T206 Honus Wagner-Piedmont

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Posted By: TheCard

Thanks Mr. Spell Checker for pointing out misspell words instead of answering the questions. You are a expert in human error. Now for the T206 expert in the house. Stop ego tripping. You are not an expert, just because you have 50, 100, 500, etc... You are just a big collector of T206's. Can you till me when, were, and how the card was printed (factory, city, print plates, etc..) And yes this is very important info., in solving the puzzle behind the T206 Honus Wagner-Piedmont.

Some of you guys say that I am pulling the race card. I don't need to pull the race card to sell my card. The facts speak for them self. I wish that wasn't a issue, but there are sick people out in the world, that may use race, etc.. to work there evil. I didn't make it up, its been there since time started and it be here when my time is up. Back on point. No one on this board has attack the science behind this card. And remember that science is the glue to the Universe, with out it you and I wouldn't exist. Also why haven't know one attack the back of the card. Oh isn't it because there no reprint printed on the back that would say it a reprint. Stop running around and, stay on point. What company reprinted the card. Not that it's a early 80's, 70's reprint. What company put the card out. If you don't know then stop ego tripping and find out. I have ask this question for over 4 years and no one know the answer. So I did the resarch for you. There isn't a company out there that put this card out as a reprint. The science say that its pre-1921. Facts or Facts.

For the T206 expert on the board, stop ego tripping. Just because you own 10,50,100,500,etc.. T206's doesn't make you an expert on the Honus Wagner T206-Piedmont card. If you were an expert then why are there so many stories on the Honus Wagner T206-Piedmont card. You are a big collector, but you don't know when, how and were the T206 card were printed. Dont't talk about it, be about it. That is why there are error cards, ghost (which is a error in print), misspell words and the list goes on, about the T206's poping up everyday. If you are a expert like you say then solve the puzzle. Like Nike say "Just Do It". You so call experts didn't come up with the ideal to have your T206 card tested with science to see if its authentic. And make note that this the first T206 and baseball in history to be tested with science to prove it authenticity. Well that makes me a big expert on vintage card pre-1921 would you say. Sometimes you need science to take the problem to the next level to be solve.

I wonder if the PSA-8 Honus Wagner card has any scientific test behind it. I would stay NO. So stop hating on this card. It has more proof that it's real then the PSA-8 Honus Wagner T206. Oh the PSA-8 HW, been slab, reprints been slab to. You guys only know the surface of this story. If the grading compnaies were expert in authenticating T206 cards, then why didn't they come up with the concept of test the fiber of the card first. I did. So instead of hating, you need to be asking me to authenticate you card. Don't you think. The T206 cards are a mystery and like every mystery you will have controversy.

For the ones who would stay why am I defending my card. I don't need to defend my card the science behind the card defend the card.


Hey it being fun chatting. There are three sides to every story; our side, your side and the truth.

Peace and good night.


P.S.- Spell Checker you still got my back

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Posted By: William

<<If the grading compnaies were expert in authenticating T206 cards, then why didn't they come up with the concept of test the fiber of the card first. I did.>>


Wow.....you are the cutting edge of card authentication.

I am truly embarrassed for you.

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Quit wasting your time and ours trying to sell a bogus card to the most experienced collectors in the hobby. More members of this board have handled REAL un slabbed Wagners in the last few years, than you will ever see pictures of in your lifetime.
In fact I can think of 3-4 members that own a Real one right now.

Quit making a fool of yourself here and go to a yahoo board, where some idiot might actually beleive you.

Brian

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Posted By: ramram

Here we go..............

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Posted By: Jim F

I can till you that the glue of THIS universe is going to block your ass any minute cause he be trippin by now. But seriously dude, get a life. You think someone with $300k to throw around on a piece of cardboard or anything else is stupid? Seriously? T206 cards are not a mystery, the only mystery around here is what you've been smoking. As much as you wish this card to be real with phoney baloney paper testers and Mr. Magoo the famous memorabilia dealer on the 37th floor, it ain't gonna happen!! We ain't buyin what ya sellin!! Never will!! I just want to know how you conned this auctioneer into trying to sell it? Are all those Psa 1-2 T206's yours too? Is that your angle? If all the $20 ones are real, the $300k one must be real too right? Go away.

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Posted By: leon

I have read it all but in the name of a good SNL skit (pick an old one with Belushi....maybe the blues bros. one(s))...and I say let 'er rip. This guy does need to go to the YAAhoo board but why not let him express himself? I really almost thought the first post in this thread was an attempt at comedy, it's so funny.....Tell me how many folks didn't laugh, just a little, when they read it?..breast regards

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Posted By: DJ

Dude, you are trippin! First off, race doesn't exist. Why you ask? WE CAN'T SEE YOU!!!!!!!! If you don't mention it, HOW WOULD WE KNOW?

I don't know half the people on this board and don't know their races but you know what, we are all equal in my eyes. I consider them all "Collectors". Wise collectors.

As far as T206 being a mystery. HOW THE HELL IS IT A MYSTERY? The idea that the Chupcabra existing...now that's a mystery. The death of John F. Kennedy...still remains a mystery. Atlantis, a mystery. The fact that you think you can pull the wool over the eyes of this Forum and why you would return...a mystery. We're talking cardboard from one hundred years ago. It's not exactly Stonehenge.

Obviously you know nothing about cardboard. Stick with horny goat weed and alaskan bear spray, things you know.

DJ

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Posted By: jay behrens

You never told us why we can't get ahold of your expect, Mr Swedy? I would think that it would be very important for him to be able to answer questions about how he went about his tests. You can't sit there and trumpet scientific tsting when the person taht did it has a disconnected phone and can't be found.

You wonder why no one else ever thought of testing fibers from a card to authenticate it? It's because a true expert on t206s does not need to do this and most importantly, and should be relate to to this, by removing fibers from a million dollar card, you are causing hundreds of thousands of dollars in damge.

I'd love to use a favorite saying of one of Black friends, but it would most likely get the post deleted and me sent to corner for using a bad word.

Jay

A good friend will come bail you out of jail. A true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn, that was fun."

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Posted By: John

I hate when people play the “Race Card” but these guys might be onto something!

After a little digging it seems Joe Orlando has a shady past in the Black Exploitation film business…shame on you Joe!




As for this Wagner…IMO, Shownuf it be a fake!

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Posted By: Ray Piskadlo

Congratulations! You probably do own a real T206 BACK!!! Too bad it was skinned off a common and attached to a horrible looking Honus Wagner scan that was artificially aged. It doesn't take a company to do that... just a single person with a computer, scanner, and printer.

Wonka, we missed you!

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Posted By: Dave Simon

You know, a better analysis would have been to have the 'experts' compare the reprint to an actual Wagner or any other T206 Piedmont. Saying that the paper is consistent with paper from an era is different than comparing the paper of your reprint to the paper of a known original.

It's a reprint -- maybe an early reprint, but the specular highlights in his hair are different in yours than in the Gretsky/McNall.

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Posted By: peter ullman

a better analysis would have been to test mr. the card's dna to confirm that he is a con artist and a moron.


pete in mn

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Posted By: jay behrens

If I remember the story of the card right, they got it in the early 90s for $1500. They realized after spending this money that they got conned and are trying pull the con themselves. Basically, they are suckers looking for a bigger sucker. Sadly, I don't think there are two bigger suckers in this world then these two guys. I got a bridge in Brooklyn I'm looking to sell if you are interested.

Jay

A good friend will come bail you out of jail. A true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn, that was fun."

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Posted By: davidcycleback

.

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Posted By: Jim F

How much does fiber analysis cost these days?

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Posted By: Dan Kravitz

Isn’t nice that we can bond together sometimes? It's more fun when the board plays nice. Back to business... Wagner is a bad fake. Please take your nonsense elsewhere. We have meaningful discussions to conduct.

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Posted By: Dave Simon

Extra faux tobacco stains thrown in at no charge. What Piedmont pack did this card come from, the special Drum edition?

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

I just love people who try to defend themselves on vintages carsd on this board when they have no idea who they are dealing with.

Iam curious as to how he found us and the fact we were laughing at this case of fraud. How long are these jokers going to try to keep this up?

Leon, why are we wasting are time with this joker. Just leave a thread with a link to the auction that it is a fake, lock the thread, and bump it to the top of the page when it hits the bottom until the auction is done.

Lee

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Posted By: jay behrens

Lee, these are big time playas (like the hood language?) in the vintage card arena. Didn't you read that he came up with the idea of fiber testing a card for autenticity? Come on, that's about as big a playa as you are gonna find in this ignorant nexk of the woods.

To the card owner, might I suggest carbon-14 dating just to lay to rest an question about how old the card really is. The science doesn't get any better than that

Jay

A good friend will come bail you out of jail. A true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn, that was fun."

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Posted By: davidcycleback

.

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Posted By: Joey Settle

I actually remembered the story of Olbermann having his driver look at the doctored Doyle error he purchased from mr. mint several years ago. Even his driver who knew absolutely nothing about cards could tell it wasn't right. I tried similar scientific logic and had my girlfriend compare the scan of the card against 5 of my graded T206's. She could tell in about .5 seconds the card did not look right at all in comparsion authenticated T206 cards. Being in medical school and having degrees in biology and chemistry, I think I know more than this clown about scientific method. She knows nothing about my cards and probably thinks Ty Cobb is Louis Vuitton's long lost brother. Scientifically, she proved that her unbiased(colorblind to the race card)eyesight doesn't lie, the card is a really, really bad fake! Now, back to more important business.

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Posted By: mike rothstein

Quote: And remember that science is the glue to the Universe, with out it you and I wouldn't exist.

I can live with the fact that you are trying to pawn off a piece of crap as real. And I do have a very healty appreciation for science and technology. Perhaps you can use the "Big Bang Theory" to validate the "origin" of this card?

But, I sure hope my existence is predicated on more than "your science?"

mike

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Posted By: nbrazil

"Can you till me when, were, and how the card was printed (factory, city, print plates, etc..)"

probably in your basement.

"And remember that science is the glue to the Universe"

it's also the glue that stuck that skinned back on your card.

"Facts or Facts."

I'll choose Facts, please.

"If you are a expert like you say then solve the puzzle."

Why dont you tell this to orlando, baker, PSA, SGC, GAI?...i bet you they can solve the puzzle. Oh wait! Grading companies are the spawn of satan, right?

"I wonder if the PSA-8 Honus Wagner card has any scientific test behind it. I would stay NO. So stop hating on this card. It has more proof that it's real then the PSA-8 Honus Wagner T206. Oh the PSA-8 HW, been slab, reprints been slab to."


Then you should be more than fine if your card is guaranteed to be real, right? If the reprinted gretzy/mcnall wagner is not legit, then your card should get a PSA 9...10...or, joe orlando might jump right out of his shoes when he sees your beautiful, pristine, magnificently crafted card and give it the first ever PSA 11!! Holy toledo, you'd be a billionaire!! Seriously, your logic is extremely flawed when you bring up the PSA 8. If your card is legit and the PSA 8 isnt, then you shouldnt be hesitant in the least to send it to PSA for authenticity.

"If the grading compnaies were expert in authenticating T206 cards, then why didn't they come up with the concept of test the fiber of the card first. I did."

I bet you created the internet too, huh big time? What now??..solve global warming?

"For the ones who would stay why am I defending my card. I don't need to defend my card"

Uh, your two posts contradict that above statement.

"the science behind the card defend the card."

im still confused. you mention "science" about a dozen times in your two posts. what is this science? jesus magic?

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Posted By: Seth B,

"Our side, your side, and the truth"

Logic fails you just like spellchecking. Again, idiot, you clearly confess you aren't telling the truth. Hey man, best of luck with the upcoming lawsuit! Dumb jacka$$.

And if "science"=Arnie Schwed, well, count me out. PLEASE, NOBODY BID ON THIS CARD!

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Posted By: Tim James

I noticed that the two posts have a haunting simalarity to the way people who are in a cult try to convince you that they are right and you are wrong.I've heard people argue about the Bible using pretzel logic just like this.

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Posted By: Cat

Cardowner....back away from the glue man.

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

I have one with the "Horace DeBussey Jones" back and it
is graded !

I believe this dude is fereel....i think he is flossing
with the posse from the flytip.

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

I must have missed something in the translation...

Hey it being fun chatting. There are three sides to every story; our side, your side and the truth.

So, what is the truth?

Does this closing statement mean that our side and your side is not the truth? Somewhere in between lies the truth?

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Posted By: Luc Mitchell

"Can you till me when, were, and how the card was printed (factory, city, print plates, etc..) And yes this is very important info., in solving the puzzle behind the T206 Honus Wagner-Piedmont."
Can you? If you can't, then how can you prove it to be real? After all, it's easier to disprove something than prove it.


"I don't need to pull the race card to sell my card"
Then don't.


"Oh isn't it because there no reprint printed on the back that would say it a reprint"
Do you expect ANY scammer to be that stupid, flaunting a card that says "reprint" all over it? Oh, wait...


"The science say that its pre-1921"
Science (and good science for the time, at that) has also taught us that the earth is flat and that the sun revolves around it.


"Oh the PSA-8 HW, been slab, reprints been slab to"
So if you doubt the workmanship, for lack of a better word, or PSA, then why don't you send your card there? I mean if if will most certainly be slabbed, authentic or fake, why throw away the money that "authenticating" would generate?


"So instead of hating, you need to be asking me to authenticate you card"
In your own words "Stop ego tripping"


"For the ones who would stay why am I defending my card. I don't need to defend my card the science behind the card defend the card."
So why defend it?


"Hey it being fun chatting. There are three sides to every story; our side, your side and the truth."
For the first time, we are in accord: you arn't telling the truth.


Luc Mitchell

P.S. If do do manage to sell this thing, could you please take night school classes on how to spell? Cuz spell checker aint doing you no good.

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Posted By: Russ Bright

"Spell checker" may have your back, but I'm worried about the other nasty guys; "Grammar Checker" and "Complete Sentance Man". They will be your ultimate downfall.

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Posted By: J Levine

I tried to be nice and civil in the other thread and then I got annoyed but now I know I have it correct. I would like to offer the sellers of this card, two more Wagners with Piedmont backs. Niether will state reprint and both will be reprinted on paper certain to come from no later than 1909. I will offer them both for the sum of $1000 each. They will pass all forensic tests on the paper fiber and ink. All I ask is about 1 month to print them up. See, I need to find a book from the given time period, not really a big problem because I have two fantastic used book shops near me and they carry a variety of vintage books. I then need to carefully remove the paper, pulp it using distilled water and reconstitute it as thicker, almost cardboard stock. Really not that hard. Used to do this all the time in my middle school and camp. The harder part would be to find inks that do not react to UV light. But wait, that can be done to as many vintage inks are still available although not readily. If that does not happen, I can always use my old trick of mixing oil paints. You would be surprised how close I can come to a given color. The backs are really easy too. Skin a couple of cheap t206s and viola'! So, boys, let me know if you want them. Really. I don't understand why you would not as you stand to make a fortune on your's and three fortunes are better than one right? One for each of the owners and one for their lawyer. Drop me a note. I look forward to doing business with you.

Joshua

PS Whatever you do, stick by your guns and do not let those crooks at PSA or SGC look at your card or the cards I sell you. You can make your money without them.

PPS Maybe Mr. Connelly wants one too...I should make three.

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Posted By: John S

As an instructor of Chemistry and Biology, let me educate you about the word "science". Science is a process, not a means to prove anything. Science is continually misrepresented by the media and ignorant individuals like yourself as a conclusive and fail-safe endeavor. The final step of the scientific method is the presentation of results/conclusion for criticism. While there is no doubt that had the card analyzed, a panel of experts (this board) has deemed the card a forgery. In this situation, the good scientist, if he/she was undaunted by the criticism, would re-test their hypothesis (the card is real) by eliminating variables. Bottom line, if you truly believe the card to be real, allow a panel of experts, not just hand-picked individuals, to examine the card.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

I keep waiting for him to walk over to us, stick out his hand and say, "Do you mind if we dance wif yo dates?"

Of course, my response will be: "Why not at all..."

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Posted By: Andrew Parks

John,

Could it be true? Could you actually be a rational scientist????

"Science is a process, not a means to prove anything. Science is continually misrepresented by the media and ignorant individuals like yourself as a conclusive and fail-safe endeavor."

This is beautiful! As a creationist, I beg of you to allow me to use your words in future debates! This is exactly what I try to tell irrational scientists all of the time, but they don't want to hear it.

Thank you for that breath of fresh air!

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Posted By: barrysloate

Dear Wagner owner- let us continue this discussion and exercise in futility. First, the puzzle of this card has been solved a long time ago, and it is fake. Second, you question whether the people on this board are experts. Well guess what, this is in fact a board of expert vintage card collectors. Every person on this board spends a good part of his or her professional or leisure time studying vintage baseball cards, and no set has been analyzed more than T206. How much time have you and your buddy spent studying the set? That aside, I have an offer to make you that you can't refuse. Here's the deal: We send the card to one of the grading services, and I, Barry Sloate, will pay for all the fees. If the card turns out to be fake, you send me $1.00. If the card turns out to be real, I will send you a certified check for $10,000! That's 10,000 to 1 odds in your favor. The whole board is my witness so if I lose I will have to pay. The stipulation for you to collect is either SGC, PSA, or GAI must examine the card and make a ruling. How can you lose? Since the card is real, you will pick up a cool 10K with no risk. Please email me at bsloate@att.net if you wish to accept my offer.

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Posted By: anthony

i just looked at this piece of sh*t, if any idiot decides to bid on this card, then they deserve to have their money taken from them...im just glad they stated that they are not an authenticator...thats enough for me

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Good offer, Barry.

Science is the glue that holds that Wagner scan to the front of a skinned T206 card. Science was the process involved in skinning the card and resurfacing it.

Theft by deception would be the offense that deputies of some Attorney General's Office will be studying.

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Posted By: Joann

General impressions ...

... damn - here is this thread, and me without beer and popcorn.

... Leon, PLEASE don't lock the thread. It's just too unbelieveable, and despite the complete disregard the board has for this person and this card, just the magnitude of the attempted sale makes it (unfortunately) legit vintage card news.

... And yes, my initial reaction to the first post in the first thread was 'this is so pathetic it's comic'. Definitely kind of funny.

... It reminds me of talking politics with my sisters. Which in a way goes like this:

(Both looking at garbage can)

Sister: That's an antique Chinese vase.

Joann: No, no, that's actually a galvanized aluminum garbage can.

Sister: It is NOT. It is an antique Chinese vase. Probably priceless.

Joann: Really - it's an old dented garbage can that you can get at Lowe's for $20.

Sister: Well, you're entitled to your opinion.

Joann: It's not my opinion. It's fact. Every reasonable and notable source out there says it's a garbage can.

Sister: That's just the liberal media!

Heee. Really. Complete denial of any factual input in favor of crazy ideas that come from ... who knows where. Soundbites.

... It's not exactly Stonehenge. HAHAHAHAA. Now THAT is a good way to start a day!

Joann

Edited to add:

In actual political discussion with sisters, substitute this first line:

Sister: Things are going very well in Iraq. Freedom is on the march!

lolol. You can guess the rest from there. But really, there are some creepy paralles in these two Wagner threads!

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Posted By: John S

Andrew,

As I tell my students that are creationists, you are entitled to your beliefs as I am to mine. Those that propose that evolution is a fact do as much disservice to the scientific standpoint as creationists that attempt to apply science to an untestable faith-based hypothesis. With that said, the research of thousands of scientists provides strong support for the theory of evolution by natural selection. Science is a way of knowing, but as I stated in my previous post is often misrepresented as an end-all. By its very nature science is continuing process by which theories evolve as new information is tested for validity.

As for these jokers, ignoring evidence that does not support a hypothesis and refusing to properly address criticism weakens any argument, and in essence is the poorest science one could evoke.

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Posted By: joe

I think Sean has been watching too many rap videos. Oh' wait, this is someone else.
No offense, Sean. I couldn't resist.
"What company put the card out. I have ask this question for over 4 years and no one know the answer. So I did the resarch for you. There isn't a company out there that put this card out as a reprint."
This guy wants to know what company reprinted these cards: the Capital company reprinted the entire set and put it in a nice faux-wood box and labeled it :T-206 The Monster." See, I have that set. It loks of washed out. Cost $30 for the whole set. But I think this guy got his Wagner from another set. On this set the picture looks great, just like his reprint, but the name and team text aren't right - also like his reprint. There is also some interesting info on the back, which explains the card is worth $100,000. Funny, isn't that what he's trying to sell it for?
Too bad there isn't a more up to date reprint with the card's actual worth.
I usually don't chime in on threads like this, but really. I felt like I was reading one of those e-mails teling me that I won the lottery in Uganda and al I have to do to collect is send a blank check to some PO box in Oakland.

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Posted By: John Basilone

All one needs to do is check the co-owner's website to see that they offer only legitimate items to the public.

http://www.rainbowsgold.com/page/RG/SFNT

What the heck is "Horny Goat Weed" anyways?

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Posted By: barrysloate

Horny Goat Weed sounds something like Spanish Fly.

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Posted By: John

Stuff must work well. However it seems to work to well it makes crap come from both ends in this guys case!

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Posted By: steve f

Not sure what that herb is, but I'm volunteering to fix vittles tonite!

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Posted By: ScottIngold

Maybe his goats in heat.

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Posted By: David Smith

As I said in another post, I would hate to see what these guys are trying to get over on their customers in their REAL business. Now that I have seen their website, I am scared.

Refurbished cell phones, tasers and herbal remedies. I don't think, no, I KNOW I wouldn't want to risk my money, not to mention my life, on a refurbished cell phone or a taser from these guys. Seeing the logic and science they use and quote concerning the T206 Wagner, just think what science they can quote you on the cell phones and Taser, especially if (when?) those items don't work.

Also, I don't even want to get into the science behind the herbal remedies...

Horny Goat Weed and the science behind it. Farmer sees goat A eat weeds in a field. Goat A then proceeds to mount goat B and have sex. Farmer decides weeds that goat A ate must be an afrodisiac (I know, spelled wrong on porpoise). Farmer then has bright idea and gathers all of the weeds up and markets them....

See, they must be an afrodisiac because a farmer saw goat A eat the weeds and then mount goat B. And isn't a farmer an expert????

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Posted By: John

You guys have to give these clowns credit though. They may not be smart but they are clever. These 2 guys have taken a worthless piece of paper and received numerous articles and media coverage.

In fact, we here have even given this particular clown over 100 responses to his really really bad fake Wagner. I feel really bad for all the other scammers who are much more creative, grandpa’s attic, in between book pages etc. We don’t give those guys more than one or two responses in a thread. These two guys have raised the bar when it comes to fake Wagner’s, kudos to them.

As for my fellow forum members I can’t believe you guys take the time to explain anything to this guy or his brain dead partner in crime. Do you really think he’s going to say “hey, you guys be right!” He’s just another run of the mill a scammer with better media coverage, and greedy stupid second-rate auction house partner in crime.

If any idiot is willing or dumb enough to spend 300k on this thing, I say who cares, to me its just 300k less he can spend on real cards he knows nothing about. Any person who buys this card for 300k or $3 gets what he or she deserves.

In summary make fun of the guy…hell yes!
Why because its funny, and he’s a huge stupid target who deserves it.

Give the guy rational arguments and ethics lessons…. hell no.
Why because he’s a crook, and he’s too stupid to learn anything that you could possibly teach him.

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Posted By: Bruce Babcock

This thread has great entertainment value.

I'm not a T206 expert. I have owned 50-75 T206s over the years and now own about 5. I claim no expertise whatsoever. But when a fake is so bad that it's laughable, no expertise is needed.

The scan in the 46th post (if I counted correctly) in the "New Wagner Find" by fkw proves that the card is a fake - period. This is obvious to anyone, T206 expert, or Olberman's driver or anyone off the street.

I'm not an expert on counterfeit money either but if I noticed the oval around Franklin's face on my $100 bill was missing, unlike every other $100 I've ever seen, I would assume it was counterfeit, i.e., created to deceive. I wouldn't be surprised that the counterfeiters didn't sign their names. I wouldn't need to have the paper tested.

At first I gave these guys the huge benefit of the doubt. I thought they meant well but were simply uninformed. Now I think differently.

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Posted By: Patrick McHugh

Opening bid on Wagner card 300k. Grading fee to authenticate 200. Reading this thread and laughing so hard my ribs feel broken priceless.

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Posted By: Steve Dawson

Copied/pasted from your original post above:

"There are three sides to every story; our side, your side and the truth."



So you are NOT telling the truth!


Gee, who'da thunk it!


Steve