1939 Playball Gehrig, 1934 Goudey Ruth, and other cards that never were

[henson1855]

Lately , the forum has addressed the omission of Joe Jackson in several sets such as T206, T205, and T207 among other E and T sets that could have featured him. There have been some great theories explaining why he was omitted. I have wondered since I started collecting as a kid why some other cards were never made, a few that come to mind are the '38 goudey and '39 Playball Lou Gehrig , 1934 goudey Babe Ruth, Fan Craze Mathewson , and even more perplexing to me Is if the T206 Plank is scarce because of a broken printing plate, why wasn't there an alternate Plank card in that set with a different pose ? I am wondering if any other members have thoughts on these or any other cards that never were? I know it is what it is but it's still fun to imagine what some of these would look like if they were made?

[Robextend]

I always wondered why Ernie Lombardi was not included in the 1933 Goudey set. He had a pretty good 1932 season...

[HRBAKER]

I saved this scan from a website a few years ago that was about "cards that never were." I have misplaced the e-addy but there were some great fantasy cards there.

[ChrisStufflestreet]

That CJ Ruth looks like one of Keith Conforti's creations...he uses the handle Con40.

Other cards I've wondered about...

1935 Goudey Yankees w/Lou Gehrig
1936 Goudey Lou Gehrig, Bob Feller, Joe DiMaggio
1938 Goudey Lou Gehrig
1933 Delong Babe Ruth
1941 Play Ball Lefty Grove
1941 Goudey Joe DiMaggio, Lefty Grove, Hank Greenberg, Ted Williams
1952 Topps Rogers Hornsby (manager that season), Casey Stengel, Whitey Ford, Ted Williams.

Also...T210 Jim Thorpe (he was in the Eastern Carolina League that year and could have been in Series 7)

[Robextend]

The 1936 Goudey set is only 25 cards, so there are many HOF omissions from that set. Feller and DiMaggio are featured in the 199 card Goudey Wide Pen set.

Although I am not sure why Gehrig is featured in the 1936 Canadian Goudey WWG set and not in the Wide Pen set.

[Peter_Spaeth]

US Caramel Ott, Hubbell
34 Goudey Ott
Diamond Stars Gehrig, Ruth, Dean

[jmoran19]

My guess is some stars were held back for additional series depending how well the first packs sold which probably wasn't very good since America was in a depression.

[Matthew H]

I think that DeLong probably just didn't have enough money to print a bigger set. Their company was an upstart that year. I've always been fascinated with that set, so many HOF's, so few cards.

[deadballera]

great thread !

it would have been nice to see these cards produced.

[PolarBear]

Just about any 50's Topps Musial card, 58, 57, and 58 in particular.

[Mr. Mitt]

Jeff... is this the website you're referring to?

http://www.vintagecardtraders.org/vi...do/pseudo.html

[PolarBear]

Awesome.

[henson1855]

Just a thought , maybe the Babe didn't want to appear on the '34 goudey set because of the "Lou Gehrig or Chuck Klein says" design? The lack of a Gehrig Playball card from '39 or even '40 is one I can't figure out , I am not sure when the '39 cards hit the market , but I would think even if it was after his retirement, they would still issue one . I think the issue with Ted Williams , Feller , Musial , maybe Jackie Robinson and probably several others from the early '50's was them selling their rights to either Topps or Bowman but not both.

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by henson1855

JuI think the issue with Ted Williams , Feller , Musial , maybe Jackie Robinson and probably several others from the early '50's was them selling their rights to either Topps or Bowman but not both.

This is true. Also, Williams was in Korea and missed the 52 and 53 issues.

Still annoying though that all the stars aren't in a single issue until Topps bought out Bowman, and even then Musial is missing until 59.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by Mr. Mitt

Jeff... is this the website you're referring to?

http://www.vintagecardtraders.org/vi...do/pseudo.html

Yessir! That's the one. Great handiwork

[brett]

Originally Posted by henson1855

Just a thought , maybe the Babe didn't want to appear on the '34 goudey set because of the "Lou Gehrig or Chuck Klein says" design?

The actual fact is that at the time Ruth and Gehrig absolutely HATED each other and there was no way Babe was going to have a card in a "Lou Gehrig" set. What I can't figure out is why Gehrig didn't have a '35 Goudey or beyond. Unless he had bad dealings with Goudey over his '34 set or signed an exclusive elsewhere it just doesn't make sense.

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by brett

The actual fact is that at the time Ruth and Gehrig absolutely HATED each other and there was no way Babe was going to have a card in a "Lou Gehrig" set. What I can't figure out is why Gehrig didn't have a '35 Goudey or beyond. Unless he had bad dealings with Goudey over his '34 set or signed an exclusive elsewhere it just doesn't make sense.

Brett is there any actual credible evidence to your statement or is it just your speculation? It is well known that the two rarely spoke off the field BUT I have never heard anyone say that they HATED each other to the point that they wouldn't be pictured together or would refuse to be in a card set due to the others inclusion.

[Matt]

Rhett - to your point:

[ChrisStufflestreet]

Originally Posted by PolarBear

This is true. Also, Williams was in Korea and missed the 52 and 53 issues.

Still annoying though that all the stars aren't in a single issue until Topps bought out Bowman, and even then Musial is missing until 59.

Musial's absence wasn't entirely a Topps/Bowman issue. While Musial was in Bowman sets through '53, he didn't appear in another Bowman set ('54 or '55) and didn't finally come to Topps until late in 1958. Aside from Red Heart and Red Man, Musial was largely gone from the major baseball sets for 5 years.

Williams was out of sets when he entered the service...but both companies were selective about that. While Whitey Ford was out of the 1952 sets due to his Army service...yet Willie Mays missed most of '52 and all of '53 to the Army but was in both Topps and Bowman sets in '52, as well as a 1953 Topps card.

[brett]

Originally Posted by Matt

Rhett - to your point:

It's called a photo-op. Here's the real story...

It is difficult to pinpoint precisely when the relationship turned frigid, as it did. But Gehrig increasingly objected to Ruth's public declamations against Yankee Manager Joe McCarthy, a man Gehrig almost revered as a second father. To Gehrig, such loose talk was just not permissible. An Unpleasant Visit

A petty incident curtailed further civility between Gehrig and Ruth. Dorothy, the 12-year-old daughter of Babe's first wife, went to visit Lou's mother one weekend in the early 30's dressed like a shabby tomboy. In the eyes of Mrs. Gehrig, who was domineering and opinionated, this was an insult.

"Why doesn't Claire dress her as properly as she does Julia?" Mrs. Gehrig said, angrily. (Julia was Claire Ruth's daughter by her first marriage.)

The remark quickly reached Claire's ears, then Babe's. Ruth barked: "Why doesn't Mom Gehrig mind her own damned business!"

Fiercely attached to his mother, Gehrig could never tolerate such a crude verbal assault on his mother's integrity. As a result, Babe and Lou rarely spoke to each other off the field. They shook hands at home plate in the traditional ritual after home runs and managed to be accommodating when photographers asked them to pose together. But Lou was forced to play-act his familiar grin in the presence of Ruth.

The last straw came when Ruth spoke disparagingly of Gehrig's cherished consecutive game streak. He said he regarded it as little more than a boring statistic. "This Iron Horse stuff is just a lot of baloney," Ruth growled. "I think he's making one of the worst mistakes a player can make. He ought to learn to sit on the bench and rest. They're not going to pay off on how many games he's played in a row." One Brief Gesture

The rift never healed. For a moment, when the Babe dramatically flung his arms around Lou at the Yankee Stadium ceremony on July 4, 1939 at which Gehrig delivered his famous farewell speech, it appeared that the disaffection between them may have eased. But in the last two years of Lou's life, Ruth paid little heed to his dying ex-teammate.

[thegashousegang]

Thanks for those details, Brett. I wasn't aware of all of it.

[hunterdutchess]

Originally Posted by Matt

Rhett - to your point:

I dont know why but that pic. makes me sad.

[henson1855]

It is well documented that Ruth and Gehrig had a "cool" relationship off the field, but they still appeared together both in photos and in public quite often, getting back to the lack of a '34 Goudey Ruth, even though his career was in decline Ruth was still a star and very popular with kids, who collected gum cards in the '30's , so either Ruth didn't want to appear second fiddle on the '34 goudey. or Goudey saw Ruth was in the twilight of his career and chose not to include him,but yet included him in the '35 set ? Does anyone have a theory on Eddie Plank not having a 2nd or even 3rd pose on the T206 set ? He was one of the top pitchers of the day.

[judsonhamlin]

You would think that National Chicle would have jumped on Ruth for the Diamond Stars set, or if Gehrig had an issue with Goudey after '34, would have tried to get him in one of the 35/36 series.

[mintacular]

There is a '58 Musial As

[brett]

Originally Posted by henson1855

Does anyone have a theory on Eddie Plank not having a 2nd or even 3rd pose on the T206 set ? He was one of the top pitchers of the day.

Home Run Baker, Eddie Collins, Ed Walsh and other Hall of Famers only had one pose as well so I don't think there's any specific reason.

[brett]

Originally Posted by hunterdutchess

I dont know why but that pic. makes me sad.

Every picture of Gehrig makes me sad because you can just see what a wonderful human being he was and you know what he ended up having to go through. As well-loved as he is, I still believe he's one of the most UNDER-RATED players ever.

[henson1855]

There's a big difference as far as far as T206 is concerned, Eddie Plank had already won over 200 games as was a superstar of the day, Eddie Collins at the time barely had 100 career hits . Baker just had broke in in 1908, Walsh won 40 in 1908 so I could see a case being made for him,but none of these players at the time of this set being issued , was on the same level or even close as Plank. There was also a T206 proof of Collins batting that was never issued but is well documented.

[Steve D]

Regarding Plank not having more than one pose in T206.....

A few months back, I believe Ted Z hypothisized that it was perhaps a "rights" issue with several of the Philadelphia players, between the American Tobacco Co and American Caramel Co. As American Caramel was based in Philadelphia, Ted theorized that American Caramel had the "rights" to portray the Philly players (including Plank), and that they forced American Tobacco to withdraw the Plank portrait. This would have also kept the ATC from issuing a different pose of Plank in the 350 or 350-460 series.

It would also explain why Connie Mack wasn't represented in T206.

Steve