N173 Help

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Posted By: Frank

Hi

I have a couple of items that I can't identify and I was directed here for help. They are 8" by 11.5" color pictures or drawings (one Mike Kelly Boston the other Delahanty Phila). On the bottom is printed Old Judge Cigarettes Goodwin and Co New York. I was told they are based on the N173 Cabinets (except in color).

They are on a heavy paper that has the feel of old wallpaper and have glue on the back. They appear quite old or else someone went to a lot of trouble to make them look old.

I've had these since the 80s. At that time I was told by one dealer that they looked authentic and may have been applied to cases of Old Judge Cigarettes. Another dealer took one look and said they were fake.

Has anyone seen items like these or heard of reprints or fakes of this type of item?

My email is franker01@aol.com. I have pictures that I can send if anyone is interested.

Thanks for any help!

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Posted By: Jay Miller

Post a scan, but they sound like modern prints which are constantly advertised on ebay.

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Posted By: Frank

I looked on ebay and did find the lithos you mentioned. The pictures are the same but these are 8" by 11.5" and are very "weathered" and have the smell and feel of old paper. I suppose it is possible that someone could have faked this effect and it does look like the repro lithos were already in existence at the time I got these two items.

Andy has kindly offered to post the pictures I sent to him so maybe that will be helpful


Thanks!

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Posted By: Andy Baran

Attached is the scan from Frank

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Posted By: Jay Miller

This is a modern print and to quote my late mom---It ain't worth the paper it was printed on!

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Posted By: Frank

Thanks for your help!

That wasn't the answer I'd hoped for but it was the one I kind of suspected.

Just confusing that the paper appears so old but stranger things have happened I guess and I suppose there are some skillful counterfeiters out there.

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Posted By: fkw

I was the one that pointed Frank to the site to ask the question if anyone had seen these large color N173 prints before. I thought at first they had to be modern, but after seeing the pics, Im not so sure. I thought that if they were fakes I would have seen them before somewhere, but I have never seen the color N173 before the ones on eBay. The ones sold on eBay are fairly new if Im not mistaken, and much smaller that what Frank has. Heres the back pic, and a close up. Frank Ward

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

The ones on ebay are exactly the same but not aged to try to dupe someone. They are the same size. They were created by Robert Ball of Lexington, KY from original N173's. He had someone do paintings of them and then create the lithographs. They are printed on kind of rough paper.

The one pictured above looks VERY similar to the type of 'aging' that franks13 or btuttle does with putting glue on the back of the card and aging the front.

Mr. Ball has created a set of 10 limited edition postcards from the set of prints. The ENTIRE remaining inventory of prints, as well as the original oil paintings of the cabinets were sold in a Mastronet auction within the last 2-3 years. Believe there were 10-12 oil paintings but only 8 lithographs. They were made in two sets of 4 and sold that way. I would assume the seller on ebay is the person who purchased them from Mastronet or some other intermediary.

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Posted By: runscott

It always amazes me how a can from the 1800's can rust to the extent this one has, but a paper label glued to it can escape virtually un-harmed.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=732064367

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Posted By: Jay Miller

Don't they teach you guys anything down south---it's the law of selective degradation. And besides paper don't rust!

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Posted By: MW

But weren't red socks sold in cans in the 1800s?

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Posted By: David

The image was no doubt lifted from the book, 'Smoker's Art' by Davidson & Davison-- which, if you've never heard of it, is a nice coffee table book on old tobacco labels, bands, etc.

And, as if Scott needs any further proof that the label is a fake, the original labels were not put any friggin soup can.

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Posted By: brian parker

I believe the Boston Red Sox came into existence in 1901, and were only sold in jars, not in cans.

Brian