1938 Goudey - authentic??

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Posted By: bullrat

A friend brought this card to me to find out what it was. Have little knowledge of Goudeys - but noticed immediately that the edges were wavy, and could see a line along the right side plus very stained. Checked into Goudeys found out was 1938 Heads Up supposedly number 279. However, the back has a Coke advertisement, was not the normal back. Is this a reprint, salesmans sample, Goudey produced advertisement for Coke or what? Card stock is thick. Any help appreciated.

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

I've handled a thousand or so '38 Goudeys, and have never seen one like this, either reprint or authentic.

Tough to tell from the scan whether the stock is authentic. Do you have the ability to make a better scan?

-Al

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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

Is it just me, or does the Coke logo appear as if it was applied via a rubber stamp years after the paper was manufactured? I don't like the way the ink sits on the paper. I don't deal in cards anymore, but certainly have experience with rubber-stamped signatures on vintage paper. Although my opinion is based only from the scan, this seems to emit the same stench.

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Posted By: keyway

I tend to think this may have been a real card with a damaged back and someone stuck a coke add on it. Obvious they trimmed it badly after.

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Posted By: fkw

homemade

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Posted By: Steve

I've held just a couple of these, but seen thousands of aged counterfeits. My money says; Photocopy pasted to cardstock then poorly scissors cut. The blocky digitized text on the back screams digital image enlargement, as well as being colored in with a black pen.

Hope I'm wrong, Good luck bull

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

It's entirely likely that it's homemade, but I'm still very curious about it. The card itself does not look like any of the weak '38 Goudey reprints that circulate throughout the hobby, and while I've seen high-quality reproductions of DiMaggio, Foxx and Feller cards from the set, I've never seen a high-quality reprint of a Julius Solters. Although the scan is weak, the stock appears uniform in color (as it should be) inside and outside the border, and looks like it's got some water staining on it, which presents the same way water staining presents on Goudeys.

Also, the card is obviously hand-cut from something and has no back. Who would reprint the card without the back? And who would reprint Julius Solters?

I suppose the back could have been skinned off, but it seems like a whole lot of effort to go through, skinning a Julius Solters, making a rubber stamp, and putting it on the card. Why do it to Julius Solters when there are nine HOFers in the set?

I have no idea if a bottle of Coke was a nickel in 1938, or if Coke even used that logo and positioning statement in 1938. I suspect that the rubber stamp would prove itself to be historically inaccurate for the time.

At the same time, the card was cut from SOMEWHERE, and no advertising pieces I've ever seen use an image of the Solters card. I've never seen an uncut sheet without the backs printed on it. Without holding the card in my hand, or looking at a crisp scan, I have no idea what kind of stock it's printed on.

Sure is interesting. I'd love to know what this came from, reprinted or not.

-Al

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Posted By: peter ullman

guys...to me this looks like a very bad fake. the whole card appears pixelated...autonatix phony. this looks very similar to the old judge with the stamp on the blank back...previously discussed on the board. It looks totally fake to me...a home made phony...interesting to see the "possible" border on the right side to imply it was cut from a sheet?

pete in mn

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Posted By: Steve

...and Pete KNOWS fakes!

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

Pete, the Solters card was positioned on the sheet in the middle - second row from the bottom, third card from the left. There would have been no right-hand border.

I agree that the scan looks pixelated, but the scan is really bad and blurry, so it's tough to tell what we're looking at.

And I'll maintain - if someone is going to make a fake like this, why choose Julius Solters? Why not Joe DiMaggio or Bob Feller?

-Al

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Posted By: peter ullman

c'mon...what does that mean? I've only bought 5 or 6?

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Posted By: peter ullman

Al...somehow I knew you'd tell me something like that...amazing knowledge of the set you have. Oh...it's not on ebay...oops!

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

Pete, I am a GEEK.

I don't recall the OJ, though.

-Al

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Posted By: peter ullman

it goes with the territory, Al.


http://cgi.ebay.com/Rare-Market-King-Tobacco-Baseball-Card-NY-Gillespie_W0QQitemZ160208163727

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Posted By: Steve

Al, I think vintage commons of rare Issues raise a smaller flag and the possibility of a buyer sending one out to grade, in p-f condition, is low. Scammers come in every IQ level. Also a safe way to build up some "vintage card" FB.

That is if this fake originated on eBay.

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Posted By: dennis

how many blank backed goudeys are out there? how many coke adds have a tie in with goudey gum? this is a nice companion piece that could be displayed with the goudey babe ruth calendar. too much goudey stuff out there for this to have any chance that it is real. if anything like this existed it would be known. i'd say home-made.

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Posted By: MW

An obvious fake.

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Posted By: bullrat

Larger scans maybe not better, cheap scanner, at http
://img172.imageshack.us/img172/6093/542qm5.jpg and http:
//img213.imageshack.us/img213/9831/543sj1.jpg

Card has no connection to ebay. Owner says he has had it for at least 25 years, not sure how he got it. Believe him as he is the guy who back in the 50's got all the cards when the other kids, realizing they had balls, outgrew collecting. Been collecting ever since, has millions of cards and about as many records.

As for the card, it has a sheen, slick feeling, on the front like it has been coated with something.

Back may be stamped, but don't think so. Bleeding from ink makes it look pixilated. Does appear that a few places have been inked in.

As for thickness, he also has a 1935 4 in 1 and the Solters is slightly thicker. Picture of 4 in 1 attached, in case it isn't real and makes this comparison invalid.

Checked on Coke pricing and according to the Food Timeline from 1887 until 1959 Coke sold for a nickel. Delicious and refreshing was used by Coke in advertising in 1907.

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

Good detective work on the Coke stuff, Bullrat. I'd be virtually certain that it's home-made, based on that info alone.

'38 Goudeys aren't slick - there is no gloss, no coating. Very dull, almost porous stock.

Fascinating. I'd love to get a look at it in person, if only to try and figure out what the card was cut from.

-Al