminals too? Is that why you're against slabbed cards?

See, what you guys don't seem to appreciate - and it honestly astounds me - is that every single person who is for slabbed cards was once someone who wanted to simply collect raw cards. We all wanted that because that is the way we collected as kids. Once we started spending more money on cards, however, and found out that an advertised NM card was really Ex at best, and once we purchased that first trimmed card and lost money, we decided to take some of the risk and seller greed out of the equation. That's it, plain and simple. Why on earth does this have to always revert to a religious discussion when it really is all about dollars and cents and human nature being what it is?

[Archive]

Posted By: jay behrens

Jeff, I am not anti-slab. Never have been, never will be. The discussion here is about the mentality behind being compative on the set registry. The one person that responded that could have actually provided some good insight decided to perpetuate the stereotype of what most of us have about people that compete on the set registry.

On a general note, for some reason, this seems to be the week to post responses in threads that have nothing to do with the topic at hand. A lot of bickering going on in most these thread wouldn't exist if people could stay on topic instead of going off on a tangent.

Jay

I like to sit outside, drink beer and yell at people. If I did this at home, I would be arrested. So, I go to baseball games and fit right in.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Jay, you mean like when you started the thread asking about the mindset of a set registrant and then 30 posts later claimed that the 'jest' of the thread was about a mysterious PSA 6 card with paper loss? Or when you claimed that the market system and capitalism were destroying our fine country?

I hate when threads lose focus as well.

[Archive]

Posted By: HandsAtNeck

I am against slabs, and I have no dishonest intent in my transactions, actually all that I seek is to get what I pay for. I rarely sell cards.

I do not like slabs because:

They are bulky.
I do not accept the grading company's opinion on the relative merits of some cards.
I do not wish to pay extra for this, because I do not seek slabs to start with.
Slabs prevent my display of my cards the way I prefer.
I prefer to not be isolated from my cards. I recognize that I will damage some.
My cards are not typically high grade. So they are not very sensitive to damage.
Lotsa other reasons, which I don't remember.

Because Im thinking that the main reason that I like slabs is that they make great coasters to protect my tables - and quite fun conversation pieces. If they were water tight, I'd buy a few just for that reason.

[Archive]

Posted By: Bill Kasel

How about some fresh insight into the real purpose of the original post? Or would that make too much sense?

The guy who put up similar cards to drive the price down is a jacka$$ of biblical proportions. It is not an indictment on Registry collectors, or anyone else except for the piece of crap baby who didn't get his way.

I'm sorry your friend had to go through that.

There are several other message strings where you can bitch and moan about whether partaking in the registry is evil or not. Why not redirect your discussions there?

Bill

My personal collection - http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f176/fkm_bky/

[Archive]

Posted By: Brian

Agreed Bill. Thanks.

[Archive]

Posted By: jay behrens

I've never talked about PSA6 with paper loss. That was my brother. I also did not claim that my diatribe about about American economics was the gist of a thread, I said that is what MY origianl posting was about when somene misinterpreted what I wrote about.

Jay

I like to sit outside, drink beer and yell at people. If I did this at home, I would be arrested. So, I go to baseball games and fit right in.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Jay, sorry to confuse Lee's post with yours. I hated as a kid when teachers would confuse me with my brother. Lee, if you're reading, feel free to substitute your name for Jay's during my rants.

Oh, and for the Army of Liberated Cards that is reading this thread, here's what the Registry guys say at every one of our weekly meetings in which we discuss conquering the world: "First you get the Plastic, then you get the Power then you get the Women." It's worked well for us thus far.

[Archive]

Posted By: HandsAtNeck

Yes Jeff, but it is better when you start wit da wimmen. Then you can leave the ones who you need the plastic for, to the slabheads.

[Archive]

Posted By: Bob

John- I wish you would post the name of the jerk who harassed your friend and also the card in question, but if you do not want to, I respect your decision.
As far as never buying ungraded expensive cards, I have been shafted in the past also Jeff but too often there are tough, scarce or just plain nice ungraded cards which are desirable and you just take a chance. I recently bought a $400 vg to vgex card raw and will be submitting it for slabbing because I want it protected and most of the cards in that set which I am collecting are already slabbed. I know sometimes it seems like Russian roulette with raw cards but...
Bob

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Bob, you're right - by ignoring raw cards, you possibly miss out, period. And I agree with what you said about outing the jerk that caused this thread to be started. If it's true there's no libel here, so why not post it?

[Archive]

Posted By: dd

Happens all the time in real estate, commodities,,,,busines....