T206 The Elite 11

[PrewarCollective]

Has anyone went after this and actually completed it? I think it would be a fun subset to chase. Just curious what I’m getting myself into before getting started.

[Yoda]

Austin, after much effort I managed to corral 4 of the elite, but then retired. These cards will be in the Spring auction of LOTG. To my knowledge, only Ted Z. has managed to put together all 11. If you decide to take on the challenge, be patient and talk to your bank manager first.

[atx840]

I was able to put together all 11 a few years ago, about half found in the wild and the rest acquired at Elite prices

Most are gone now.

[Kidnapped18]

There are quite a few collectors attempting to put together this subset whether they admit it or not is another thing

At least 2 or 3 on this board have completed it that I know of

[GeoPoto]

I have the complete Washington subset:

https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1677321535
https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1677321538

[BuzzD]

what is the elite 11?

[tedzan]

Hi BuzzD

Click on this link...... T206 Reference

Then click on Post #742..... which defines the Elite 11.

And, feel free to ask me if you have any questions on this group of Eleven T206 cards.


TED Z
.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hi BuzzD

Click on this link...... T206 Reference

Then click on Post #742..... which defines the Elite 11.

And, feel free to ask me if you have any questions on this group of Eleven T206 cards.


TED Z
.

Thanks for sharing that. I am not a T206 collector but always trying to understand different collectors and love to learn the history of Baseball and always seem to learn alot this way

[nineunder71]

I have the Elite 11 with all EPDG backs, except Dahlen(S150), still looking for that guy

[PrewarCollective]

Originally Posted by nineunder71

I have the Elite 11 with all EPDG backs, except Dahlen(S150), still looking for that guy

I also have this Ewing currently for trade/sale if anyone is interested

That wouldn’t be the elite 11 then. It’s the piedmont 350 backs that make them so tough.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hi BuzzD

Click on this link...... T206 Reference

Then click on Post #742..... which defines the Elite 11.

And, feel free to ask me if you have any questions on this group of Eleven T206 cards.


TED Z
.

Hi, Ted.

It always makes me glad to see you sharing your wealth of knowledge with the community. Thanks, as always.

Eric

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by PrewarCollective

That wouldn’t be the elite 11 then. It’s the piedmont 350 backs that make them so tough.

Austin

The "Elite 11" comprise of the 11 designated subjects with either PIEDMONT 350, or EPDG backs.

My experience collecting these T206 cards is that the EPDG backed cards are just a bit easier to find than thier PIEDMONT 350 counterparts.

Nevertheless, both backs are really tough to find. I've been collecting this special group of 11 cards since 2006. My experience indicates that
Dahlen, Lundgren and Spencer appear to be somewhat tougher than the other 8 in this group.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[PrewarCollective]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Austin

The "Elite 11" comprise of the 11 designated subjects with either PIEDMONT 350, or EPDG backs.

My experience collecting these T206 cards is that the EPDG backed cards are just a bit easier to find than thier PIEDMONT 350 counterparts.

Nevertheless, both backs are really tough to find. I've been collecting this special group of 11 cards since 2006. My experience indicates that
Dahlen, Lundgren and Spencer appear to be somewhat tougher than the other 8 in this group.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

I actually did not know that! Thanks for educating me!

[t206fanatic]

i completed it, one of my favorite subsets.

The Schulte Front View is an odd one, a 1/1 with the p350 back but probably more out there?

[Kidnapped18]

Like Ted Z posted earlier the Elite 11 can have Piedmont 350 (P350) backs or El Principe De Gales backs (EPDG)
And yes they are extremely tough to find with either back
PSA has only graded ~125 with the P350 label, older graded T206's simply have T206 or T206 Piedmont so you would need a scan of the back to see if it is P150 or P350
Also keep in mind that some of these are crossovers or crack outs from SGC slabs

Originally Posted by PrewarCollective

That wouldn’t be the elite 11 then. It’s the piedmont 350 backs that make them so tough.

[Kidnapped18]

The Elite 11 subjects can be found with these backs according to my notes:
Dahlen: EPDG, Hindu, Piedmont 150, Piedmont 350, Sovereign 150, Sweet Caporal 150/25 and Sweet Caporal 150/30
Ewing: EPDG, Hindu, Piedmont 150, Piedmont 350, Sovereign 150, Sweet Caporal 150/25, Sweet Caporal 150/30 and Sweet Caporal 150/649 Overprint
Ganley: EPDG, Hindu, Piedmont 150, Piedmont 350, Sovereign 150, Sweet Caporal 150/25 and Sweet Caporal 150/30
Jones: EPDG, Hindu, Piedmont 150, Piedmont 350, Sovereign 150, Sweet Caporal 150/25, Sweet Caporal 150/30 and Sweet Caporal 150/649 Overprint
Karger: EPDG, Piedmont 150, Piedmont 350, Sovereign 150, Sweet Caporal 150/25 and Sweet Caporal 150/30
Lindaman: EPDG, Hindu, Piedmont 150, Piedmont 350, Sovereign 150, Sweet Caporal 150/25 and Sweet Caporal 150/30
Lundgren: EPDG, Piedmont 150 and Piedmont 350
Mullin: EPDG, Piedmont 150, Piedmont 350, Sovereign 150, Sweet Caporal 150/25 and Sweet Caporal 150/30
Schaefer: EPDG, Piedmont 150, Piedmont 350, Sovereign 150, Sweet Caporal 150/25 and Sweet Caporal 150/30
Shaw: EPDG, Hindu, Piedmont 150, Piedmont 350, Sovereign 150, Sweet Caporal 150/25 and Sweet Caporal 150/30
Spencer: EPDG, Hindu, Piedmont 150, Piedmont 350, Sovereign 150, Sweet Caporal 150/25, Sweet Caporal 150/30 and Sweet Caporal 150/649 Overprint

[nineunder71]

Haha, you have a lot to learn, good luck

Originally Posted by PrewarCollective

That wouldn’t be the elite 11 then. It’s the piedmont 350 backs that make them so tough.

[nineunder71]

Jeff,
That Schulte, oh my!!

Thanks for sharing, I haven’t seen or thought about him in a bit!!

Cheers,
Colton

Originally Posted by t206fanatic

i completed it, one of my favorite subsets.

The Schulte Front View is an odd one, a 1/1 with the p350 back but probably more out there?

[tedzan]

Regarding the Schulte (PIEDMONT 350)....this card was in Joe Pelaez collection back in the early 1990's.

So far, it is "unique", as no other one has been discovered. I think it is simply a printing oddity.

And, until this Schulte is found with an EPDG back, it cannot be considered as part of the Elite 11 group.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[Pat R]

If you combine the PSA & SGC pop numbers with the past sales the Spencer would be the toughest Piedmont 350 to acquire and the Lundgren would be the easiest.

Spencer = 17
Shaw = 21
Dahlen = 22
Lindaman = 22
Jones = 26
Mullin = 28
Schaefer = 28
Ewing = 29
Karger = 29
Ganley = 46
Lundgren = 51

[Kidnapped18]

My numbers for the Elite 11 P350 are as follows:
*For PSA I included only the ones labeled Piedmont 350
Subject
Bill Dahlen = 11 PSA 1 SGC 12 Total
Tubby Spencer = 8 PSA 4 SGC 12 Total
George Mullin = 9 PSA 5 SGC 14 Total
Vive Lindaman = 9 PSA 7 SGC 16 Total
G. Schaefer = 8 PSA 9 SGC 17 Total
Al Shaw = 9 PSA 8 SGC 17 Total
Tom Jones = 10 PSA 8 SGC 18 Total
Bob Ewing = 15 PSA 4 SGC 19 Total
Ed Karger = 12 PSA 8 SGC 20 Total
Bob Ganley = 12 PSA 15 SGC 27 Total
Carl Lundgren = 21 PSA 20 SGC 41 Total

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by Kidnapped18

My numbers for the Elite 11 P350 are as follows:
*For PSA I included only the ones labeled Piedmont 350
Subject
Bill Dahlen = 11 PSA 1 SGC 12 Total
Tubby Spencer = 8 PSA 4 SGC 12 Total
George Mullin = 9 PSA 5 SGC 14 Total
Vive Lindaman = 9 PSA 7 SGC 16 Total
G. Schaefer = 8 PSA 9 SGC 17 Total
Al Shaw = 9 PSA 8 SGC 17 Total
Tom Jones = 10 PSA 8 SGC 18 Total
Bob Ewing = 15 PSA 4 SGC 19 Total
Ed Karger = 12 PSA 8 SGC 20 Total
Bob Ganley = 12 PSA 15 SGC 27 Total
Carl Lundgren = 21 PSA 20 SGC 41 Total

Your pop numbers are the same as mine but my numbers also have the past public sales added.

[Kidnapped18]

Ok thanks Pat
That's what I figured that you included the prior sales numbers to

[Eggoman]

So to those of you who chase these Elite 11s, what is a TYPICAL Average Price for them (if there is such a thing...) ASSUMING that the Seller knows what they have...

Let's say a PSA 2 or 2 or equivalent...

[tedzan]

Hi Greg

I usually have these cards graded Vg (or better) for sale. At the Philly Show I have no problem getting $500 for most of them.
With the exception of Dahlen and Spencer. Dahlen usually goes for $1000....and, Spencer $1500 - 1900.

At the National they all sell for more.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[Eggoman]

Hey Ted:

I MUCH APPRECIATE your input!

Are these prices for the Piedmont Backs or the EPDGs OR EITHER???

I think that I might know where there IS one!

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Eggoman

Hey Ted:

I MUCH APPRECIATE your input!

Are these prices for the Piedmont Backs or the EPDGs OR EITHER???

I think that I might know where there IS one!

Greg

I usually don't differentiate between the Piedmont 350 or the EPDG's regarding their pricing.

OH, I forgot to mention Lundgren in my previous post. I usually sell his card (Vg) for $2000 - 2500.

Contrary to the above listed Pop Report data, Lundgren is a tougher card to find. That Pop Report data regarding Lundgren
is misleading as it reflects multiple "cross-over" grading instances.

My first Lundgren (EPDG) card (displayed here) was acquired in 1984. And, I have acquired a good number of the Elite 11
Lundgren's (PD or EPDG) these past 40 years; therefore, I'm telling you how it really is.


.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[Kidnapped18]

Ted, thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge re: the Elite 11 and T206s in general.

As always collectors should use the PSA and SGC Pop Reports as guides only...not hard, accurate, scientific data.

I noticed PSA does have a Registry entry for the Piedmont 350 Elite 12 (Elite 11 plus the lone Schulte FV) Five sets are currently registered and two sets have been retired.

[Kidnapped18]

Jeff

Congrats on completing the P350 Elite 11 and sharing pics of your set!!
Doubtful that we see another P350 Schulte FV anytime soon...great pickup from Heritage!

[Pat R]

A lot of people criticize the accuracy of the pop reports but they are an important tool and are actually pretty accurate if you know how to use them correctly. Us collectors are responsible for most of the inaccuracy's in the pop reports with the crack out re-submit and re-grades.

If you compare two subjects that are fairly equal like two regular commons or two fairly equal HOF's you will get a pretty accurate gauge from the pop reports. There are instances that require other tools like past sales and general knowledge to get a better gauge. The Lundgren is a good example because he is one of the higher profile commons who is more likely to be graded and re-graded but he's also more likely to come up for sale and most people that collect T206's know that his PD350's come up for sale as often as any of the other 10 with the exception of Ganley. If someone is attempting A Piedmont elite 11 they will have more opportunity's to pick up a Lungren than they will a Spencer or Shaw and the pop reports, past sales and general knowledge all reflect that.

[tedzan]

Since 1984, I have had many T206 Lundgren (Cubs) cards through-out the years. His cards have always fascinated me.
His 150/350 Series cards were printed with only 3 different backs, as shown here. Also, I have included my "blue-less"
Lundgren printing error for 's






---------------------------------


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[Pat R]

Lundgren is an interesting subject for sure Ted. His Kansas City version only comes with 4 backs and is actually about as tough as his Chicago version in general. Together both versions are only available with 5 different backs.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Pat R

Lundgren is an interesting subject for sure Ted. His Kansas City version only comes with 4 backs and is actually about as tough as his Chicago version in general. Together both versions are only available with 5 different backs.

Hi Pat.... Yes, Lundgren is an interesting subject.

Lundgren is a University of Illinois (Champaign-Urbana) Engineering graduate. I guess that's part of the reason I like him. When I was in the Air Force (stationed in central Illinois),
I attended Engineering courses there.
Anyhow, Lundgren had a fairly good pitching record (91 - 55, W-L). He left the Cubs on April 23, 1909. And, perhaps that is why American Litho Short-Printed his MLB card.





Furthermore, that (short-printing) may explain why the Dahlen (Boston) and Tubby Spencer cards are tougher to find. Both their careers changed during the period of when these
Elite 11 cards were being printed.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hi Pat.... Yes, Lundgren is an interesting subject.

Lundgren is a University of Illinois (Champaign-Urbana) Engineering graduate. I guess that's part of the reason I like him. When I was in the Air Force (stationed in central Illinois),
I attended Engineering courses there.
Anyhow, Lundgren had a fairly good pitching record (91 - 55, W-L). He left the Cubs on April 23, 1909. And, perhaps that is why American Litho Short-Printed his MLB card.





Furthermore, that (short-printing) may explain why the Dahlen (Boston) and Tubby Spencer cards are tougher to find. Both their careers changed during the period of when these
Elite 11 cards were being printed.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

I don't think that's the reason Ted, for example Ganley who is the most populous of the elite 11 was picked up by Philadelphia off waivers in May 1909.

Lundgren who is depicted with Kansas City on his print group 2 T206's never even played for them. He was picked up off waivers by Brooklyn in May 1909 and was immediately sold to Toronto for $1000 who then sold him to Kansas City in June 1909 but he never played for them.

[Kidnapped18]

This Mullin P350 SGC 2 sold last week

[Prof]

Anyone have an estimate on the value of a Lindaman Piedmont 350?

I'd say it's roughly a PSA 3-4, but with a bit of pen marking on the back.

The only sale I can find is a Heritage PSA 3 that went for 2300 a few months ago. It's on par with this one, but with the marks on back.

Heritage Auction Page

[Ronnie73]

Originally Posted by Prof

Anyone have an estimate on the value of a Lindaman Piedmont 350?

I'd say it's roughly a PSA 3-4, but with a bit of pen marking on the back.

The only sale I can find is a Heritage PSA 3 that went for 2300 a few months ago. It's on par with this one, but with the marks on back.

Heritage Auction Page

Hi, I'm not sure why that Lindaman sold for so much. I guess a couple people really needed this card. This is one of the easier cards to find. Spencer has been known to be the most difficult, and I'd sell my raw one for $2200 or trade it for a Lundgren that I'm still missing. (Also missing Tom Jones) Not because I couldn't find one, It's just every time one came along, I was already spending all my money for the month on some other stuff. I bought my raw Lindaman Piedmont 350 for $65. I believe I got it from Dean's Card's. It was before they knew about the "Elite" cards. I actually bought 4 raw elites from them as commons. It was my payback to them screwing me over on a T205 Collins Yellow Elephant. I've owned 2 to 3 of each card over the years, except for the two I'm missing. It's my own fault. At one point, I was going to try and purchase every Spencer that came along. At the time, only 2 total were graded between PSA and SGC. I'm down to 2 Spencers. My PSA 2.5 which is part of my set, and the raw, which was SGC graded but cracked for a binder, and don't remember the grade. My raw Spencer is the last of my extras.

I've seen the elites sell cheap, but this one has got me confused. I used to value the commons around $200-$300 per grade point. ($200 if there was an ink mark) The Heritage one from the David Hall collection was a PSA 4 and sold for $1500 and I feel T206 prices were a little stronger in 2020 when his sold, than they were in 2022. It all comes down to needing just two people that want it really bad. Hopefully others will chime in, that have been watching the prices closer. I used to study and watch the prices for all combo's on a full time basis. I just don't have the time for that anymore, plus it was harder to estimate anything for this set after 2019.

[Ronnie73]

This Lundgren helps make up for the missing Piedmont 350 that I still need.