Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material

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Posted By: Jim Clarke

I am a consignor of the last two Mastro auctions. I have noticed in the "new" Legendary auction there is possible (most likely) material of mine that I have NEVER been paid for yet from the last Mastro auction. I still consider this mine as Mastro never even had a signed contract on me. Doug Allen was supposed to look though material and then work with me on a plan on selling it. Should I get local authorities involved?

Doug Allen should be ashamed for NOT returning phone calls. I feel like he is hiding and dodging his obligations to me (From who I trusted). What legal issues would they face if "Mastro Auctions" bought my material from their auctions and then Legendary "bought" Mastro assets then who is responsible for making payment to me. There is an old saying "You can put lipstick on a pig, but at the end of the day, it is still a PIG"

Any help woukld be awsesome! I never thought dealing with Doug Allen or Mastro would ever put me in this postion. Being a long term card collector and a current consignor.

JC

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Posted By: Anonymous

If you email me with your phone number, I'll call you and we can discuss this. Let me tell you what I learned yesterday.
Our first stop should be the Illinois Attorney General's office. Their web site if very helpful. Download a consumer complaint form and submit it immediately.
Since Mastro's departure had something to do with an FBI investigation, it may pay to communicate with them. The auction business is considered interstate commerce, so it's an issue that involves federal law enforcement agencies.
But, don't panic. I believe your check is forthcoming and your material may be safely in the hands of the Legendary people. If Doug fails to get back to you, you may choose to withdraw your material from their sale, a move I am currently considering.

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Posted By: leon

But lets be careful about anonymity in this thread please......I will try to help today Jim but I am busy too....

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Posted By: Jeff Prizner

Did they pull your stuff Jim? I think I know of a few things that you were referring to and now I can no longer find them in the auction.

edited to add: whoops, nevermind, I was mixing up Goodwin and Legendary.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Hmmmm..if they were trying to divest themselves from Mastro they've done a very poor job of it. Where did the capital come from to start up this Legendary Auctions company? What gives Legendary the right to sell items that were consigned to Mastro? How do they reconcile their books for the IRS if Legendary cuts checks for items that were consigned to Mastro?

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Posted By: leon

I really don't know the whole story here but I just spoke to Doug and he has left a message for JC this morning and is trying to contact him.....regards

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Posted By: Mark

Legendary Auctions is a company formed by several of the former Mastro Auctions principals. It does not include Bill Mastro or Brian Marren.

They acquired the assets and the good will of Mastro Auctions. Thus, any consignments you made to Mastro before the events of March are now in the possession of Legendary, who will include them in their own sales. If you don't want them to offer your material in their sales, you should direct them to return your material. Since they have not been reliable answering phone calls (and since their customer service manager is new, not very knowledgeable and helpless in getting Doug Allen to return calls), you should probably make your request in writing, via certified mail/return receipt requested. Save all correspondences to Legendary, in case you have problems later.

I had sent several lots to Brian Marren at Mastro before the events of March. They were destined for sales in April and June. The Legendary web site shows that my material is in their possession and that one lot I consigned will be offered in the April sale (I received my catalog yesterday and found this lot included). Although I considered requesting my material be returned, I think one lot is not too much to risk as a test of whether Legendary can run a lively and trustworthy sale.

Since Doug Allen had not returned any of my messages, I called Ron Oser, who was very cordial and did what he could to reassure me that Legendary would run a tighter ship than Mastro. Only time will tell. I expressed to him my concern that some Mastro clients would be apprehensive about bidding in Legendary sales until their integrity was demonstrated. Furthermore, I expressed to him my concern that Doug Allen's failure to address his clients concerns would further feed fears about the state of the business. He said he would communicate this concern to Doug.

Finally, I have not received my settlement check from Mastro's February sale. Ron Oser informs me that those checks will go out from Mastro next month, one month late. Obviously, that creates some concern about Mastro's ability to meet its financial obligations.
Accordingly, I have sent a written statement to the State of Illinois Attorney General's Office (their web site has a form you can download), along with a copy of my consignors contract and proof that my lots sold.
I have also added my name to the list of defrauded clients of Mastro through the Chicago field office of the FBI, where the investigation of Mastro's practices is based. If I receive a settlement check and that check clears, I will withdraw all of the above complaints.

This is a crisis in the collecting community, but not a cause for panic. Remaining auction houses will take up the slack and will, if they're smart, be transparent: they will demonstrate to their clients that they do not tolerate shilling, alteration of material, preferential grading or any other unethical or illegal practice. Since the auction business involves interstate commerce, it is overseen by the feds. I don't think auction houses want to take the risks Bill Mastro took in this environment. We're all going to be better for it. Once this crisis passes, both buyers and sellers will be happy once again.

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Posted By: leon

This last post will stand as I now know Marks last name and he is only trying to help the hobby. I hope all of this stuff gets settled and worked out so the hobby can be more enjoyable. I never have an issue with anyone posting anything if they aren't anonymous. I will never protect anyone or any company, whether they are an advertiser, friend or whatever. I just won't do it and 100% of the history of this board, since I became moderator, will bear that out...best regards

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Posted By: boxingcardman

All I can say on reading this thread is "wow". What a mess. Jim, I hope it works out for you.

Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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Posted By: James Feagin

I received Legendary's catalog yesterday with Brian Marren's name as the shipper. If he is no longer involved, that should probably be changed.

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Posted By: Alan

Can Doug still be invited to speak at the Net54 dinner ?

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Posted By: leon

Doug has already said he will be speaking at the National Net54 Dinner.

Also, there is no need to call the police, as the title of this thread asks. They are reading this thread with great interest..... There is a lot more here than meets the eye. I just spoke to Doug again and he said he will call Mark today. I think he said he has already tried emailing him. If any auction house is clean today I think it's Legendary. They are under an electron microscope. best regards

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Posted By: Jay

Leon--Interesting choice of words--you have to be dead to be under an electron microscope.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Dead...and very, very small.

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Posted By: Anthony S.

Jay,

Not for the enormous electron microscope I'm building in my dunge...uh, basement.

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Posted By: Steve

Wow indeed.

Time for a nap.


ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ


Steve

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Posted By: Jason L

read in tandem, made me LOL....that read perfectly like some sort of Seinfeld dialogue. Well done, you two.

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Posted By: leon

I just received another call from Doug as he was driving. He is concerned about folks thinking he is hiding or not getting back to them on purpose. He assures me that is not the case. He said he got one message from Mark, yesterday, at about 11. Any messages going to any Mastro venue are not getting to him. His cell # is 630-336-6650. He said to call him 7x24. He does put it on silence when he is sleeping but otherwise he has it on. If you get his voice mail then leave one and he will call back. His email is also working at Legendary and I think that email is dallen@legendaryauctions.com .....So there you have it.....best regards

ps...I guess "electron microscope" wasn't the best wording.....

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

We are all under the Hubble Telescope.

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Posted By: Mark

Yes, I just spoke with Doug Allen. After speaking with Ron Oser yesterday and Doug Allen today, I feel reassured that the Legendary people are doing all they can do to insure the integrity of their business. Mastro consignors, Doug says, will be paid soon. Consignments sent to Mastro destined for April or June are safely in the Legendary offices. Doug is aware of his need to calm frayed nerves and his availability goes a long way to achieve that. I will refrain from further comment and will hold off on my plans to send documentation of my outstanding settlement check to the Illinois AG's office.
I will notify fellow collectors once I receive my settlement check. I appreciate the opportunity to share my experiences and my thoughts with others through this forum, but it's time to put this issue to bed.

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Posted By: Jim Clarke

I too have spoke to Doug once today, as it was brief. He has personally guaranteed me that I will be pd soon. I will "Dido" everything Mark wrote even though I have not followed in his footsteps yet, in alerting agencies of what has happened. Going public is the last thing I wanted to do. However I felt it was important that companies and individuals are held accountable. I never imagined that Mastro would ever close it's door. I feel like I hit the lottery. JC AKA Husband-Of-Tammy

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Jim, personal guarantees from Mastro are great, right? I'm glad things worked out for you.

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Posted By: boxingcardman

LOL here in LA

Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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Posted By: Bruce Dorskind

Seems to us that the only Legendary item in this auction
was "trust" and it was graded trimmed


Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List

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Posted By: Aaron M.

Bruce Dorskind is on fire lately. His post was profound and aptly describes this situation.

The threshold issue I can't get over is that Doug took Mastro consignments and listed them under Legendary without the consigners consent or even notification. If that's not illegal, it's unethical to say the least.

Leon, your endorsement and middle-man servicing aside, I would think that there is at least one cleaner auction house out there -- one that has never allowed it's employees to shill lots, has promoted "honest auto-bid" from day one, was the only major auction house to agree to stringent (but long overdue) authentication disclosure requirements, and is not the target of a federal criminal investigation and hasn't had to change its operating name in fly by night manner.

Sadly, if more auctioneers had followed this distinguished gentleman's lead, these messes could have easily been avoided.

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Posted By: john

The investors/new owners, that make up Legendary Auctions, purchased the assets of Mastro auctions. Those assets included, I assume, the client lists, contacts, equipment, and consignment contracts. Those consignment contracts would now be owned by the new company, Legendary Auctions. Here's a similar example: I have my cell phone agreement with Alltel. My bill now reads "Verizon", as they purchased Alltel. My contract, under the same terms, is owned by the new owner, Verizon. Just a simple example to show what happens when one company is purchased by another. I had consignments with Mastro. I'm thrilled to have them in Doug Allens hands, with the new company and its new owners, Legendary Auctions.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

John, your analogy, as you surely know, is flawed -- unless your new cell phone company is run by the very same people as your old cell phone company.

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Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

Did the terms of consignment agreements permit Masto to transfer consigned material to another company without consent? Legendary, after all, is pitching itself as a new company, not just a continuation of Mastro by another name. I don't know the answer as I have not consigned to Mastro.

The phone company analogy is not that on point, they aren't transferring your consigned property, just the obligations under a service contract.

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Posted By: leon

You are truly ignorant is all I can say....

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Posted By: marty q

"Did the terms of consignment agreements permit Masto to transfer consigned material to another company without consent?"

very good ? peter s. very good. i would like to know the answer..

but in all fairness to doug and the gang at legendary, if you ask to have your items returned i am sure he/they would..

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Posted By: john

Jeff- The new company is not run by the same people. Mastro had a staff of 30 or more. Bill Mastro CEO...gone, Brian Marren head of aquisitions...gone, and many more. It all boils down to this: Do you have a problem with Doug Allen, Ron Oser, or Mark Theotikis? I personally have had nothing but honorable dealings with these three, specifically.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

So what you're saying is that all of the problems with Mastro were due to the actions of Bill Mastro and Brian Marren? Oh wait, let me guess: there were no problems with Mastro. Got it.

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Posted By: Rand

this is a good one, Jeff spent alot of money with Mastro. his remarks towards the company and indirectly towards Doug are not favorable. Yet he has never actually called out Doug, just continues to jab at him and make remarks about his disgust with Mastro's operation. i do not believe i have ever read a post from Jeff supporting Doug and giving him a pass, pat on the back, or sign of faith going forward. i am not sure if Jeff will be bidding in Doug's new auction, or if Doug has banned Jeff from being a bidder.

at the end of the day, this entire thing (mastro, legendary) is a debacle. the next 2 auctions will be ok with the material in hand. the real question is longevity. can they acquire consignments and support the costs of running a new company and paying themselves a salary. i dont think it will be easy.

if a restaurant makes people sick and gets shut down for food poisoning, and the manager decides to buy it and reopen it a month later with a new name, same menu, same look, ect.. it would take a long time to get the operation viable again, if ever. Cash flow is crucial to sustain a business through the tough times. we'll see.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Legendary Auctions will be fine. I've heard some complaints how this auction doesn't stack up to a Mastro and whatnot, but I have to tell you that there are some really incredible lots in this current auction. Pinback collectors should be very happy. And some of the stuff they already have for their next auction is just flat out incredible. I still have questions about their operation, but once again they will be fine because in the end if they have the stuff we need (want? yeah right) we'll bid.

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Posted By: Rand

dan, the next two auctions are set, i mentioned that. its not about now, its about securing consignments over the long hall. those catalogs are expensive, trips to card shows, salary, rent, electical, grading fees, ect,ect. they wont be having $5,000,000 auctions every other month. the economy is tight, no bank will give them a large line of credit to pay consignors up front, competition is fierce! Heritage has some incredible material right now, REA is off the chain, one of the whales has passed away, it will not be easy for them.

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Posted By: Aaron M.

leon wrote:

"Aaron

You are truly ignorant is all I can say...."


Then enlighten me, Leon.

Did Doug receive consent from, or even notify, his consignors when he "purchased the assets" of Mastro and listed their lots for "Legendary" when had been intended to be offered by Mastro?

Did Mastro allow its employees to bid on its auctions for years?

Same question for REA.

Did Mastro keep records of its bidding history?

Same question for REA, with respect to their "honest auto-bid" system.

Did Mastro agree to MEARS' stringent requirements on authentication and conflict of interest disclosure?

Same question for REA.

Is Mastro the target of a federal criminal investigation?

Same question for REA.

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Posted By: Aaron M.

That's the right question -- did the terms of Mastro consignment agreement allow for assignment or transfer? Simple question. Anyone sign or seen one of these that can speak to that?

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Posted By: Aaron M.

John, you just totally undermined your own analogy.

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Posted By: leon

It's not my job to enlighten you. Ignorance is bliss.....have a good day.

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Posted By: Aaron M.

Got it, Leon. I didn't expect you to answer those questions since they challenge your bizarrely reversed view of those two auction houses, but as I've said before your loyalty is admirable.

Whatever Doug and his crew do, you stand behind them and even now as complaints about their activities and customer service continue, you are there to help them and continue to protect and fight for their good name.

You are a good friend to Doug.

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Posted By: Anthony N.

Aaron- Leon has been a good friend to those of us (myself included) that were unable to get paid from Mastro, despite many attempts to contact them thru a variety of channels. He got swift settlement.
I don't really care who else he's friends with, I'm just glad to count him among one of mine.

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Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

Someone here must have consigned to Mastro who can answer the question?

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Posted By: marty q

aaron- if you go to rea hom page and also read their catolog i think a bunch of your questions will get answers..and if you need to know call rob lifson yourself...he is honest and forthright as they come.to mention rea in the same breath as the "old" mastro is not right. maybe i am biased but rob runs a fine ship. this is not news btw, i am surprised you called rea out with the same questions?? "nothing" has ever been writen or rumored of rea having problems like bill mastro and his former co. be careful aaron, rob is well liked and also respected "because" of how he does buisness. again this is no secret, that is why i am a little surprised you dont know.

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Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

You are missing Aaron's point I think, which is to CONTRAST REA with Mastro. The questions are rhetorical.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Marty,

I may not understand his point but it read to me that Aaron was trying to make the point that the answer to all the questions about Rob would be in the positive and about Mastro would be in the negative. I think he is suggesting that Mastro did all these questionable practices while Rob runs a clean ship.

Jim

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Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

I think two of the answers for REA, as Aaron intended it, would be negative -- employees bidding and criminal investigation.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Aaron,

If dealers were really interested in providing their customers a valuable service they would answer these questions and others. Most have refused to answer them in a public forum in the past although other dealers who the question was not directed to jumped in and answered the questions.

There are a lot of shady characters in the hobby and a lot of bad things that go on. There is a reason that many dealers are reluctant to talk.

Jim

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Posted By: barrysloate

Jim- while I have no need to defend the less than scrupulous dealers, many who did not respond to your questionaire had never even posted on this board a single time. So I guess they weren't going to start by being cross examined.

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Posted By: Rand

ok, doug has been put on point and bashed. WHO is NOT going to support Legendary's new auction? i am curious about Jeff L's answer as many others. there are not any cards in this auction i will be bidding on , if i am even allowed to. i certainly wont consign, easier to put on ebay, at least i can control the pricing (but it now or best offer) and get paid right away after it sells.

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Posted By: Dave F

Crandell-

Aren't you on top of the world after last week? Don't turn this into something exploratory again please.