Ripped off by a James Spence lifetime guarantee

[khw]

Originally Posted by Runscott

But your opinions are not the ones that are jokes, right?

Just trying to get it straight who has the right to voice an opinion in a discussion forum, and who doesn't.

everybody has a right to their opinions but not their own facts , i just gave facts , i explained what i have seen when tpa look a item like maris , that was a fact . it is a fact that wayne stivers sold fake autographs after people on here including yourself vouched for him, and it is a fact if someone comes on here and reads some of this tpa bashing they end up convinced that if it is in a holder or has cert is bad, period. and that is not the truth that it just seems priority #1 to first go after tpa , spence right off the top was wrong , who even knows this guys who posted it and if he is telling the truth but if it can throw spence or steve grad under a bus then lets get on it , i dont understand what drinking cool aid is about , dont care really , i sell quite alot of stuff and every piece is certed , hecki have spent thousands of $$$ with stinson , because he has good pieces ,look at my feedback and i may be wrong because i sell alot of stuff , so maybe 700 items a month on ebay maybe another 200 on drop shipping and that isnt counting upper deck topps or whoever and again i may be wrong but i can not recall having a item sent back to me as bad , not a single one , so my feedback of actually being in this business for 25 years is a fact holding a table at the national for over 20 years and the customers who buy and appreciate items coming from a legit seller who chooses to have items they have bought as real, certed by a tpa and backed up for life , the main fact i have is my rep and my business

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by khw

everybody has a right to their opinions but not their own facts , i just gave facts , i explained what i have seen when tpa look a item like maris , that was a fact . it is a fact that wayne stivers sold fake autographs after people on here including yourself vouched for him, and it is a fact if someone comes on here and reads some of this tpa bashing they end up convinced that if it is in a holder or has cert is bad, period. and that is not the truth that it just seems priority #1 to first go after tpa , spence right off the top was wrong , who even knows this guys who posted it and if he is telling the truth but if it can throw spence or steve grad under a bus then lets get on it , i dont understand what drinking cool aid is about , dont care really , i sell quite alot of stuff and every piece is certed , hecki have spent thousands of $$$ with stinson , because he has good pieces ,look at my feedback and i may be wrong because i sell alot of stuff , so maybe 700 items a month on ebay maybe another 200 on drop shipping and that isnt counting upper deck topps or whoever and again i may be wrong but i can not recall having a item sent back to me as bad , not a single one , so my feedback of actually being in this business for 25 years is a fact holding a table at the national for over 20 years and the customers who buy and appreciate items coming from a legit seller who chooses to have items they have bought as real, certed by a tpa and backed up for life , the main fact i have is my rep and my business

Stop it Kirk, we really know that you're just not smart enough to know a real autograph from a forgery. Without TPA's you would be lost at sea too.

[drcy]

-- COLLECTOR: "How much to give an opinion about the authenticity of this item I just bought for $30,000?"
-- ME: "$10."
-- COLLECTOR: "How much to give an opinion with a money back guarantee for what I paid for the item?"
-- ME: "$30,000."

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by khw

everybody has a right to their opinions but not their own facts , i just gave facts , i explained what i have seen when tpa look a item like maris , that was a fact . it is a fact that wayne stivers sold fake autographs after people on here including yourself vouched for him, and it is a fact if someone comes on here and reads some of this tpa bashing they end up convinced that if it is in a holder or has cert is bad, period. and that is not the truth that it just seems priority #1 to first go after tpa , spence right off the top was wrong , who even knows this guys who posted it and if he is telling the truth but if it can throw spence or steve grad under a bus then lets get on it , i dont understand what drinking cool aid is about , dont care really , i sell quite alot of stuff and every piece is certed , hecki have spent thousands of $$$ with stinson , because he has good pieces ,look at my feedback and i may be wrong because i sell alot of stuff , so maybe 700 items a month on ebay maybe another 200 on drop shipping and that isnt counting upper deck topps or whoever and again i may be wrong but i can not recall having a item sent back to me as bad , not a single one , so my feedback of actually being in this business for 25 years is a fact holding a table at the national for over 20 years and the customers who buy and appreciate items coming from a legit seller who chooses to have items they have bought as real, certed by a tpa and backed up for life , the main fact i have is my rep and my business

I would like to point out, Kirk, that I've always felt you are a stand-up guy. However, a few years ago, you were selling a Rick Reuschel ball that the TPA identified as someone more desirable (there was a thread on it either here or GUU that I could probably search for if I really needed to.) I know I emailed you twice about it, telling you it was Reuschel and a $20 ball and the TPA got it wrong. You never responded and left the ball up on ebay for a long time. IMHO, that told me you were married to the TPA's word.

Ken

[JimStinson]

[I]This is RICH Jim. Coming from someone who knows autographs and hooked up with Jimmy Spence and others to form PSA/DNA authentication. TPA's are no good for anyone, but it was OK for you in the past when you weregetting paid. Come on. Kirk and I are drinking the Kool-Aid. You don't even give your opinion anymore, you just come in and accuse us of drinking the Kool-aid.[/I]

Oh the Kool Aid pictures ? I had meant to post them in the "Refreshing Beverages" forum and ended up here by accident..my bad , Seriously I like Kirk and not sure if I know you Jason but would probably hit it off swell with you too.

But to set the record straight I never formed any authentication company with Spence. or anyone else. I was hired as an on site consultant in 1998, Along with J.S. and two others familiar to this board. No one had ever HEARD of a commercial authentication company then Because none existed. I knew Spence. from the card show days when he would watch Mark J.'s Table for him. He wore out at least one pair of shoes at every show asking me and other autograph dealers "Is this real?", "Is this real" ? , But he was a likeable chap (and probably still is) and we became friends. He was even a guest at my wedding in Havana in 2000. And a frequent visitor to my home. As things often happen he went his way and I went mine but Up until a year ago I often received scans from him requesting my opinions which I gave ..for free. An unfortunate series of events unfolded and the scans and phone calls ended. As for my giving opinions for free on this board you may recall I had regularly contributed my opinions for free, Even with the help of the moderator of this board generated thousands of dollars that were donated to the Red Cross for Hurricane Sandy relief.
I stopped giving opinions in a public forum only when I learned that certain items had already been opinionated on and if my opinion was contrary it created issues. Its never been my intent to be "controversial" or a "crusader" or anyone's enemy, unless of course I'm attacked and then my right is to defend myself. Otherwise with regards to anyone's beliefs and opinions both inside and outside of the hobby they certainly are entitled to them and if the current "status quo" with regards to TPA.'s or any enterprise works for them so be it ....I've no axe to grind or dog in the fight, to each his own.
_____________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[khw]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

I would like to point out, Kirk, that I've always felt you are a stand-up guy. However, a few years ago, you were selling a Rick Reuschel ball that the TPA identified as someone more desirable (there was a thread on it either here or GUU that I could probably search for if I really needed to.) I know I emailed you twice about it, telling you it was Reuschel and a $20 ball and the TPA got it wrong. You never responded and left the ball up on ebay for a long time. IMHO, that told me you were married to the TPA's word.

Ken

humm if i remember i took that off and what was what 5 years ago? exactly what i am talking about , perfect case , i sell maybe 7000 items a year on ebay and have at any given time lets say 19000 items running so in 5 years what are we looking 50000 plus differnt items and somebody comes and and says look here i found one a 20.00 baseball. just 3 days ago i listed a bench postcard and i guy emailed me and said it was preprinted it was taken off within what 5 minutes? , you guys would twist turn do anything you can to try and chime in to discredit somebody if it puts you in the in crowd shame on you . a rick reuschel baseball 5years ago and that proves to me you are married to tpa , and in turn on of them, but the bottom line is always , wait dont trust them buy from me!!!!

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by JimStinson

[I]This is RICH Jim. Coming from someone who knows autographs and hooked up with Jimmy Spence and others to form PSA/DNA authentication. TPA's are no good for anyone, but it was OK for you in the past when you weregetting paid. Come on. Kirk and I are drinking the Kool-Aid. You don't even give your opinion anymore, you just come in and accuse us of drinking the Kool-aid.[/I]

Oh the Kool Aid pictures ? I had meant to post them in the "Refreshing Beverages" forum and ended up here by accident..my bad , Seriously I like Kirk and not sure if I know you Jason but would probably hit it off swell with you too.

But to set the record straight I never formed any authentication company with Spence. or anyone else. I was hired as an on site consultant in 1998, Along with J.S. and two others familiar to this board. No one had ever HEARD of a commercial authentication company then Because none existed. I knew Spence. from the card show days when he would watch Mark J.'s Table for him. He wore out at least one pair of shoes at every show asking me and other autograph dealers "Is this real?", "Is this real" ? , But he was a likeable chap (and probably still is) and we became friends. He was even a guest at my wedding in Havana in 2000. And a frequent visitor to my home. As things often happen he went his way and I went mine but Up until a year ago I often received scans from him requesting my opinions which I gave ..for free. An unfortunate series of events unfolded and the scans and phone calls ended. As for my giving opinions for free on this board you may recall I had regularly contributed my opinions for free, Even with the help of the moderator of this board generated thousands of dollars that were donated to the Red Cross for Hurricane Sandy relief.
I stopped giving opinions in a public forum only when I learned that certain items had already been opinionated on and if my opinion was contrary it created issues. Its never been my intent to be "controversial" or a "crusader" or anyone's enemy, unless of course I'm attacked and then my right is to defend myself. Otherwise with regards to anyone's beliefs and opinions both inside and outside of the hobby they certainly are entitled to them and if the current "status quo" with regards to TPA.'s or any enterprise works for them so be it ....I've no axe to grind or dog in the fight, to each his own.
_____________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

I don't think your reputation as an autograph dealer / authenticator is in question, it's the comment out of the blue that had nothing to do with the thread. You may have had a falling out with Spence and the other TPA's, but that doesn't mean other people can't use them. I'm not sticking up for their (TPA) mistakes, they make them. I am just giving my opinion on how this played out. As I said before, I don't really care one way or another about JSA's business. Bottom line is this is a free country and anyone can do as they wish and shouldn't be ridiculed for asking / paying for an opinion if they so wish.

In regards to giving your opinion on signatures on the board, no good deed goes unpunished.

[EricS]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Oh, that's no joke!

I read your posts on GUU, where I don't post much. Everyone over there has treated me well, but like you over here, there just isn't much for me to talk about over there. When I talk game-used, I feel kind of dumb (because I am).

I did really want to discuss a game-used screwing that someone recently took, and doesn't even yet know about, but I was afraid I would get the virtual hell beat out of me. Yeah, by pure coincidence, the vintage guy knows about someone unknowingly taking a $1,500 screwing. And I have some lovely photo evidence as well.

Would love to hear about the "game-used screwing." Please post it on GUU. I will look for it.

As for this thread, I have to take myself out of this. There is entirely too much hostility to have a decent conversation. Thanks to everyone for your input here. Good luck.

[packs]

In my opinion the TPA's are necessary to the hobby. There should be something impartial in authentication. If you're a seller with a good reputation and you've been in the hobby for X years, know X about Y, to me you're still trying to sell me something.

A third party is impartial. They have no vested interest. Third party authentication could always been improved upon. No doubt. The current TPA's may not be getting it done but I still think there needs to be a TPA.

[Exhibitman]

Of course the OP called JSA to speak to Spence. It is his company. It is him at the National fronting for it. It ain't like he's a celebrity lending his name to WalMart for a TPA line. Of course there are muckrakers on N54, because there is quite a bit of muck to rake in this hobby. Of course TPAs make mistakes, because unless you saw the athlete put pen to paper or ball it is all a matter of opinion. None of that is debated or debatable or worthy of a rehash. What is at the core here is accountability. There are lots of 'experts' in this hobby who are long on opinions but short on assuming responsibility for them. A collector should not have to shame or strong-arm or sue a TPG/TPA/dealer into honoring a guarantee, but that is where this hobby has gone because so many of them refuse to stand behind their work product until they are shamed or sued.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by packs

In my opinion the TPA's are necessary to the hobby. There should be something impartial in authentication. If you're a seller with a good reputation and you've been in the hobby for X years, know X about Y, to me you're still trying to sell me something.

A third party is impartial. They have no vested interest. Third party authentication could always been improved upon. No doubt. But I can't see how people can say that there is no place for TPA's in the hobby. The current TPA's may not be getting it done but I still think there needs to be a TPA.

They are not impartial, and they do have a vested interest: obtaining and keeping an auction house gig. That's where the money is.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

I'm SO tired of the "I got robbed by an object that came with PSA or JSA authentication" line of shit. Oh, whoa is me and my 1927 Yankees ball. I thought you were so fucking smart and the only preeminent Ruth and Gehrig expert in the hobby. How did you ever make a mistake as you see everything like it's yesterday's news. It should have been a glaring red flag like all the other stuff you look at and act like everyone should know better when they ask about a Ruth signature opinion.

If you're referring to me, you don't know what the f**k you're talking about. From the very beginning I made it perfectly clear that I bought that baseball because I thought it was real, not because it had a Spence CoA.

Some people ask for my opinion because they think my opinion has some value. It may or it may not, but I always try to help, and I never belittle the person asking.

So, Jason, you can kiss my ass.

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

If you're referring to me, you don't know what the f**k you're talking about. From the very beginning I made it perfectly clear that I bought that baseball because I thought it was real, not because it had a Spence CoA.

Some people ask for my opinion because they think my opinion has some value. It may or it may not, but I always try to help, and I never belittle the person asking.

So, Jason, you can kiss my ass.

Exactly, meaning everyone is capable of making mistakes no matter how much you know or don't know. You make a comment as to blame a Spence letter for your mistake.

Many times your "help" has a lot of negative tones. It makes you sound like the ass you are. So, if you plan on helping help. If you want to here yourself grandstand, save it for one of your students that has to listen to your jibber jabber.

[cubsfan-budman]

This is ludicrous. The whole thread isnt about whether or not it's ok to make a mistake. This is about standing behind a guarantee that was part of the purchase price of a product that was bought.

The OP was getting screwed even though he had a "lifetime warranty" until he caused a ruckus...then suddenly he gets the service he deserved.

Case friggin closed.

[yanks12025]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Oh, that's no joke!

I read your posts on GUU, where I don't post much. Everyone over there has treated me well, but like you over here, there just isn't much for me to talk about over there. When I talk game-used, I feel kind of dumb (because I am).

I did really want to discuss a game-used screwing that someone recently took, and doesn't even yet know about, but I was afraid I would get the virtual hell beat out of me. Yeah, by pure coincidence, the vintage guy knows about someone unknowingly taking a $1,500 screwing. And I have some lovely photo evidence as well.

I don't understabd collectors who have information about a possible bad item. But instead don't speak up and not say anything. So what if the person gets upset. It's better to say it then not too. Just my thought.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

This is ludicrous. The whole thread isnt about whether or not it's ok to make a mistake. This is about standing behind a guarantee that was part of the purchase price of a product that was bought.

The OP was getting screwed even though he had a "lifetime warranty" until he caused a ruckus...then suddenly he gets the service he deserved.

Case friggin closed.

+1

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

If you want to here yourself grandstand, save it for one of your students that has to listen to your jibber jabber.

Wow! Here's a little help for you, Jason. It's "hear yourself grandstand," and "one of your students who has to listen." And, referring to your previous post, it's "woe is me." ("Whoa" is what you say to a horse.)

Perhaps you should have paid a bit more attention to that jibber jabber in school.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

I don't understabd collectors who have information about a possible bad item. But instead don't speak up and not say anything. So what if the person gets upset. It's better to say it then not too. Just my thought.

Brock, I appreciate and understand. The "beating" I referenced was not by the actual owner, but by others - just not up for it. If you would like to email me to discuss, I would be happy to - perhaps you have some ideas I haven't thought of.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Runscott

2013 - 2 posts regarding your wax pack complaints
2014 - 2 posts regarding your baseball complaints
2015 - ???

Perhaps we should start a poll as to what you will rejoin us for to complain about in 2015

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