Can't slab--only one known?

[jim]

if neither of the top two will slab it, that says that they do not know it's authenticity. a future potential buyer will then have to rely, on what, for the piece to be real?

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by jim

if neither of the top two will slab it, that says that they do not know it's authenticity. a future potential buyer will then have to rely, on what, for the piece to be real?

Their eyes and their brains, along with those of the auction house experts. What a concept!

[tbob]

I have a card of Frank Chance which is identical to an E95 Chance except that the caption lists him as playing/coaching with the Yankees rather than the Cubs and the card has a blank back. I aslo have a card of Johnny Kling with is identical to an E96 Kling except the caption lists him as playing with the Braves instead of the Cubs and the card has a blank back. There is one more card in this group (can't remember the name but it was identical to an E96) which was purchased by Keith Olberman and had the same different team name and a blank back. SGC said the cards couldn't be slabbed when I asked about 7-8 years ago because these cards had never seen before. E95 are from 1909, E96s are from 1910. Chance coached the Yankees in 1913 and 1914. These are one of a kind cards, possibly color proofs of a planned set which never materialized.
The card weight and texture is very similar to the E97 black and white card set.
I know a few posters on this board thought that they must be from those notebook covers, rather than proofs, but Kling was never included among the cards pictured. Chance was included on the notebook cover but is listed as Chance Chi. Natl. not New York AL.
The cards still remain one of a kind whose origin is unknown. I haven't checked with SGC lately to see if they might slab them as E unknown series cards. Now that they have begun slabbing E93 and E97 blank backs in the past few years, I might try.
P.S. Here is a picture of the Notebook Cover published in 1913 and you will note that the Chance "card" is captioned as his being with the Cubs.

[travrosty]

why does every card need to be in a holder? i am on sgc side.

its not their job to research and catalogue cards, they slab them as authentic.

why should they go out and spend countless hours researching and testing paper, etc.? that's not their job. if its a known issue, they should slab it, but if its not, its up to the collector to prove it, then they can slab it, another reason why cards dont need to be slabbed in the first place. because slabbing doesnt make it real, and not slabbing it doesnt make it fake. it's either real or not irregardless.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by travrosty

why does every card need to be in a holder? i am on sgc side.

its not their job to research and catalogue cards, they slab them as authentic.

why should they go out and spend countless hours researching and testing paper, etc.? that's not their job. if its a known issue, they should slab it, but if its not, its up to the collector to prove it, then they can slab it, another reason why cards dont need to be slabbed in the first place. because slabbing doesnt make it real, and not slabbing it doesnt make it fake. it's either real or not irregardless.

I'm with you 100% on slabbing, I could do without it altogether. Authentication (exposing trimming, etc), on the other hand, is useful for exposing fraud. But the market has spoken--slabbed gets better prices than unslabbed--so from that standpoint I would like to get my card slabbed. It's your second point that doesn't make sense to me. Let's see, when a TPA is presented with a nice-looking T206 Wagner, they don't have to "spend countless hours researching and testing paper, etc. If it's a known issue, they should slab it." Really? All they need is the fact that that this is a known issue? Of course not. In fact, that's the least of their considerations. They will look at everything else about this card--the paper, the ink, the edges, the age, everything that forensically confirms that this card was actually made in 1910 or thereabouts. So why can't they just do the same with my card, and verify that it is indeed from that period, which it so clearly is? Why do they need another example, which might not exist, to compare it to? A forger with any brains isn't going to go to the trouble to create a new design that nobody's ever seen before, he's going to use the template of a known and desirable issue and try to create a passable forgery with all the aging and other techniques at his disposal. I'm not getting the logic here.

[jim]

perhaps I am missing something; you are lamenting that sgc won't slab it but then why are you even trying to get it slabbed if you are one of the experts? isn't your expert knowledge good enough?
jim

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by jim

perhaps I am missing something; you are lamenting that sgc won't slab it but then why are you even trying to get it slabbed if you are one of the experts? isn't your expert knowledge good enough?
jim

I believe Hank is consigning the piece for auction?

And playing devil's advocate: Why would a forger go through the trouble to create a one of a kind advertising card? What would the profit motive be? Once it leaves his hand, there is no benefit. (Assuming that Hank did not purchase this from the forger himself for $10K ) Can we look forward to a flood of these? Probably not.

[Exhibitman]

Well, Travis, I think a TPG has a duty to stay abreast of the latest discoveries and developments in their field, just as any professional [I know...] has to do the same. Part of what ticks off the OP and others about a TPG not knowing how to handle obscure issues is that it appears unprofessional and lazy. If multiple people here and auctioneers know the score, I'd expect a TPG to be similarly aware of what is out there.

[kmac32]

Same issue with some hand cut Koester bread cards I own. I was wanting only an authentic grade and it was more for display but SGC wouldn't do it. In fact even if you have a proven Koester card, they will call it a W575-1.

[VintageBall]

This is exactly why these grading companies should exist. To do the hard work.

They should be there to tell you if that Fro-Joy Ruth is legit or if Leon's Headin Home cards are real -- and if this postcard from Hank makes the grade (pun intended).

We don't need them to tell us a T206 is a T206. Yes they provide other services on that T206 -- letting you know if it is authentic and trimmed. But it's the hard stuff that people really need help on...!

And if they don't have the expertise to identify and authenticate postcards or boxing cards or any other type of collectible, then they shouldn't be slabbing ANY of them in this category. If they want to grade items in a category then they need to have the expertise in that category. This is the standard to which they should be held.

They should either have this expertise in-house or use freelance contractors and pay them. Calling Adam for free help because he is a boxing card expert is lazy and unprofessional. Paying Adam for help isn't.

This is what we expect when we use a professional service -- whether it's a plumber, an electrician or an accountant. The same should be true of a grading card service.

This may be a hobby for us, but it is a business for them and should therefore be conducted with professionalism, uniformity and standards.

...Just one opinion from a type card and postcard collector...

Robert S

[VintageBall]

BTW, I once sold an ungraded postcard to another collector who promptly took it to one of the grading services to be slabbed. This grading service said they were unsure and would ask an expert to double-check it. Who did they ask?

Me.

They flagged me down at the show to ask me.

Of course it was real, but this clearly was not a professional way to conduct business.

Yes, I consider myself knowledgeable about postcards. But they should have a postcard expert on staff or under contract as a freelancer. And the expert should not be allowed to authenticate his own stuff or have a financial interest in the item!

This is no way to run a business. Either slab things the right away or don't slab any item in the category!

Robert S