Mystery's of the 1933 Goudey set....and, show us your Goudey's

[brob28]

I just started working on this set this year have always loved it.

[leaflover]

Thanks Mike for the insight on Dib and his father.

[BBB]

Originally Posted by tedzan

The Leo Durocher #106 card is not a "proof" card.



I closely examined this card in 1981, while visiting with George Moll at his home in Holland, PA. He handed me two Durocher cards from his 1933 Goudey

set (George Moll's favorite set). One card had #147 on it, and the other card had #106 on it.



1st for some history...... the George Moll Advertising Agency (Philadelphia) was the force behind all the Play Ball and Bowman Sports & Non-Sports cards

issued by the Bowman Gum Co. (1938 - 1955). Moll employed 12 professional artists who designed all the cards.



In 1938, George Moll convinced Warren Bowman that he should market his popular Bubble Gum product with trading cards. And that led to "the start of a

beautiful friendship".



If I recall correctly, it's my understanding that his Agency produced this Durocher card as a space-filler for Goudey collectors who didn't have a #106 card.





TED Z

.

Fascinating stuff! Can barely fathom what it should be worth if one actually hit the market again. I bet it would still be undervalued if compared to Lajoie for rareness. Which is a bit of a bummer as it's part of the same legend as the Lajoie. Thanks for Intel.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by BBB

Fascinating stuff! Can barely fathom what it should be worth if one actually hit the market again. I bet it would still be undervalued if compared to Lajoie for rareness. Which is a bit of a bummer as it's part of the same legend as the Lajoie. Thanks for Intel.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hi Bryan

There appears to be less Durocher (#106) cards available than there are Lajoie (#106) cards. However, the Lajoie card's story has been "hyped" for decades.
Therefore, this Durocher card's value (plus lower demand) will never approach any considerably high $$$$ value.

Glad to share my Durocher story with you....and, the members of this great forum.


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

The Jablonowski card in my set has the official Copyright stamp on the back of this card.
Does anyone else on this forum have Goudey's with the Copyright stamp on them ?

If so, how's about posting them here.


TED Z
.

[brob28]

Interesting Ted, not sure I would have recognized the markings for what they are if I had seen one in the past. So, based on the copyright date, the card would have been released in a series after the date correct? May be an overly simple question, but not being familiar with the process just looking for confirmation as it seems late in the year to be getting the cards copyrighted.

[ZachS]

Besides a signed raw Paul Richards card this is my only other 33 Goudey:




If anyone comes across a lower, left corner let me know.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by brob28

Interesting Ted, not sure I would have recognized the markings for what they are if I had seen one in the past. So, based on the copyright date, the card would have been released in a series after the date correct? May be an overly simple question, but not being familiar with the process just looking for confirmation as it seems late in the year to be getting the cards copyrighted.

Hi Bill

The Jablonowski card was printed on the 4th sheet of the 1933 Goudey set. The cards were issued circa Spring/early Summer 1933.

Most likely that is when these cards were also submitted to the Copyright department. It's my understanding that typically 2 months
transpired until the Copyright registration occurred.

Hopefully, more of these Goudey cards with the Copyright info will be posted here, so we can get a better idea regarding this subject.


TED Z
.

[Pat R]

There was a large group that sold in a REA lot.

Here's six from that lot.
Goudey Group.jpg
Goudey Group Back.jpg

And an informative thread that King started about them.
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=81615

[Pat R]

Here's a scan of one of the cards with a patent registration card.
Goudey certificate.jpg

And a really neat article that was in SMR about the guy who assembled a
large collection of these.
http://www.psacard.com/Articles/Arti...-auction-block

[tedzan]

Thanks Pat for posting these 6 cards having the Copyright stamp on their backs.


Copyright dates on these 6 cards appear to confirm the 2-month period (noted in Post #58)
between when these cards were issued and the Copyright registration date.

Dickey printed on the 1st sheet, issued in Mar 1933.

Collins printed on the 3rd sheet, issued in Apr 1933.

Cronin printed on the 3rd sheet, issued in Apr 1933.

Maranville printed on the 5th sheet, issued in Apr 1933.

Gehringer printed on the 9th sheet, issued in Aug 1933.

Ott printed on the 10th sheet, issued in Nov 1933.


TED Z
.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Thanks Pat for posting these 6 cards having the Copyright stamp on their backs.


Copyright dates on these 6 cards appear to confirm the 2-month period (noted in Post #58)
between when these cards were issued and the Copyright registration date.

Dickey printed on the 1st sheet, issued in Mar 1933.

Collins printed on the 3rd sheet, issued in Apr 1933.

Cronin printed on the 3rd sheet, issued in Apr 1933.

Maranville printed on the 5th sheet, issued in Apr 1933.

Gehringer printed on the 9th sheet, issued in Aug 1933.

Ott printed on the 10th sheet, issued in Nov 1933.


TED Z
.

Ted,
As king pointed out in the archive thread wouldn't the "date of publication"
be when the cards were issued?
Goudey Copyright Card (2).jpg

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Pat R

Ted,
As king pointed out in the archive thread wouldn't the "date of publication"
be when the cards were issued?
Attachment 249609

With all due respect, I have to disagree with cmoking. King and I go back 10+ years ago when we did some nice cash/trade deals.

1st......the source(s) of my information regarding issue dates of the 10 (24-card sheets) 1933Goudey series are George Moll (ref. post #31); and,
Bob K (a neighbor who was avid collector of Goudey's). They collected these cards in their younger days, and we talked about this subject in 1981
when I visited with them.

2nd.....For example, check out the Mel Ott card you posted. It's Copyright date is Jan 23, 1934. No way, that the 10th sheet (World Series) cards
were issued that late.
As I stated in the 2nd paragraph (post #1) these cards were issued Nov 1933. This is a well known and confirmed fact.


TED Z
.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by tedzan

With all due respect, I have to disagree with cmoking. King and I go back 10+ years ago when we did some nice cash/trade deals.

1st......the source(s) of my information regarding issue dates of the 10 (24-card sheets) 1933Goudey series are George Moll (ref. post #31); and,
Bob K (a neighbor who was avid collector of Goudey's). They collected these cards in their younger days, and we talked about this subject in 1981
when I visited with them.

2nd.....For example, check out the Mel Ott card you posted. It's Copyright date is Jan 23, 1934. No way, that the 10th sheet (World Series) cards
were issued that late.As I stated in the 2nd paragraph (post #1) these cards were issued Nov 1933. This is a well known and confirmed fact.


TED Z
.

Ted,
It's my understanding that the dates stamped on the backs of the card(s)
is when the Library of congress received them.
Goudey Copyright Card (2) - Copy.jpg
Goudey Library Of Congress.jpg

and the "date of publication" is the date that Goudey gave as the issue date
when they sent them for the copyrights.
Goudey Copyright Card (3) - Copy.jpg

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Pat R

Ted,
It's my understanding that the dates stamped on the backs of the card(s)
is when the Library of congress received them.
Attachment 249630
Attachment 249631

and the date of publication is the date that Goudey gave as the issue date
when they sent them for the copyrights.
Attachment 249632

Pat

...... "the date that Goudey gave as the issue date when they sent them for the copyrights"......

doesn't in any way coincide with the actual date when these cards were printed and issued to the public market.
For whatever reasons, there was a delay by Goudey in submitted these cards to the Copyright Office.

As I have already stated.....the actual dates of the various series in this set is well known and a confirmed fact.
This has been documented by several long-time hobbyist (including Lew Lipset).

So, I really don't understand why you are missing this point ?


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Cards on the 6th sheet of the 1933 Goudey set were issued circa Summer of '33. This fabulous sheet includes double-printed cards of Babe Ruth (#144).
Plus....Babe Ruth (card #149), Lou Gehrig (card #160), Jimmy Foxx (card #154), Leo Durocher (card #147), and the mysterious Moe Berg (card #158).

Does a series of vintage BB cards printed on one sheet get any better than this ?

I DON"T THINK SO !







TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Some more of my favorites from this great set. Show us your favorites.






TED Z
.

[BBB]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hi Bryan



There appears to be less Durocher (#106) cards available than there are Lajoie (#106) cards. However, the Lajoie card's story has been "hyped" for decades.

Therefore, this Durocher card's value (plus lower demand) will never approach any considerably high $$$$ value.



Glad to share my Durocher story with you....and, the members of this great forum.





TED Z

.

Absolutely agree on logic, but would still guess a Durocher 106 might go for 5-10k. Although it's way south of Lajoie , it should still surpass the yellow Ruth . I could be far off base , but that's my wild guess.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[flyingdutchman09]

Beautiful card, Leon.

[tedzan]

Baseball records "come-n-go......but, one still standing is Hack Wilson's single-season RBI record.

The 1930 season was magical for him...... BA= .356....HR= 56....RBI= 191






TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Tough finding in reasonably nice condition...... #1 and #240.






Hey guys, let us see some more of your Goudey's.


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Jack Quinn was a Major League pitcher for 23 continuous seasons (1909 - 1933). He owns several longevity records. For example,
Jack is the oldest pitcher to ever start a World Series game at age 46 in 1929 for the A's.

Furthermore, Jack Quinn is the only active Major Leaguer featured in the T206 set and the 1933 Goudey set (check-out post #40).





Frank Crosetti was involved in 23 - World Series as a Player and a Coach with the NY Yankees (37 - Major League seasons).
Crosetti's amazing record of 17 - World Series Championship Rings will probably never be surpassed.


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Two Texans who could hit for high averages.


Tris Speaker's career BA = .345



Rogers Hornsby's career BA = .358

Plus, his BA = .424 for the 1924 season may never be surpassed.


TED Z
.

[brob28]

I've always liked Schumachers card, looks like he has a lot on his mind. And why not throw one in of the Mickey before Mickey.

[jmb]

-

[Yoda]

I completely agree with your observation here. Since 1982, I have completed two 1933 Goudey sets; and, I seldom have come across flawed printing in these cards.

Lefty O'Doul is another one of my favorite 1933 Goudey cards. First series card as a Dodger, and his World Series card (post #1) depicts him as a NY Giants player.
There is a very interesting Goudey Ruth #181 misprint in the current LOTG auction. Surprized it made it out of quality control, given the tough standards Goudey imposed. Perhaps considering who the player was somebody in the sheet cutting room pocketed it before the card could be given a final rejection.





TED Z
.[/QUOTE]

[brob28]

I have not seen another Goudey with print issues like the Ruth, anyone else seen any?

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by brob28

I've always liked Schumachers card, looks like he has a lot on his mind. And why not throw one in of the Mickey before Mickey.

Hey Bill

As I'm sure you know, (but for those who don't)....Mickey Mantle was named after Mickey Cochrane, who was the favorite ballplayer of Mantle's Dad.


TED Z
.

[Yoda]

There is a very interesting #181 SGC 20 Ruth in the For Love of the Game current auction; it is clearly misprinted and must have somehow been missed by the hawk-eyed quality control inspectors at the Goudey print plant. As others have clearly stated, the quality control standards at Goudey were vastly superior to early 20th century tobacco issuers. I have handled a lot of Goudeys over the years and have never seen one exactly like it, let alone on a Ruth specimen.

[tedzan]

Two very interesting ballplayers. One whose fame was on the playing field and another whose fame was off the playing field.

Charles Gehringer is rated as one of the all-around greatest 2nd Baseman.

Moe Berg had an unbelievable life. I highly recommend reading his SABR bio...... http://sabr.org/bioproj/person/e1e65b3b







Hey guys,
Are there any more Goudey's out there to be displayed here ?


TED Z
.

[smellthegum]

Here's my meager contribution (and first post). These are the only three I have. Always loved the artwork and the look and quality of the lithography on the Goudey sets but never tried to build them as so many are beyond my means in high grade, even raw.

[brob28]

Here's a few more Ted, I don't know much about Crowder, but he must have been a popular player to warrant two cards in the set. Nice ones Dave.

[tedzan]

Hi Dave Waugh

Very sharp looking Goudey's....thanks for posting them.

Originally Posted by brob28

Here's a few more Ted, I don't know much about Crowder, but he must have been a popular player to warrant two cards in the set. Nice ones Dave.

Hi Bill

Your Alvin Crowder (pitching) is really sharp. Crowder is repeated (like a number of guys in this set) because he was included in the "World Series" sheet.










TED Z
.

[brob28]

Ahh yes right! It always throws me since they did not number the cards sequentially by "print sheet/series date". I'm always expecting the higher # cards to be from that last sheet.

[tedzan]

I dug deep into my archive stacks and came across this Manush color error. It's missing blue ink.

So, although we have said that flawed 1933 Goudey cards are seldom found, I found one.

TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Circa Nov/Dec 1933, Goudey issued their Sport Kings set. Only Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, and Carl Hubbell are the BB subjects in this 48-card set.
Included in the Sport Kings set are athletes in Basketball, Bicycling, Billiards, Hockey, Jockey, Ice-skating, Speed-boating, Swimming, Tennis,
Track, Wrestling. Also Bob-sled & Dog-sled racing, and Aviators.

How's about showing some of them if you got them.


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Dave W

Your three Goudey's are really sharp-looking cards. Keep collecting them, and over time you'll have a nice set.

Thanks for posting them.

TED Z
.

[brob28]

Originally Posted by tedzan

I dug deep into my archive stacks and came across this Manush color error. It's missing blue ink.

So, although we have said that flawed 1933 Goudey cards are seldom found, I found one.

TED Z
.

Ted, does that card measure equal to other Goudey's? Any chance it's hand cut? I'd post some more cards, but I'm at work.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by brob28

Ted, does that card measure equal to other Goudey's? Any chance it's hand cut? I'd post some more cards, but I'm at work.

Hi Bill

The Manush is factory cut. It has what is referred to as a "diamond cut".


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

In 1933, the GOUDEY GUM Company started a revolution in the trade card market when they introduced their Indian Gum series and their Big League
series of cards packaged with Bubble gum in colorfully designed Waxpacks.

In 1941, Goudey issued their last series of Indian Gum cards and Baseball cards. During these 9 years of production, Goudey designed & printed some
really classic sets of cards that were and still are very popular.


1933 Goudey Indian Gum wrapper & cards



.






1941 Goudey Indian and Pioneer card & wrapper

.





Hey guys,

Let's continue this Show....show off your Goudey's from any years (1933 - 1941).



TED Z
.

[Shoebox]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hey guys,

Let's continue this Show....show off your Goudey's from any years (1933 - 1941).



TED Z
.

The 33 and 34 sets get all the love but the Wide Pen Premiums of 36-37 are some great images and very under appreciated IMO.

[prestigecollectibles]

I had a complete set minus the Lajoie card back in the late 1980s. This thread motivated me to start collecting the set again. Just picked this one up on Ebay along with 11 ungraded cards.

[tombocombo]

Ted,
Thank you for all the research.

[brob28]

This has always been one of my favorites.

[obcbobd]

Great thread about my favorite set. Sorry I am posting so late. It seems Goudey registered cards from the 33 set with the US Patent office. The attached Lyn Lary was once of those (note the stamps and hand cut). There are description cards (like an index card I think) that go with each card giving a description. Don't have one of those though.

The yellow on the card is not as strong as on the scan. My scanner is acting up.

[Forever Young]

Here is my goudey

[jason.1969]

What a great thread for learning about Goudey cards and seeing some nice ones. Here is my favorite Goudey pickup from 2016.

Ted, is it possible the ones missing the red bar had originally been planned for the 1934 set but were perhaps repurposed into the 1933 set? I suppose my conjecture dies if any cards from prior series were bar-less as well.

[prestigecollectibles]

I've picked up almost 40 cards to add to my set. I can't understand why so many sellers on eBay and elsewhere only show scans of the fronts. It is so frustrating trying to buy cards with no back scans.

[Leon]

Great Goudey info, guys.
As for no back scans, It is sellers just being lazy. Many times I pass over auctions with no back scans. It's usually not worth the hassle....

Originally Posted by prestigecollectibles

I've picked up almost 40 cards to add to my set. I can't understand why so many sellers on eBay and elsewhere only show scans of the fronts. It is so frustrating trying to buy cards with no back scans.

[C-mack]

Hello guys ! Been lurking for a few months but started a 33 goudey set in PSA 4 this month and after seeing this thread figure this would be a great time to finally post and share my progress so far I'm at 34 but 3 of them won't be in my hands till after Christmas