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  #1  
Old 12-16-2003, 03:02 PM
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Posted By: shammus

I realize there isn't a lot of information out there regarding strip sets in general (ie...w555, w519, w572, etc...) and some of these cards are really hideous looking anyway, but I was interested in finding some more information on these sets in as a whole. Anyone know of a good online source for these cards? I guess I'm looking for a site that's informative about the "w" cards the way Pete Calderon's site is for the Caramel/"E" cards. Also, does anyone who frequents this forum collect these types of cards? Thanks guys!

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  #2  
Old 12-16-2003, 03:32 PM
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Posted By: Paul

A uncut sheet of W560 cards. You are right they are not the greatest in the world. They are different though.

Paul

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  #3  
Old 12-16-2003, 04:14 PM
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Posted By: mike

Perhaps someone else can help you, as I didn't have any luck finding much...

BUT I AM GLAD YOU ASKED!! It inspired me to find out more about pre-war in general, and I found a few very interesting sites on the history of baseball card collecting...


http://www.oldbaseball.com/refs/burdick.html

http://www.geocities.com/chrisstufflestreet/history.html

http://members.tripod.com/TheSportsCardBroker/CH2.htm

------------------------
ALthough I couldn't find any sites specifically on "w" cards, I did find the following "blurbs", which you may or may not have known already...


================================================== ==

During the years just before and after World War I baseball cards were not issued with either candy or tobacco, but were sold in strips. These strip cards were of low quality on cheap paper and of inferior color. However, almost all of the baseball stars of the era appeared on these cards such as: Ty Cobb, Tris Speaker, Babe Ruth, Rogers Hornsby, and Walter Johnson. Collecting these sets can be highly challenging and enjoyable, moreover, they are fairly inexpensive.*
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
W514 Strip Card, 1928
The letter "W" is the baseball card designation for strip cards. Strip cards were one of the first baseball cards actually sold as such and not given away as a premium when purchasing another product. These cards were usually sold in sheets or strips of 8, 10 or 25 cards for a penny and were designed to be cut apart along the dotted lines by the purchaser. Since most of the purchasers were kids, it is hard to find these cards with straight cuts. The cards were also generally of low quality with poor artwork and printed on inferior paper stock which tends to discolor easily.
Even though Babe Ruth had been already been playing in the major leagues for 14 years when this card was made, few baseball cards of any kind were produced during that time, so this is actually one of his first cards.
================================================== ========

When the United States entered the second World War, there was widespread rationing of goods necessary for war materials. Since these rationed goods included paper, printing ink, sugar and rubber, and because industrial printing presses and chewing gum manufacturing plants were converted to military use, it was not economically feasible for gum companies to issue baseball cards until after the end of the war. Additionally, most of the biggest names in baseball had left the field to serve in the military. Few baseball card sets appeared, but in 1943 MP & Co. issued a set of 24 cards.
The 1943 set, designated as R302-1 in the American Card Catalog, was issued in strips and sold in candy stores. Interestingly, these cards have been given an "R" designation in the ACC, rather than the "W" given to most strip cards; perhaps their late issue date was a factor.
Thanks to the shortage of paper and printing supplies, the cards show a definite loss of quality when compared to 1930s gum cards. Card fronts feature a crude drawing of a player (which doesn't even closely resemble the player featured), with his name inside a baseball in the lower corner. On the back of the 1943 cards, there is a brief write-up of the player's career. Above the write-up is the player's full name, position and team. None of the 1943 cards are numbered. Along the bottom are two items: "Mp & Co., N.Y.C." and "Made in U.S.A."
In 1949, MP & Co. issued another 24-card set. While only six of the players in its 1943 set remained, many of the pictures were recycled. The 1949 card fronts feature the same design as the 1943 set, the backs are different. In the 1949 set, the player's commonly-known name is used instead of his full name, most cards are numbered, and the two copyright items found along the bottom are missing.
Despite their historical significance, these cards aren't widely collected. Since the quality of the paper and printing was low, they have been prone to damage; few cards exist today in top condition. Although many Hall of Famers can be found in each set, many collectors stay away from cards where the drawings don't resemble the featured player. Since a lot of collectors don't know much about these cards, they can be found at great bargains and offer a great opportunity for average collectors to pick up cards of Hall of Fame players.



MIKE (AKA YOUME)

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  #4  
Old 12-16-2003, 07:01 PM
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Posted By: Marty

I have a group of W555's that I am considering grading. These cards ar so small that I think they would look much better in a holder. PSA does not show any in their Pop Report and SGC shows 119 graded. They are all fairly decent, stars and commons. Several of the commons that I have should be several grades higher than what have been graded so far. I will be looking to sell these in the future, and I am wondering if there is anyone working on graded sets of any strip cards.
Does anyone have experience with graded strip cards as to how edges are looked at; well cut just inside the lines, on the lines or a little ragged with the whole line showing? I seen to recall hearing that they do not look kindly on recently cut from strip cards.

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  #5  
Old 12-16-2003, 07:56 PM
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Posted By: shammus


Mike, thanks for the info, I appreciate you looking all of that up. I've read a couple of those articles myself. Some of these cards are God-awful looking. But I like some of the sets...the w555, w560, w572 amongst others are nice.

Marty, I think with the W555's if you can see a black border around the card, you'll be ok. I have a w555 Honus Wagner that's been graded as an SGC 60. I would post it here, but I've run out of Temporary File space on this server so I have to wait a couple days. I am looking to gather a few cards from these sets and maybe put a set together. Not too sure how they are graded but be careful. I sent what I thought was a really nice Jimmie Foxx w560 rookie card in to SGC to be graded and it came back as "Too Short". So they will refuse to grade them if they aren't wide enough. As far as jagged edges are concerned...not sure....

Marty, let me know how your w555 cards turn out, I'd possibly be interested in purchasing some or all of them. Keep me posted!

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  #6  
Old 12-16-2003, 09:58 PM
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Posted By: brian p

Because quite a few of the issues are so darn ugly, there is a real aversion to the whole group of strip cards. I think even a member of this board mentioned that they are really only good for rolling up tobacco and smoking 'em, or something silly like that. When you add the fact that they were distributed in strips and thus needed to have some of their borders hand cut, and that they were not associated with a product like most of our favorite vintage cards, you come up with a lack of interest, and the deficit of hobby literature reflects this. There are really no comprehensive sources of information on them, and through the years probably only a scattered amount of articles concerning them have been published.

I have mentioned this before, some of the issues are relatively appealing, and because of their bad reputation, can usually be found cheaper than any other vintage card--but you have to be willing to tolerate plenty of uneven borders. I personally think most of the photographic issues, such as the ones related to the E120 and E121 American Caramel issues (W501, W572, W573 and W575-1) to be worthwhile. The Autograph on Shoulder series, the W575-2, sport some different and incredibly nice photos. And the W574 are a nice, different looking set. Some people also like the larger size W517 cards. And the W555 utilize headshot photos seen in other 1910 era issues> The Encyclopedia of Baseball Cards by Lew Lipset, in the E (candy issues) volume, probably has the best collected information on W sets, as all the photographic issues are covered that are related to candy issues (these being the W501, W502, W555, W572, W573, and W575 cards).

The small sized color drawing and colorized photo cards are where most of the incredibly low opinions on strip cards derive. The artwork is crude, the coloration is unappealing, they make me cringe usually upon seeing them. However, there are some decent issues to be seen--you just have to adjust your tastes some. The W514 and W551 cards have, in my opinion, the best artwork and overall design. And I even have grown fond of the W515 set, which have very vibrant color and sport caricature-like depictions of players that remind me of comic book villians.

Although they might not be well documented or thought highly of, one thing you can rely upon is that for the most part they are cheap. Couple this with some artwork/designs that you can tolerate or even perhaps appreciate, and you've got a real hobby bargain.

Brian

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  #7  
Old 12-17-2003, 03:20 AM
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Posted By: warshawlaw

I've had a few W cards graded by SGC. If the card is within the parameters of the series (cut on the cut lines or measures up) I've not had a problem, even with recently cut cards. The last 2 I sent in were oversized and I trimmed them down to the dotted lines and had them graded. Same for Bazooka issues.

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  #8  
Old 12-17-2003, 09:33 AM
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Posted By: shammus


Thanks War, that answers something I was really curious about -- if the card is oversized or has jagged edges that go beyond the border, are you allowed to "neaten" the card up for it to be graded and not considered "altered/trimmed"

Interesting, I suppose altering your cards can work out for you in this case (whereas normally its unethical and diminishes the value of the card upon discovery)....just as long as you have room around the dotted lines or other boundaries with which to work.

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  #9  
Old 12-17-2003, 01:20 PM
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Posted By: fkw

Some of the "W" Series cards are attractive in my opinion, I like the colorful look to them. Here are a couple uncataloged cards (below). The set was just cataloged within last 2 years in the SCD but the Ruth and Collins are yet to be cataloged. W519- Numbered 2 (pg. 545)


I like some of the more obscure "W" sets like W553, W-Unc. BigHead, 1910 W-Unc., W517 mini, etc., not alot is known of these sets, there seems to be a few new cards "discovered" every year. Frank

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  #10  
Old 12-17-2003, 01:38 PM
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Posted By: Eric

Although many of the W cards are primitive to their tobacco, candy, and gum relatives..there are a couple of issues that hold their own in my opinion. One of those is the W503 set produced in 1923. This set offers absolutely gorgeous and unique photo's with a crisp white border. These cards weren't sold in strips, so they never faced the humiliation of being snipped apart by some dumb kid. I have also been told that the majority of the photo's used for this set were not featured on any other cards of the day. This alone makes the issue a bit special, as this was a very common practice. Another W issue that I think is pretty nice is the W553, produced in 1929. The issue is commonly referred to as "Ornate Borders" because of the black lacy border that frames each card. These cards are pretty tough to find, and generally sell for over $100 in vg, or better condition. They also come in a variety of colors, which always incites interest amongst collectors. One last cool W issue worth bringing up are the W517's. Made in 1931, two sizes were made, both with varying colors, and alike many W cards, can be had for next to nothing.
I wouldn't descriminate against W cards, many fine issues were made. I agree with Brian P when he says that they can be had at a great value, he's absolutely right. Buying good condition cards that are 80-100 years old for a few bucks apiece is always a great idea.

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  #11  
Old 12-17-2003, 04:13 PM
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Posted By: Julie

I also have an M.P. '43 DiMaggio, and (recently purchased), a W504 (1925) Babe Ruth, followthrough, looking up, photographic (this is the set without any top borders; if you see an uncut sheet, you'll know why--the only "border" belongs to the card above, with name and team on it. (Sort of like '54 Topps, but very, very different).

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  #12  
Old 12-19-2003, 04:56 PM
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Posted By: shammus



Frank, liked the Ruth and Collins, I thought I'd add a scan of my w555 Wagner

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Old 12-20-2003, 04:31 PM
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Posted By: warshawlaw

Those are nice cards. Cheap too. I've got a Terry and a Grove. With all the color and other variations, an intriguing set.

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  #14  
Old 12-20-2003, 05:05 PM
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Posted By: Marty



I just got these back from PSA. I also got a PSA 7 chase. I believe that these are the first three that they have graded from this set. My question is what year are these from? Lemke lists them as 1909-10, PSA has them 1909, and SCD lists them as 1907.

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Old 12-20-2003, 06:05 PM
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Posted By: shammus


I've heard everything from 1907 to 1910. The only thing that experts seem to know about this set is that there isn't much info available out there on it. Don't know if you could tell because it's a tad blurry, but on the Wagner scan I posted above, SGC considers the set to be from 1907 as well.

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Old 12-20-2003, 08:33 PM
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Posted By: Jeff S

but I posted a great deal of info about the probable date of W555 several months ago.

The conclusion: 1910. The players included and their team affiliations indicate that it is either 1910 or the set was issued over a number of years.

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