What are some of the toughest mainstream vintage cards to find?

[Mrvintage]

I was just wondering what you guys think are some of the toughest mainstream vintage cards to locate? I was thinking 33 goudey Lajoie and 14 cracker jack Pratt as starters. What others?

[Cardboard Junkie]

By "mainstream" do you mean nationally available? I would have to vote for certain cabinet cards and probably anything 19th century that would fit into mainstream. I have found that most all 19th century regional issues are tough, but I guess thats not mainstream...hmmmm how about some of the tougher sporting news issued cards that are in high demand. Then there are the tough series of cards in a few prewar gum issues too, I guess one could go on and on. Peace, Dave.

[fkw]

tough question........ mainstream usually means common and well known.

If youre talking cards with an ACC# (American Card Catalog Number), there is only one answer ....the 1922 T231 Fan Cigarettes.
There are only 2 examples known.... a Frank Baker (Hi Leon ), and a Carson Bigbee thats been seen as a zerox copy about 30 years ago and never since (as far as I know)

[fkw]

PS. This card (below) may also be a 1933 R340 (or at worst a R309-1 prototype/proof) and if it is a R340, it would be the rarest baseball card with an ACC#
R340s were never issued as intended (redemption offer of 50 Sport Kings wrappers, advertised on some 1933 Sport Kings wrappers)


Its a unique example, only one known (I own it )

I might as well do my biyearly...
"has anyone seen another R309-1 example with the extra wide green borders (adds nearly 1/2" to the height and width compared to the R309-1), green name plaque (instead of the gold on R309-1), square top easel (instead of the round top on R309-1), far superior image quality (compared to the R309-1)"?




PS. A R340 Johnny Weissmuller has been seen, but like the T231 Bigbee mentioned above, the only known image is a small older newspaper quality B&W image, and its not easy to tell if it has the extra green border around edges, but it DOES have the same plaque and fake wood frame design, and fits the size and general description of the R340 premiums offered on the wrapper above..

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by fkw

tough question........ mainstream usually means common and well known.

If youre talking cards with an ACC# (American Card Catalog Number), there is only one answer ....the 1922 T231 Fan Cigarettes.
There are only 2 examples known.... a Frank Baker (Hi Leon ), and a Carson Bigbee thats been seen as a zerox copy about 30 years ago and never since (as far as I know)

I believe a third example has surfaced. Saw that somewhere recently, maybe on the REA blog.

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by Mrvintage

I was just wondering what you guys think are some of the toughest mainstream vintage cards to locate? I was thinking 33 goudey Lajoie and 14 cracker jack Pratt as starters. What others?

The Goudey Lajoie has to be one of the easiest-to-obtain "rare" cards in our hobby. It's expensive, but examples regularly are available in auctions and private sales. Not tough at all to locate.

[Browncow75]

E107s Seem to be semi-tough to find I believe. When they surface, even practically destroyed HOFers demand a high price.

[ullmandds]

The above few cards are NOT from "mainstream" sets...as the question stated?

[bcbgcbrcb]

Isn't there a very rare card (Lindstrom maybe) from the 1933 George C. Miller issue, not sure if that is considered a mainstream set, my guess is maybe not.

[Griffins]

Lindstrom is the rare card from the US Caramel set.
Ivy Andrews is the tough card from the George C Miller set, although no where near as scarce as Lindstrom, at least not a cancelled version.

[Leon]

John Ramirez had told me several years ago that he had a T231, as we were having breakfast at the National. Approximately 8 mos to a yr ago he showed it on Bob L.'s blog. AWA Caramels were only known as a single example until board member Dan M. showed 2 more examples from a private collection, a few months or so ago. The recent T207 Red Cross's that were found approx. doubled their known population of 5. The only problem with collecting the rarest of the rare is that finds will happen. I still love it though and wouldn't change a thing.
As far as mainstream pre-wwII that are difficult to obtain.....the 14' Matty CJ might be there....they are around but not too often....maybe 1-2 times a year.....same with the T210 Joe Jackson.....and one that is also rarely seen is one I was happy to pick up recently but don't have yet, the T210 Kelly Mascot....good question.

edited to add, Griiffin's post right above really hit the nail on the head

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

The above few cards are NOT from "mainstream" sets...as the question stated?

A few people mentioned using the Catalog to determine scarcities. It would be interesting to put together a list from the mainstream sets and then get input to rank them - it's all been discussed plenty of times and perhaps such a list already exists somewhere. I was digging through old Net54 threads yesterday and found one for voting on T206 tough cards. Comparisons were drawn between the O'Hara, Demmitt and green Cobb. I had no idea that people considered the green Cobb all that tough.

[tiger8mush]

some of the M101-1 Supplements are prett darn tough to come by. Finding a particular M101-2 can be tough, but at least you can find an example from the set on ebay. Sometimes you can't even find an M101-1 period.

I know, they aren't "cards", but they have an ACC #

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by tiger8mush

some of the M101-1 Supplements are prett darn tough to come by. Finding a particular M101-2 can be tough, but at least you can find an example from the set on ebay. Sometimes you can't even find an M101-1 period.

I know, they aren't "cards", but they have an ACC #

Examples, please.

[Kenny Cole]

What is a "mainstream" set? I have trouble considering a card from any set "mainstream" if the set itself is so rare that the chance to own any given card from it is, for all practical purposes, non-existent. For example, I don't consider Leon's T231 Baker to come from a mainstream set because, absent a future find, only a couple of people other than Leon can ever own one.

I would consider the U.S. Caramel Lindstrom to come from a mainstream set because there is a realistic chance to own the remainder of the set if one chooses to go after it. Similarly, all N167s are tough to find, but they can be had if you are willing to write a big check. The total population of almost any particular card from the Cuban issues of the 1910s and 1920s is, for the most part, probably less than 20. However, excluding Pete Hill, Bruce Petway and perhaps a few others, a copy can be had if one looks hard enough. Whether the distribution pattern of Cuban cards is such that they qualify as "mainstream" or are instead "regional" issues, is probably a topic best left for another day.

[bcbgcbrcb]

That's it Anthony, thanks for the correction. Guess I had two different ones but mixed them up.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

What is a "mainstream" set? I have trouble considering a card from any set "mainstream" if the set itself is so rare that the chance to own any given card from it is, for all practical purposes, non-existent.

Kenny, I'm hoping as an off-shoot of this thread, someone will start a new one with clear examples of 'mainstream sets'. The original poster gave '33 Goudeys and Cracker Jacks as examples, but only Leon picked up on it. I've asked about T205's and gotten a few responses. I would start a new thread on this myself, as I would like the same info the poster is asking for, but I'm afraid the answer would be that for mainstream sets it is common knowledge.

[ullmandds]

"Mainstream" sets again...are open to debate depending on one's knowledge. To me...mainstream sets are: T201/202/204/205/206/207...E90-1.

Add 33, 34 Goudey

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

"Mainstream" sets again...are open to debate depending on one's knowledge. To me...mainstream sets are: T201/202/204/205/206/207...E90-1.

Peter, I'll use the catalog to build a table of scarcities in such sets, rank them according to what little I know, and run it by you guys for modifications...if there's any interest in such an effort - as I mentioned, it likely already exists and my search abilities are just challenged. Personally, I need it for the T206 and T205 sets I'm working on, so it's gonna happen. T206's are pretty easy, though.

Maybe not mainstream, but I always enjoy seeing the 1920-21 Big Head Strip Cards. Don't see them very often at auction or ebay. Not too many high quality examples of this series.

[calvindog]

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

"Mainstream" sets again...are open to debate depending on one's knowledge. To me...mainstream sets are: T201/202/204/205/206/207...E90-1.

Add 33, 34 Goudey

Peter, list created for T206 and T205 - PM your email and I'll send it to you if you'd like. I have them ranked by price, but it would be good to add a scarcity index (maybe 1 to 10 with a decimal)

[philliesphan]

1911 Zeenut Bohen is extraordinarily rare.

[bigtrain]

I love that Big Head Ty Cobb. It is interesting that some of those hand cut strip cards look like they were cut with a butter knife or a grapefruit spoon. Of course, they were just scraps of paper back then.

[t206 cubs]

What about T207 Ward Miller or Victor Saier? Do they either one rank in the top 20?

[tbob]

Originally Posted by philliesphan

1911 Zeenut Bohen is extraordinarily rare.

I was going to post this card also but didn't know if it were "mainstream" enough. I have the complete 1911 Zeenut set and most variations but have never ever even seen the Bohen card. It is the Holy Grail of PCL cards.

[Jacklitsch]

Originally Posted by tbob

I was going to post this card also but didn't know if it were "mainstream" enough. I have the complete 1911 Zeenut set and most variations but have never ever even seen the Bohen card. It is the Holy Grail of PCL cards.

Bohen