fake psa flips

[sflayank]

there are many fake flips out there especially on psa 6 aaron rookies...be careful...cards are real but much lower grade...there may even be one on net54 right now...not saying there is...but be careful
larry

[bobsbbcards]

+1

[Neal]

Originally Posted by sflayank

there are many fake flips out there especially on psa 6 aaron rookies...be careful...cards are real but much lower grade...there may even be one on net54 right now...not saying there is...but be careful
larry

wow

can you show us what to look for?

[irv]

Originally Posted by sflayank

there are many fake flips out there especially on psa 6 aaron rookies...be careful...cards are real but much lower grade...there may even be one on net54 right now...not saying there is...but be careful
larry

Are these actual "Faked" PSA slabs or slabs that have been cracked?

[Canofcorn]

Originally Posted by sflayank

there are many fake flips out there especially on psa 6 aaron rookies...be careful...cards are real but much lower grade...there may even be one on net54 right now...not saying there is...but be careful
larry

Hey Larry, don't beat around the bush. You messaged me earlier today saying my card was fake. I gave you a very thoughtful response explaining that another member questioned the authenticity (via Ebay, turned out to be a Net54 member and great guy), and I thanked him for letting me know....took it immediately down, called PSA...sent it to PSA for a $85 review and 2 day express service. They reviewed it... which I explained to you...then you have the nerve to still say it's a fake - and demanded to see my invoice. Keep in mind, you have no interest in the card, you are just busting balls.

So do me a favor, if you are going to accuse me of anything, man up and do it - stop being passive aggressive.
Don't say "there may even on one on net54 and be careful"

Here is the email from PSA after I sent them the card, (identities protected)
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 11:16 AM
To: Michael
Subject: RE: PSA Aaron

Mr. xxx

I hope you are well and apologize for the delay in my response. I will assist in having your Aaron card reviewed, and should the unfortunate instance occur where the card is deemed unauthentic, our operations manager would work with you regarding a remedy for the troubles. Again, I hope you are well, apologize for the delay, and look forward to working with you further.

Best,
xxx
PSA Operations
@collectors.com

[Canofcorn]

.....

[orly57]

I am the afore-mentioned member and great guy that Canofcorn referred to. A buddy of mine was looking for an Aaron rookie and sent me a pic from ebay of a psa 6 Hank that looked all wrong to me. I suspected it was one of the fakes from the Califoria scam years ago. I sent an email to the seller, who IMMEDIATELY pulled it from his store. He asked me for my number and i texted him the links of the fake Aarons. Eventually I asked him if he was on net54 and came to find out it was Canofcorn (he has a different ebay handle). I had never communicated with him before, but his catchy name rung bells.
Anyway, i got a text like two weeks later from him telling me (in jest) that i cost him $100 on the regrade. That the card came back with a 6 in the new holder. He sent me a picture (same as the one he posted here on net). It is the same card he was selling on ebay, only now in a new psa holder.
I can tell you with 100% certainty that Canofcorn, unlike many ebayers would, pulled the card and verified its authenticity rather than pawning it off without knowing. While I agree with the OP that the card seems a bit overgraded and has some characteristics that forgeries tend to have, I know for certain that Canofcorn had it re-slabbed and it passed muster with psa.
Canofcorn is right. You really shouldnt post things about other members without knowing them to be true. It is irresponsible.

[Flintboy]

I've done a couple of deals with Mike and have had nothing but positive interactions. Well stated response Mike, I think you went above and beyond to prove to him that the card is not a fake. I know a lot of people would not have taken the moral high ground and tried to sell it if it was possibly a fake. You didn't , you sent it off for verification, that says a lot about a persons character.

[pokerplyr80]

Amazing. I hope there is more backlash for posting false fraud accusations on this site than there was for posting a joke about a cat.

[orly57]

Originally Posted by Neal

wow

can you show us what to look for?

Here is a good link. What made me think Canofcorn's card was fake was the black arms and blurry hat on the fielding pose. Also here is a prior Net link discussing it. But it appears bad lighting was to blame.

http://bbcemporium.com/california-craigs-list-psa-scam/

http://www.net54baseball.com/archive...?t-131004.html

[Neal]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Amazing. I hope there is more backlash for posting false fraud accusations on this site than there was for posting a joke about a cat.

agreed!

For the record, Mike is an honest guy and hearing that he pulled it from eBay and paid good money to have it reviewed goes a long way in my book.

[sflayank]

No one said the card was fake
No one said you made a fake slip
And no one said you switched cards
What was said is that theres a very good chance that the flip is fake since the card cant possibly grade a 6 unless the grader was blind...if in fact psa reviewed this card and kept the grade as a 6...then clearly they just didnt want to pay you the smr of a 6 as per their guarantee
Personally i would still like to see the invoice
That shows you paid for a grade review and a reholder

[irv]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Amazing. I hope there is more backlash for posting false fraud accusations on this site than there was for posting a joke about a cat.

The OP didn't mention any names or any other info about the member, the member chose to do that himself.

Just my 2 cents.

[Canofcorn]

Originally Posted by irv

The OP didn't mention any names or any other info about the member, the member chose to do that himself.

Just my 2 cents.

Well I'm the only one with a PSA 6 Aaron on here at the moment.

[sflayank]

thank you
that is correct i mentioned no one
the card holder came on here to tell us himself

[Canofcorn]

Originally Posted by sflayank

thank you
that is correct i mentioned no one
the card holder came on here to tell us himself

You send me PMs calling my card a fake

You proceed to create a thread - saying there might even be one on Net54, and I'm the only one with a PSA 6 on net54

You continue to bash my card saying the grader must have been blind - when I am actively trying to sell it here (would you want anybody saying anything derogatory about your '52T Mantle you are trying to sell here?)

And you still have the nerve to want to see my invoice.....(It will cost you $114 to see it)

[orly57]

Originally Posted by sflayank

No one said the card was fake
No one said you made a fake slip
And no one said you switched cards
What was said is that theres a very good chance that the flip is fake since the card cant possibly grade a 6 unless the grader was blind...if in fact psa reviewed this card and kept the grade as a 6...then clearly they just didnt want to pay you the smr of a 6 as per their guarantee
Personally i would still like to see the invoice
That shows you paid for a grade review and a reholder

Are you serious??? You still want an invoice? It is obviously the same card Larry! Look at the nicks on the left border. Or are you suggesting that our old pal Canofcorn has mountains of both new and old slabs in his house in efforts to scam members of Net54? Just stop it, apologize, and move on.

[irv]

Originally Posted by Canofcorn

Well I'm the only one with a PSA 6 Aaron on here at the moment.

I wasn't aware of that, but if other members are, then I am sorry.

[Canofcorn]

Originally Posted by irv

I wasn't aware of that, but if other members are, then I am sorry.

No need to apoligize Irv. You and I both know and have said on numerous occasions that PSA used to give out some very generous grades....and older 5s and 6s would be 2s, 3s, and 4s today. Take care

[dio]

Some cards are stronger and some cards are weaker in certain grade, and you can't only judge it by the corners. Some cards has great corners but color fade so bad.

check out this mantle, corners are great, but look at the bottom edge color, looks like stain

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1954-RED-HEA...p2047675.l2557

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by sflayank

thank you
that is correct i mentioned no one
the card holder came on here to tell us himself

Unbelievable. It was quite clear who you were referring to in your initial post. It took me about 10 seconds to find the listing. Rather than apologize for your false accusations you just keep making yourself look worse. I would never think of calling out another member the way you did unless I was absolutely certain. And even then I would probably only do so if I was the victim of the supposed fraud. A complete lack of class in my opinion.

[sflayank]

nobody accused him of anything
i never mentioned his name or his card
there are 1000s of fake flips out there
and there is no way on earth this particular card grades a 6
its a 4 at best and more likely a 3
i sincerely doubt psa reviewed this card and maintained the grade of 6
if the flip is real and the card hasnt been switched
then the owner of this card....should have learned a lesson....buy the card not the holder
the thread was nothing more than a warning to everyone that there are many fake flips out there
and based on todays prices i would demand psa buy the card at the going rate as per their guarantee

[Flintboy]

Three things in life I don't like
1. Warm beer
2. Wet toilet paper
3. Anal retentive supposed know it alls

Numbers 1 and 2 don't apply to Larry....

[basesareempty]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Amazing. I hope there is more backlash for posting false fraud accusations on this site than there was for posting a joke about a cat.

I agree!!!

[KCRfan1]

Larry,

PSA reviewed the card to determine if it was authentic or not ( a fake ). That is all PSA did. They did not regrade the card. The card was graded years ago so there is no need to regrade the card, and PSA applied a new label ( as evident with the PSA hologram ) and holder. The registration number did not change.

You've been on the board for a number of years and know that grading is subjective. We have all seen cards graded 5's that should be 7's, and 7's that should be 5's.

What ever the case, the card graded what it did at the time.

Mike has a nice PSA 6 Aaron, that MOST of us would love to have.

He appears to have gone above and beyond to relieve any doubt about the cards authenticity.

[sflayank]

Obviously you are completely unaware of the actual situation...NOBODY claimed the card wasnt real
And it was not sent in for that purpose..if it was sent in at all..which i doubt...PSA GRADING GUARANTEE....read it...since hes selling the card anyway psa would happily give him current market value if they made a grading error....if there is someone on this board who believes that card is exmt....i have many many baseball cards in that condition id like to sell for exmt prices....

[wilkiebaby11]

You can't passively state "there may be a fake PSA 6 up for sale on the board". That's just shenanigans and in absolute poor character; not becasue you posted it, but becasue you won't stand behind your accusation. Just becasue you didnt directly point it out, does not mean you are not 100% implying that that is the particular card that you are referring to. The only credence is that you only stated that it could be a fake (becasue you have zero proof that it is). In that case, I think that you are justified in trying to solve your doubts and relay them, but you better be able to walk the walk and you are now playing dumb.

You called him out, so now you have to either prove it, or at least say that you can't.

How would you like it if someone said:
"There may or may not be a 52 Mantle SGC 6 floating around the boards that is most likely a fake. The price may or may not have been dropped a half dozen times. If said card and post existed, it's obviously not being sold becasue it is probably a fake.".
I'm sure you would be pissed as just the slightest amount of doubt in the authenticity of a card with turn off any buyer.

In one hand, pointing out possible counterfeits/fakes/scams is important. However, you can't be frivolously doing it (not saying that you were). What does need to happen though, is when you have been proven wrong, you need to make it right and say that you were wrong; not cower behind your keyboard and playing ignorant and dumb.

[wilkiebaby11]

Originally Posted by KCRfan1

Larry,

PSA reviewed the card to determine if it was authentic or not ( a fake ). That is all PSA did. They did not regrade the card. The card was graded years ago so there is no need to regrade the card, and PSA applied a new label ( as evident with the PSA hologram ) and holder. The registration number did not change.

You've been on the board for a number of years and know that grading is subjective. We have all seen cards graded 5's that should be 7's, and 7's that should be 5's.

What ever the case, the card graded what it did at the time.

Mike has a nice PSA 6 Aaron, that MOST of us would love to have.

He appears to have gone above and beyond to relieve any doubt about the cards authenticity.

+1

[Neal]

Originally Posted by sflayank

Obviously you are completely unaware of the actual situation...NOBODY claimed the card wasnt real
And it was not sent in for that purpose..if it was sent in at all..which i doubt...PSA GRADING GUARANTEE....read it...since hes selling the card anyway psa would happily give him current market value if they made a grading error....if there is someone on this board who believes that card is exmt....i have many many baseball cards in that condition id like to sell for exmt prices....

Why would you doubt that this card was sent back in to PSA? Even after it resides in the new holder with a brand new flip? Even though Mike was never mentioned in the OP, he has been since and the back story made public, and you are still accusing him of not being upfront and honest - time to apologize.

He did not grade the card. PSA did.

At this point, the grade is not the issue. PSA graded the card, reholdered the card, and it is what it is.

[sflayank]

im still waiting for the proof
he is refusing to show his receipt for sending in the card for review
instead he shows a probable fake email.....if you send in a card for review they get it just like any submission...look at it and send it back....an apology email?..and they dont reholder for free...that card would be an additional 35 for reholder
if his story is true...then with the reholdered card he received a copy of the invoice and receipt
lets see it
as for the flips...aaron rookies ruths and mantles are the most common cards being switched...people should be on the lookout.....that card is 3 grades off
thats sets off a red flag....doesnt mean the flip is fake....but id be cautious

[tschock]

Originally Posted by wilkiebaby11

Just becasue you didnt directly point it out, does not mean you are not 100% implying that that is the particular card that you are referring to.

Agreed. Anyone ever see the "... so I'm selling it as a reprint..." qualifiers on ebay. No one had to infer anything because it was already implied.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by sflayank

im still waiting for the proof
he is refusing to show his receipt for sending in the card for review
instead he shows a probable fake email.....if you send in a card for review they get it just like any submission...look at it and send it back....an apology email?..and they dont reholder for free...that card would be an additional 35 for reholder
if his story is true...then with the reholdered card he received a copy of the invoice and receipt
lets see it
as for the flips...aaron rookies ruths and mantles are the most common cards being switched...people should be on the lookout.....that card is 3 grades off
thats sets off a red flag....doesnt mean the flip is fake....but id be cautious

Still waiting for proof? Mike doesn't owe you anything. I would have told you to f off a long time ago and mind your own business. He has chosen to take the high road and has shown a lot of class in the way he has handled your ridiculous accusations. Perhaps you could learn something from his example.

The apology email appears to be simply for a delay in responding.

The card has clearly been reholdered. The fee for this service is $7, not 35, for a card with a declared value under 5k. Whether or not you feel the card is over graded is irrelevant. I think your sgc 6 Mantle with major centering and tilt issues is over priced and over graded. But I wouldn't start a thread about it.

[TheNightmanCometh]

Originally Posted by sflayank

im still waiting for the proof
he is refusing to show his receipt for sending in the card for review
instead he shows a probable fake email.....if you send in a card for review they get it just like any submission...look at it and send it back....an apology email?..and they dont reholder for free...that card would be an additional 35 for reholder
if his story is true...then with the reholdered card he received a copy of the invoice and receipt
lets see it
as for the flips...aaron rookies ruths and mantles are the most common cards being switched...people should be on the lookout.....that card is 3 grades off
thats sets off a red flag....doesnt mean the flip is fake....but id be cautious

Why should you need to see a copy of the invoice and receipt when he's posted the before and after flip pics of the card? You'd have to be blind as a bat to not see that they are the exact same card in two different pics; one without the hologram and one with. They are the same card and the hologram proves that he resubmitted the card.

Stop with the witch hunt.

[dio]

reholder is the cheap part, the shipping/return shipping+ inusrance probably cost another $50

[Canofcorn]

.....

[MattyC]

Originally Posted by Canofcorn

This will be my last post in this thread. Since you continue to attack my credibility, saying I refuse to show a receipt and providing a probable fake email, here is a screen shot of my PSA order. Clearly, an expert like you realizes I had 2 day Super Express service for $85, and not just a reholder. They would not label it Super Express for a simple reholder. So, there you go.

Right on, Mike. Life is too short for such unnecessary chafing.

You did the stand up thing the stand up way, and happy to hear the card was solid.

Ignore the noise, and enjoy the day

Best,

MC

[111gecko]

Boom

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by 111gecko

Boom

+1

But something tells me that if Larry thought the email was fake, he'll probably think the screen shot is too. I doubt Mike will get an apology.

[basesareempty]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

still waiting for proof? Mike doesn't owe you anything. I would have told you to f off a long time ago and mind your own business. He has chosen to take the high road and has shown a lot of class in the way he has handled your ridiculous accusations. Perhaps you could learn something from his example.

The apology email appears to be simply for a delay in responding.

The card has clearly been reholdered. The fee for this service is $7, not 35, for a card with a declared value under 5k. Whether or not you feel the card is over graded is irrelevant. I think your sgc 6 mantle with major centering and tilt issues is over priced and over graded. But i wouldn't start a thread about it.

bang!!!!!!!!!!

[Canofcorn]

+1

[sflayank]

boy...u must be blind this cards a 4 and its way nicer than your 6

[stlcardsfan]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Amazing. I hope there is more backlash for posting false fraud accusations on this site than there was for posting a joke about a cat.

+1

[sflayank]

thank you

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by sflayank

thank you

Nice apology

[Canofcorn]

Appreciate the kind words from everyone...well, almost everyone.

[Bcwcardz]

Sometimes people do more harm than good as is the case here. Some good but over zealous intentions put the card holder out of some serious green. Almost everyone on this board probably doesn't need to be told to use caution when purchasing cards, even graded ones. Myself I wouldn't be so worried with someone switching cards or flips but more worried that PSA slabbed a counterfeit or altered card. I just think people should be more discreet when calling out a card or case as fake. Look at all the trouble this has caused. Crazy indeed.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

[irv]

Originally Posted by Canofcorn

No need to apoligize Irv. You and I both know and have said on numerous occasions that PSA used to give out some very generous grades....and older 5s and 6s would be 2s, 3s, and 4s today. Take care

Originally Posted by Canofcorn

Appreciate the kind words from everyone...well, almost everyone.

I know what you said above, and I appreciate it very much, but I must apologize again as I had no business to comment in this thread without knowing all the details, or the history (if any) between the two involved parties.

I am not looking for further detail as I don't need, nor want to know. Just stating, I am sorry for appearing to defend the accuser when I didn't know what was fully going on at the time.

[gnpaden]

Mike > Larry. I love when people are proved absolutely wrong and still try to find ways to save face. There may or may not be a member on this board who cannot face the facts when presented with them....and it's not Mike.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by gnpaden

Mike > Larry. I love when people are proved absolutely wrong and still try to find ways to save face. There may or may not be a member on this board who cannot face the facts when presented with them....and it's not Mike.

....and he may have just been schooled, not saying he was, but he may have been.

Geez, what a waste of a thread.

Good luck with your card.

[Republicaninmass]

Just "cleanse" the flip like Larry did on his SGC 80 Mantle. Then nobody will ever know what card it was, or be able to research what you paid for it

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