T206 Red Cobby/Drum on ebay

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Posted By: Jamie

I got chewed out by a guy(a potential buyer) so i removed the link.. the board can get crazy sometimes


edited title so more threads aren't started

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Posted By: scott levy

Board,

Does anyone else fear the odd cuts on the sides of this card? Speaking from experience, I'd had some similar characteristics on a rebacked drum cobb before. Am I being paranoid, or is this really worth worrying about?

Regards,
Scott

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Posted By: Matt

Jamie - there is no rule against posting a live auction for discussion; especially one that is correctly listed in the pre-1930s category on ebay.

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Posted By: leon

For the record there is no rule whatsoever about posting live auctions. As collectors most of us hope it doesn't happen but there is no rule, and has never been a rule, against it. With the amount of forum members it's no surprise someone got bent out of shape about it....regards

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Posted By: Jim VB

Jamie,

The auction is a featured listing, and it had 14 bidders with 26 bids, in the first 12 hours it was listed.

I don't think you "outed" anything.

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Posted By: Alan

I agree with Leon.

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Posted By: Bill Kasel

If the guy who chewed you out thinks you "outed" the auction he is very naive. It's ebay for crying out loud. If it was in an off-beat auction not routinely visited by MILLIONS on a daily basis I can see his concern.

Bill

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Posted By: MVSNYC

ok, let's drop the whole "outing" thing and focus on the matter at hand...

what does everyone think about this card?

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Posted By: Phil

The SGC Population Report shows a Ty Cobb with a Drum back listed as "A" but it doesn't say which version of Ty Cobb T206 it is.

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Posted By: JimB

THe authentic one that SGC graded was trimmed along the top and auctioned off this year by Hunt Auctions. It was also a red portrait.
JimB

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Posted By: leon

Agreed that there is no way this is going to be outed as it's featured and in the correct category. That being said anytime ANYTHING is posted on the board you do have more eyes looking at it so it does still create more competition albeit maybe only "perceived"....but maybe not too.....so without further a'doodoo....here is the link

http://cgi.ebay.com/1909-11-T206-Ty-Cobb-DRUM-BACK-BVG-1-5-Fair_W0QQitemZ130226016019

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Posted By: boxingcardman

But it isn't a nice looking card. Not that it matters much with a Drum back...

Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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Posted By: scott levy

The combination of red cobb with drum back is possible in fact we've now seen two legit examples of them.....any thoughts on whether this is a frankencard?

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Posted By: Tom Nieves

With Frank still apparently MIA, I will refrain from commenting on this card.

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Posted By: Pennsylvania Ted

Seems like we did this dance back in the Fall of '07.....same dance, same card.....

http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/thread/1187823512/last-1193351786/

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Posted By: leon

This one could be real but it was graded 6 yrs ago and has the exact next numerical grading number from the very obvious reback that was on ebay long ago. As long as there was 1 rebacked graded that day and then 1 real one graded as the very next one...then all is good? Personally I think you could probably win the lottery 2 times in a row before that happens.....but I have been wrong before.....The Beckett folks have been alerted...


edited typo....also, I am not a T206 expert but have had some emails with one today....

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Posted By: Tom Nieves

Careful, Leon, I'm sure Gary will be at the National.

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Posted By: Dan Koochin

As Leon states, the BVG Graded Ty Cobb Drum serial number #0000027775 was re-backed,
photos of the correct front existed at one time. In my mind it's not really a question
of whether it could exist (it can) , but if the very next card BVG graded was yet another
Ty Cobb Drum and very likely from the same submitter! , then there is certainly every
reason to have doubts... the card in the current auction is #0000027774....

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Posted By: Anthony S.

Damn, you guys are good.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

How can you tell from the cert number when it was graded?

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Posted By: Leon

#1 I called Beckett and they told me 2002.
#2 I have a scan of the really bad reback and it has that sequence number on it...

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Yeah, that is enough evidence for me. Amazing it's not in a PSA holder.

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Posted By: leon

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Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth

The seller has another card up for auction which has one of the most laughable descriptions which in part states, "The original owner opted for the "authentic" grade because the VGEX eye appeal was in excess of a typical 'GOOD' card."

It is clear from the scan of the card that were it not encapsulated the card could only be viewed outside or in a room with adequate ventilation. Who knows if the card is also trimmed.

Greg

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Posted By: Eric

I sure am glad this thread was started.

2 bid retractions, since the seller updated the auction description to say that he wouldn't guarantee PSA or SGC's opinion.

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Posted By: Chris

Wow - you guys ARE good. Hopefully that saves someone from being disappointed.

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Guys,
This auction has been on the watch list since it hit EBay. Many of us knew the card was bad immediately, but wanted to gather the necessary evidence before outing it to the world.
I knew that between my scan gallery and Art Martineau's that we would have ample evidence to provide to the seller, EBay and to Beckett to get the card pulled. I had no idea I would find the 2 Cert numbers back to back, but that's how easy it was.
I emailed Leon the information earlier today, as I felt that Beckett and the seller should have head's up before being slammed out of the blue. I haven't spoken to the seller, but another friend had a conversation with him and he was aware of the person or "artist" who did this work. I won't pass judgment on him, because I have no reason to believe that he agreed to sell the card knowing it was bad. He would have way too much to lose.
Sorry for rambling, but Scott, Art, and a few others have been working on this for a few days.
Be well to all. Brian

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

An eBay auction should be about interested bidders bidding up the item, with the highest bidder winning.

I love the game of an odd cent bid winning by 16 cents.

But I don't think that an auction should be about hide and seek among the various categories. I think all auctions should be 'outed'... the only person who'd be opposed to that would be a hopeful bidder who thinks the item will go unnoticed by others.


So out 'em all!!

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Maybe I should edit my post.... The seller's new description or explanation is really a load of crap. About the only thing real in that description is that the "back" of the Drum card came from an Oser auction 10 years ago. I should know, as I have all of the catalogs. Be well Brian


PS No Cobb's with Drum backs......

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Brian, are you saying that there is no such combination?

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

No Jeff,
I know of 4 REAL Cobb/Drum backs. I was explaining that 10 years ago OSER didn't sell one in his catalog. He sold a lot of Drum's and other rare backs, but No Cobb's. Be well Brian

PS Most of the tough backs in his auctions came from the original "rare back collectors" Vivian and Frank Barning.

PS 2. No one has ever disputed that the Cobb/Drum back combination exist, only the number.

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Posted By: Rob

what i want to know, is what will Beckett do about this?

Rob

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Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth

Beckett is going to do nothing about it. Just like PSA would do nothing about it. It is in the holder so it is now been legitimized.

I wonder if Mike Baker knows he broke this card out of the 2 holder...

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Rob,
I think the crew at Beckett is totally different that in 2002, so I doubt they will have much to say. Besides, I doubt they owe the owner anything when he is the one that submitted the cards... Be well Brian


PS I have been critical of BVG in the past, but it seems like the new group is working much harder in the Vintage arena. I hope they continue to improve...

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Greg,
If that card was ever in a PSA 2 holder, one of us whould have a picture, but we don't... Because it doesn't exist... Even John couldn't photoshop that.

Be well Brian

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Posted By: Anthony S.

"Even John couldn't photoshop that."


Wonka, if that's not a gauntlet thrown down, I don't know what is.

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Posted By: Scott Levy

I am always careful to rush to judgment but am now 100% convinced of its rebacked nature.

I'd hate to see someone hurt on this monster. For $50 or $100 we can all take our lickings but this is gonna set someone back 4 digits. Can we either

a) Get stew_p to pick this card up or
b) Get ebay to toss out the auction?

I guess my extra motivation comes from having to undo an ugly deal like this in the past.

Regards,
Scott

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Posted By: Rob

Just doesn't make sense to me ... if Beckett has a new crew and is trying to get a bigger share of the vintage world, wouldn't they want this card out of the current holder?

Rob

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Posted By: Matt

I'm thinking that the board lurker who emailed Jamie not to post this thread so that it would keep his bid down is pretty happy right now...

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Posted By: Eric B

If 6 people email the buyer that it's fake, right after the auction is over, he won't pay for it and won't have to worry about a neg, thanks to the new policy

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Posted By: leon

Beckett's grading director is out of the office. I tried to call him today but was told, I believe, he will be out the rest of the week. I did speak to another grading manager though...regards

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Posted By: John

Brian thanks for the heads up I went away being outbid and came back tonight high bidder, too bad its bum oh well it’s really a shame somebody ruined two perfectly good Drum backs.

I guess I will have to hold my bids on this one until the August Mastro auction, at least then it will be in a PSA holder. I like the look of those holders better anyways.

P.S. Brian I have reason to believe that your T206 Johnson pitching red Hindu is also a fake, please forward to me so I can take it out of circulation say for the next 20yrs or so…

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Posted By: Eric

4 bid retractions so far.

I'm not gonna lie....I was one of those bidding and retracted my bid, thanks to this thread.

Thank goodness for this board, is all I have to say.

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Posted By: Jamie

Im laughing to myself for the guy emailing me pissed about sending the link to the board.. and "outing" the auction.. I helped save him a few thousand bucks...

I agree though.. good thing for the board!!

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Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth

Auction was ended.

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi John,
Glad you made it... But, I'm a little disappointed you didn't post a "frankenCobb picture".

You're right my Johnson does look a little funny, but so does your Kleinow as it came from the same find. Well I guess they are all bad, so let's have a bonfire....

Be well Brian

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Posted By: Rob D.

You're right my Johnson does look a little funny,

Deepest condolences.

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Posted By: Eric

HaHa! Too funny.

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Posted By: David Smith

What is considered good (or acceptable) etiquette when speaking about another board member's Johnson??

David

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

David, you already crossed over the line.