Forum Shopping within grading companies

[orly57]

Originally Posted by glchen

That's a misgrade by PSA. If you crack it out and send it back to PSA, it would get a 1.5 or 2.

And let's assume for a second that is true. Let's say it's really a psa 2. Would guys shell-out 7500-plus on it? It's the SAME CARD isn't it? Only the holder has changed. Are we card collectors or are we flip collectors? It is such a joke, and we continue to feed into the myth by buying holders over cards.

[irishdenny]

JuST A Few Observations:

1st ~ When PSA were iN their Primal Stage
They would Boost their Grade Opinion to an Extreme!
There's NothiN "PROFESSIONAL" About THiS iN Any Way Shape or Form,
Hence the PSA 8 Wagner!

2nd ~ to Note PSA's Primal Beginnings We Should Look to the "Flip" itself,
It Tells us Alot!
THiS one of Mr. Cobb's wit a Green Background,
The PSA Flip is From Their "Primal Stage"...
Way Back THeN, THiS was a PSA 5 to Them,
At THaT Time, Some Even Agreed to THiS Standard.

If You Look at the "Rounded White Corners, Wit the Red Background"
THiS Configuration Tells us THaT "The Slab is Very Old!!!"

JuSt to End...
When it Comes to "Flips", I Only Remember the Basics
I Do Know THaT There are a Few Members oN Here
THaT Could Teach a Class oN "Flips: Bar Codes & Configurations"

https://goldinauctions.com/1909_11_T...-LOT29129.aspx

[glchen]

Originally Posted by orly57

And let's assume for a second that is true. Let's say it's really a psa 2. Would guys shell-out 7500-plus on it? It's the SAME CARD isn't it? Only the holder has changed. Are we card collectors or are we flip collectors? It is such a joke, and we continue to feed into the myth by buying holders over cards.

That's true BUT you can argue that if that card were graded a 2, it would have superior eye appeal to practically any other green Cobb that was graded a 2. So even card collectors (and not flip collectors) would still value the card significantly above the average VCP for a 2. Saying all of that, I don't think the card should sell for what a 5 does.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by glchen

That's true BUT you can argue that if that card were graded a 2, it would have superior eye appeal to practically any other green Cobb that was graded a 2. So even card collectors (and not flip collectors) would still value the card significantly above the average VCP for a 2. Saying all of that, I don't think the card should sell for what a 5 does.

Agree with Gary.

That card is a 2 at best. A nice visually 2 and will sell at a large premium...but no more a 5 than a 10.

[keithsky]

The amount of money these grading companies make a year is unreal and people keep feeding them more of it just to have a number and a slab for there card. If that card was without a holder and you tried to sell it verses some clown slabbing it and putting a number on it that he decides and only him so now it's 2 maybe 3 times as much in value? Maybe even more depending on who it is. All because it's slabbed with a number. When you think about the grading companies and only them deciding what the value of a card is because there is some number on a slab it hard to make sense of it. Another words basicly 3 companies controlling the whole market and what the value of cards are. Can't we do that on our own? It's funny when a guy wants to have a card reslabbed to see about a higher number or he'll say PSA will get me more money than SGC. Right there it's all about the slab and not the card so fueling the grading companies more money. They have to sit back and just love it.

[swarmee]

Definitely an old grade. What the seller should do is send it back in to PSA and have them refund the difference of what they paid and whatever the card is worth as a PSA 2 (which I would expect it to grade now).

Is the white spot on the front also a tiny paper loss? If so, it might be a 1.5 now at PSA. Does the back actually have paper loss or is it possibly a print defect? There seems to be mild discoloration where paper loss would be, but I don't see any tears.

[irv]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Definitely an old grade. What the seller should do is send it back in to PSA and have them refund the difference of what they paid and whatever the card is worth as a PSA 2 (which I would expect it to grade now).

Is the white spot on the front also a tiny paper loss? If so, it might be a 1.5 now at PSA. Does the back actually have paper loss or is it possibly a print defect? There seems to be mild discoloration where paper loss would be, but I don't see any tears.

You can expand the card fairly large in this link posted earlier.
https://goldinauctions.com/1909_11_T...LOT29129.aspx#

[D. Bergin]

There's TWO obvious spots of paper loss and glue residue on the back. Not tobacco..........glue.

It was obviously soaked out of an album or scrapbook.

I thought I was annoyed when I picked up a 1960 Jim Brown PSA 7 without a scan of the back and found the back centering was like 120/-20 when I had it in hand.

If I spent that kind of money on a PSA5 Cobb, and it showed up looking like that, I'd be furious. Luckily there's a nice back scan on that listing so you can judge for yourself.

That said, I've never sent in a card to a TPG in my life, though I've occasionally bought graded cards, and there is certainly a benefit to their existence.

I've been around long enough to remember the old wild west days of SCD and Card Shows when one dealers NM was another dealers VG was another dealers EX was another dealers GD/VG.

[Snapolit1]

Grading companies miss things. Why does this call into question the legitimacy of the whole industry? Doctors miss things sometimes. So do lawyers. So do people who draft players for the NFL. The folks at NASA missed something a few years ago that led to a terrible tragedy. Judges, teachers and detective miss things. So people post examples here of stuff that was mishandled. What does this prove other than every human endeavor is subject to human error?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Grading companies miss things. Why does this call into question the legitimacy of the whole industry? Doctors miss things sometimes. So do lawyers. So do people who draft players for the NFL. The folks at NASA missed something a few years ago that led to a terrible tragedy. Judges, teachers and detective miss things. So people post examples here of stuff that was mishandled. What does this prove other than every human endeavor is subject to human error?

To be fair, I don't think Orlando is complaining about the missed grade so much as people being slaves to the flip in terms of how much they pay.

[orly57]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

To be fair, I don't think Orlando is complaining about the missed grade so much as people being slaves to the flip in terms of how much they pay.

Thanks Peter, but not this time. This card actually sold for only 9k in April (with BP),so people took the paper loss into consideration and didn't pay "5-prices." I just recognized a card I posted about monthsback and realized it was in a new holder. I was shocked to find that it made it into the new holder at a 5 despite the obvious paper loss. So I guess PSA made the same mistake TWICE. This appears to be ok with Steve, so there is nothing to see here.

[irv]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Grading companies miss things. Why does this call into question the legitimacy of the whole industry? Doctors miss things sometimes. So do lawyers. So do people who draft players for the NFL. The folks at NASA missed something a few years ago that led to a terrible tragedy. Judges, teachers and detective miss things. So people post examples here of stuff that was mishandled. What does this prove other than every human endeavor is subject to human error?

In my opinion, this goes on and on far too often. I am unsure how many TPG's PSA employs but you would think it was a 100 or more based on the grading discrepancies that one sees far too often.

Look at those cards I just posted above, 98 and 99. There is no way both are 4's. Miller is either a 2-3 or Pellagrini is a 5-6. Even the back on the Miller is stained and Pellagrini's is clean.

Color me confused, but this inconsistency, over and over again, leads me to believe these guys don't really know what they are doing.

[mattjc1983]

Originally Posted by orly57

And let's assume for a second that is true. Let's say it's really a psa 2. Would guys shell-out 7500-plus on it? It's the SAME CARD isn't it? Only the holder has changed. Are we card collectors or are we flip collectors? It is such a joke, and we continue to feed into the myth by buying holders over cards.

In the older cards, obviously a lot of the premiums for even small grade bumps has to do with the pop reports.

But those are dangerous assumptions people make. Not only are there ungraded cards in collections that, if/when graded would alter the pop reports, but there are likely still attic finds that will do the same. I would never play that lottery but many do.


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[Exhibitman]

FWIW I sent in an N28 in very similar condition last year (a bit more back damage but no staining) and it got a 2 from PSA.