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  #41  
Old 08-15-2018, 12:40 AM
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Ulidia Ulidia is offline
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Originally Posted by Collect Equity View Post
So I see that cards (stickers actually) are completely intertwined with soccer and will become more and more recognized as such in the generations to come.

It does seem that this is less the case in England. And it is also not the case in the US. But in Italy and South America, parts of Asia and Eastern Europe, I think this is definitely the case.
I am a member and season ticket holder of Internazionale in Italy so I can say with some authority that cards / stickers are not the primary soccer collectable there. The money goes to shirts, especially vintage shirts, and pennants.

Walk into any of the large soccer museums in Milan (for example, the San Siro Museum) and you won't see anyone fawning over a card - rather it will be old shirts, photos, medals and trophies. Have a look at soccer auction results and cards don't get the largest prices.
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  #42  
Old 08-15-2018, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Ulidia View Post
I am a member and season ticket holder of Internazionale in Italy so I can say with some authority that cards / stickers are not the primary soccer collectable there. The money goes to shirts, especially vintage shirts, and pennants.

Walk into any of the large soccer museums in Milan (for example, the San Siro Museum) and you won't see anyone fawning over a card - rather it will be old shirts, photos, medals and trophies. Have a look at soccer auction results and cards don't get the largest prices.
Thatís true for all sports and countries though, right? They donít show off cards at Yankee Stadium, they have jerseys and other memorabilia. And that stuff generally sells for the most, but it doesnít mean that cards donít have a place.
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  #43  
Old 08-15-2018, 08:35 AM
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Baseball is drowning in stats, but they do facilitate discussions of comparing players across different eras, which people always love. I think it's relatively harder to do that in a sport far less given to stats, and it could be (just theorizing) that the lack of stats is one reason casual fans may be less interested in greats of the distant past?
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  #44  
Old 08-15-2018, 08:55 AM
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Baseball is drowning in stats, but they do facilitate discussions of comparing players across different eras, which people always love. I think it's relatively harder to do that in a sport far less given to stats, and it could be (just theorizing) that the lack of stats is one reason casual fans may be less interested in greats of the distant past?
I love stats...but it’s hard to capture much beyond goals and assists in soccer and even then numbers are not always meaningful or comparable.

Hockey has goal and assist numbers Pre-War (though assists were given out much less frequently) but Pre-War players are still dramatically underrated. A typical baseball top ten will be filled at least half with Pre-War players while a typical hockey one will not have any. I think baseball overrates Pre-War players since they played pre-integration (meaning that the “replacement level player” was much worse than today) but that hockey and perhaps soccer underrate them.

Last edited by Anish; 08-15-2018 at 08:56 AM.
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  #45  
Old 08-15-2018, 09:04 AM
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That's the thing, a midfielder can control a soccer game ( well, as much as any one player can) but not show up in the counting stats at all. At the other extreme, almost everything that happens in a baseball game can be measured and quantified.
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 08-15-2018 at 09:05 AM.
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  #46  
Old 08-15-2018, 09:55 AM
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Default I think that is right, Peter

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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Baseball is drowning in stats, but they do facilitate discussions of comparing players across different eras, which people always love. I think it's relatively harder to do that in a sport far less given to stats, and it could be (just theorizing) that the lack of stats is one reason casual fans may be less interested in greats of the distant past?

I think that is right, Peter... and I think the international aspect makes it even more difficult. There are so many leagues, so many players and historically not much play between them except the World Cup and the Olympics in the pre-war discussion... not many TV clips or game footage. So between stats, language and inability to compare it because harder to do that and there are no guides (that I know of) that consolidate the information. Many top soccer historians go a great job, but all the work is piece-mail. I am planning to consolidate some of this information in a book that I think will be helpful for collectors and I will base my information off of other people's historical efforts. In other words, I will try and show some collecting options of the players that most historians think were exceptional in their times which for me should always be the standard.

I generally like to look at the IFFHS site and read their articles. They try to rank clubs, leagues and players... They are now in the process of defining some legends that you can see here:

https://iffhs.de/iffhs-has-announced...egend-players/

Unfortunately they are even highly focused on post war players. If you look at all the people on this (somewhat political - note the inclusion of players from China and Kuwait) list only Stanley Matthews played many of his great years prior to WWII - so it is basically a post war list. This is phase one of their work and I am not sure how many phases there are. You can click on players and there are (albeit too brief) descriptions of the players and many have YouTube videos with clips of some of their antics. Check out the one on Zico and him amazing free kicks from outside of the box.

Anyway, it all starts with interest and education and I believe that, in time, these things will come to US collectors. Also when the World Cup in here in the USA, I imagine that there will be much more interest as well.
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  #47  
Old 08-15-2018, 03:27 PM
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Collect Equity Collect Equity is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulidia View Post
I am a member and season ticket holder of Internazionale in Italy so I can say with some authority that cards / stickers are not the primary soccer collectable there. The money goes to shirts, especially vintage shirts, and pennants.

Walk into any of the large soccer museums in Milan (for example, the San Siro Museum) and you won't see anyone fawning over a card - rather it will be old shirts, photos, medals and trophies. Have a look at soccer auction results and cards don't get the largest prices.
You may be right that the most collected items currently are shirts and pennants, especially by adults.

However, the reason I collect cards is because as a child it let me get close to my baseball heroes. I love baseball and was never very good, and loved to pull out my cards so that I could feel close to the game. Also, cards make a good collectible because of their size.

So, Ulidia, I am curious if you were to take a poll of 20 kids in the neighborhood or at the soccer stadium, how many collect soccer stickers and if not, do they collect anything else that does let them feel close to the game (magazines, jerseys, etc.)?

My hypothesis is that lack of nostalgia from kids not collecting baseball cards today will lead to a dearth of baseball card collectors in 30 - 40 years. But because kids today collect stickers around the world (especially Panini WC stickers), that soccer cards will become more and more popular over the next 30 - 40 years.

I really am interested in knowing if kids in your neighborhood or who you meet at the soccer stadium collect stickers now.
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  #48  
Old 08-15-2018, 07:25 PM
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Default OK... one more candidate for this futile cause

OK guys, some of you may have seen my posting on Leonidas Da Silva, but probably my favorite card of his (and one of my favorite soccer cards in general), if the 1950 Tinghalls Leonidas.

This card (and all of the Sao Paulo issues) of Tinghalls are exceedingly rare and I know of just three copies of this card. It appears that they were made to celebrate a tour of the Sao Paulo team in Sweden.

The last time that I saw this card at auction was about 5 years ago or so and it brought $800. I did not win that card and had to pay much more than that to get this copy. Anyway, enjoy.
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  #49  
Old 08-15-2018, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by aljurgela View Post
OK guys, some of you may have seen my posting on Leonidas Da Silva, but probably my favorite card of his (and one of my favorite soccer cards in general), if the 1950 Tinghalls Leonidas.

This card (and all of the Sao Paulo issues) of Tinghalls are exceedingly rare and I know of just three copies of this card. It appears that they were made to celebrate a tour of the Sao Paulo team in Sweden.

The last time that I saw this card at auction was about 5 years ago or so and it brought $800. I did not win that card and had to pay much more than that to get this copy. Anyway, enjoy.
Wow. Thatís actually the best candidate yet. Tough (short printed?) card of an all-time great from an iconic set.
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  #50  
Old 08-15-2018, 07:43 PM
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Anish Anish is offline
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Originally Posted by Collect Equity View Post
You may be right that the most collected items currently are shirts and pennants, especially by adults.

However, the reason I collect cards is because as a child it let me get close to my baseball heroes. I love baseball and was never very good, and loved to pull out my cards so that I could feel close to the game. Also, cards make a good collectible because of their size.

So, Ulidia, I am curious if you were to take a poll of 20 kids in the neighborhood or at the soccer stadium, how many collect soccer stickers and if not, do they collect anything else that does let them feel close to the game (magazines, jerseys, etc.)?

My hypothesis is that lack of nostalgia from kids not collecting baseball cards today will lead to a dearth of baseball card collectors in 30 - 40 years. But because kids today collect stickers around the world (especially Panini WC stickers), that soccer cards will become more and more popular over the next 30 - 40 years.

I really am interested in knowing if kids in your neighborhood or who you meet at the soccer stadium collect stickers now.
I think video games (eg FIFA) have replaced cards.

That being said, many people collect items from before their time (myself included) as opposed to items from their childhood.
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