Collectors (PSA) Acquired SGC

[D. Bergin]

I don't think there's going to be a mixed registry, or even a registry on the horizon. At least in the somewhat near-term.

People who send their stuff to SGC obviously don't really care about a registry to begin with. They just want accurate-ish grades, a quicker turnaround, and semi-attractive holders.

I think 1st things 1st, is the search engine for the pop report needs to be cleaned up. Just looking through the T206's while submitting, there can be multiple choices for the exact same card, while not even offering a choice on the various back variations within each brand that has them.

Can be even more confusing with many of the more obscure tobacco sets.

I don't know how much money PSA paid for SGC, but if most that was said is to be believed, hopefully there's language in the contract that forbids PSA from disappearing the brand or even many of it's practices from existence.

I've also just sent in 21 cards to SGC that I've been procrastinating on for awhile. Nothing to knock your socks off, but the announcement kind of motivated me to get it done. Figured I'd already dragged my ass on them for awhile...didn't want to give PSA 6 more months to drag their ass on them on top of that.

I have a hard time believing PSA spent a lot of money just to disappear SGC and alienate a load of vintage collectors in the process. Many who have no interest in losing contact with their cards for months (much, much longer in the not so distant past) on end, and likely wouldn't get a lot of their cards graded otherwise.

Whatever market share SGC has...PSA isn't going to just get it, simply by doing things the way PSA has always done things. SGC got most of that market share by doing certain things different from PSA to begin with.

A lot of collectors will just as soon keep most of their lower grade/value stuff raw, or in whatever holders they already reside in.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I've also just sent in 21 cards to SGC that I've been procrastinating on for awhile. Nothing to knock your socks off, but the announcement kind of motivated me to get it done.

Interesting - I have a stack that I was planning to send them but this news changed my mind. They will either remain raw or go to CGC, for now at least.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Leon

The last time I spoke to SGC, at a National, they told me that Dave F was behind the curtain grading cards. Think about that for a minute.

Do I really need to say anything else?

ps... I think this bodes very well for CGC too...

oh, oh,

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Interesting - I have a stack that I was planning to send them but this news changed my mind. They will either remain raw or go to CGC, for now at least.

I was on the CGC/CGS bandwagon in the beginning, but they really lost me with their flip-flopping early on. I've got a bunch of those green flips I feel like I just wasted my money on.

They changed their name, changed their holders, supposedly changed their grading standards.

Just can't picture putting a T206 in one of their holders. Newer stuff yes, but not vintage.

I probably like CGC's product better then PSA, but if PSA could just figure out how to drastically improve their turnaround time, they would probably put a nail in the coffin of the sports card division of CGC.

[calvindog]

If you have any interest in maximizing the value of your cards, how can you use CGC? I'm asking seriously. It's like throwing money away if you expect to sell your cards someday.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Dave doesn’t work in the Peace Corps, he runs a business and has a family. And there have been plenty of times he could have sold SGC but didn’t because he didn’t want to leave SGC customers holding the bag. He felt comfortable this time because SGC will largely remain SGC but with improvements that only Collectors can provide. It’s human nature to presume the worst, and some trepidation is understandable. But I don’t believe the sky is falling, I think SGC will become a better version of itself.

well put, as only you can...

"Most things that I worry about, never happen anyway".

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Happy talk keep talkin' happy talk.

happy Happy Joy joy

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by calvindog

If you have any interest in maximizing the value of your cards, how can you use CGC? I'm asking seriously. It's like throwing money away if you expect to sell your cards someday.

At this time, I do agree with this sentiment. Collectors can do what they want, but if you do want to maximize your cards, I would not use CGC. That’s like showing up to play Pebble Beach with clubs you bought from Goodwill.

[Vintagedeputy]

Just an FYI -

I sent an email to SGC expressing my displeasure with the merger. For whatever it is worth, here is their reply:

Thank you for reaching out. Reading your email, I can tell how loyal and passionate you are about the SGC Brand. I can confirm that SGC has been acquired by Collectors, however, with the start of this new chapter for SGC, I am pleased to let you know that there are no changes happening with SGC. You can still expect the same service as before with our turnaround time, our collector friendly grading fees, and our Customer Service Team. Please feel free to reach out at any time if you have any questions or concerns and I assure you we will be more than happy to do what we can to continue to offer the highest level of service that our customers have become accustomed to.

[Snowman]

I think it might be ebay that is buying Goldin Auctions.

[brunswickreeves]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

Just an FYI -

I sent an email to SGC expressing my displeasure with the merger. For whatever it is worth, here is their reply:

Thank you for reaching out. Reading your email, I can tell how loyal and passionate you are about the SGC Brand. I can confirm that SGC has been acquired by Collectors, however, with the start of this new chapter for SGC, I am pleased to let you know that there are no changes happening with SGC. You can still expect the same service as before with our turnaround time, our collector friendly grading fees, and our Customer Service Team. Please feel free to reach out at any time if you have any questions or concerns and I assure you we will be more than happy to do what we can to continue to offer the highest level of service that our customers have become accustomed to.

Was that from Brent?

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Dave doesn’t work in the Peace Corps, he runs a business and has a family. And there have been plenty of times he could have sold SGC but didn’t because he didn’t want to leave SGC customers holding the bag. He felt comfortable this time because SGC will largely remain SGC but with improvements that only Collectors can provide. It’s human nature to presume the worst, and some trepidation is understandable. But I don’t believe the sky is falling, I think SGC will become a better version of itself.

Jeff, I wasn't attacking Dave, despite a few ethics concerns I may have, only that he took his megabucks when the right opportunity came along, just like most sane people would. Money drives the sports card hobby, just as it does for the whole economy. Money drives human emotions, too, with greed being one of the worst. Just look at all the devious practices going on in our own industry.
And, I have to say, I don't think Dave and the Peace Corps would have been a good fit.

[RayBShotz]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

Just an FYI -

I sent an email to SGC expressing my displeasure with the merger. For whatever it is worth, here is their reply:

Thank you for reaching out. Reading your email, I can tell how loyal and passionate you are about the SGC Brand. I can confirm that SGC has been acquired by Collectors, however, with the start of this new chapter for SGC, I am pleased to let you know that there are no changes happening with SGC. You can still expect the same service as before with our turnaround time, our collector friendly grading fees, and our Customer Service Team. Please feel free to reach out at any time if you have any questions or concerns and I assure you we will be more than happy to do what we can to continue to offer the highest level of service that our customers have become accustomed to.

In the business that's called, "boiler plate".

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by brunswickreeves

Was that from Brent?

I sent it to Brent, but it came back from Tyler.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Jeff, I wasn't attacking Dave, despite a few ethics concerns I may have, only that he took his megabucks when the right opportunity came along, just like most sane people would. Money drives the sports card hobby, just as it does for the whole economy. Money drives human emotions, too, with greed being one of the worst. Just look at all the devious practices going on in our own industry.
And, I have to say, I don't think Dave and the Peace Corps would have been a good fit.

He did what every Net 54 member would have done. The only difference is that he got the offer and no one did on Net 54. That might explain some of the sour grapes.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by RayBShotz

In the business that's called, "boiler plate".

You can say that again!

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by RayBShotz

In the business that's called, "boiler plate".

Kind of surprising he didn't craft 300 or 400 personalized responses.

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by RayBShotz

In the business that's called, "boiler plate".

Agreed, and that’s why I prefaced it with “for whatever it’s worth”. I know to an extent it’s a canned response, but at least I got a same-day reply, and had a chance to voice my displeasure. I guess only time will tell whether or not SGC remains true to their core.

[wolverinejayhawks]

This acquisiton is going to be very bad for the pricing of grading. Before the acquistion, it was pretty much a 4-firm Oligopoly with pricing remaining pretty high coming out of the pandemic and not returning to pre-pandemic levels. SGC became aggressive with fast $15 grading which hurt PSA, and PSA had to respond recently with better specials and reducing their backlog. The only thing propping up PSA's volume was a surge in TCG cards (which you can see on GEMRATE - Google it if you don't know GEMRATE), which is going to level off once the first wave of TCG collectors discovering grading ends.

Now, we are stuck with PSA/SGC, a seemingly disinterested BGS and a weakened CGS/CGC, which is a 3-firm Oligopoly where two of the firms are weak. I don't count other grading services (GMA, etc.) because they don't have the name, reputation and volume for auction buyers to pay attention on eBay and other outlets. I give SGC's $15 price with $9 for TCG about 2 months before "inflation" causes a price increase.

The FTC should leave Kroger alone and block PSA/SGC merger!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Yep, the smooth talking BS when prices go up will be amusing.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Yep, the smooth talking BS when prices go up will be amusing.

So true they’re bitching now but will all be Kumbaya when they have to grade cards, and we all know most people are addicted to grading cards.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

So true they’re bitching now but will all be Kumbaya when they have to grade cards, and we all know most people are addicted to grading cards.

Is that why it’s called crack?? (and resubmit)

[jjbond]

Best case scenario?
- PSA focuses on modern cards
- SGC focuses on vintage cards

I think that would solve one of the seeming issues in grading, where it feels like graders trained on modern cards are then asked to grade vintage cards. If they split up the expertise into two separate groups perhaps they'd turn out a better product?

(But do I think this will happen? No.)

[bcookie]

I just looked at the PSA grading "specials" for the month..

I have not been a PSA member in 10+ years, boy how the fees and turnaround times have changed.

I sure hope SGC stays the same, I cant imaging paying $15 bucks a card and waiting 2+ months to get the card back

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by RayBShotz

In the business that's called, "boiler plate".

And/or "damage control."

[Directly]

Will SGC cards loose their value, will buyers even want the SGC graded cards or offer pennies on the dollar? -will future SGC submissions cease to exist, is this the ultimate plan -?? confused in the Show Me State.

[Lobo Aullando]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I think it might be ebay that is buying Goldin Auctions.

Is there any other line where they take control of the product? They even sub out authentication. (I wonder how that'll go with the merger.)

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Svabinsky78

Personally speaking, even if PSA offered a cross and guaranteed the grade, I would not waste my money to cross over. SGC has been and still is a reputable company. I guess some folks may see SGC slabbed cards as less desirable, but that does not bother me.

I would cross whatever I could if the grades were guaranteed, just to have uniformity. OCD impulses uber alles.

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Originally Posted by Directly

Will SGC cards loose their value, will buyers even want the SGC graded cards or offer pennies on the dollar? -will future SGC submissions cease to exist, is this the ultimate plan -?? confused in the Show Me State.

No, SGC cards won't lose their value and be valued at pennies on the dollar. It's not like this company went out of business or did something terrible. They were purchased. Those with SGC cards don't need to panic. It's still about the cards, not the holders they might be in. Relax and enjoy the cards.

[EddieP]

SGC slabs will be worthless . Anyone with a Ruth or Jackson in an SGC slab, I’ll be willing to help you cut your loss by buying your cards

[Rhotchkiss]

Agreed. These and everything else in SGC slabs are worthless!!

No seriously, the cards are still the cards and SGC’s reputation is still the best for grading prewar baseball. As mentioned, they aren’t going out of business and they haven’t done anything wrong to tarnish their work/reputation. Time will tell what becomes of SGC. If SGC is eventually closed down, for those who need a flip (like me), I expect PSA will cross all cards, likely at a discount, but upon review. Honestly, If prices on SGC cards plummet, I am a buyer.

[3-2-count]

Totally agree Ryan. The cards are still the cards in reputable slabs, and if they're crossed down the road so be it.

Lots of negative noise going on over this, for no reason in my opinion!

[Peter_Spaeth]

I hope you guys are right, as my prewar is about 50 50, but I fear the scenario where SGC values eventually drop substantially and at least the older graded cards cross at a grade lower in part because standards are higher and in part because that's how PSA does things. I imagine for people who are active submitters this is a dilemma too because apparently for many people it's impossible to get fair grades out of PSA now, but submitting to SGC may not be prudent going forward.

[conor912]

Am I going crazy, or did I see something in the last week or so about Fanatics looking to dump Goldin?

[JamesGallo]

For the people that think SGC cards wont drop in value i think your nuts. Maybe if the company stays that maybe true but without the confidence that they wont just close tomorrow there will always be that in the back of my head. Also tons of cards have been rejected by psa only to be slabbed by sgc. So these cards should never cross assuming the standards stay the same. That sgc 4 becomes a PSA minimum size and your losing a ton of value.

In the end i agree nothing i can do but ride it out, but i wont be subbing to sgc anymore and will only buy a card if i dont care about the grade.

CGC is doing a ton with TCG cards and i do not think they will gain much traction until they make a lot of improvements. The green label was a horrible choice, so the move was good but i dont like the all black either.

I have a lot of value in SGC slabs and long term i do think it could be a problem…

James G

[Peter_Spaeth]

It would not surprise me at all to see a ton of SGC cards for sale soon as guys calculate it's better to get what they can now rather than take the crossover risk or wait for the brand to be further devalued.

[Johnny630]

When the SGC Slabs are no longer produced as part of Collectors and become one Slab United as PSA ( it makes no sense in my mind to have one company going public to have two different slabs) the newly graded cards will all be in PSA slabs and will become part of the registry and pop the old sgc slabs will not. Regarding the crossover of old SGC slabs, I do not know if you could be offered a discounted rate, but I don’t think PSA will cross them over at the same grade. This will probably happen in my mind before they go public, so within the next approximately two years or so would be my estimation. Time will tell. If you have powerful cards and SGC you are fine they’re still very reputable. However, if you have lower tier and lower grades, there could be an issue down the road getting those crossed over the good stuff will remain good. The average stuff could be less than average.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

When the SGC Slabs are no longer produced as part of Collectors and become one Slab United as PSA ( it makes no sense in my mind to have one company going public to have two different slabs) the newly graded cards will all be in PSA slabs and will become part of the registry and pop the old sgc slabs will not. Regarding the crossover of old SGC slabs, I do not know if you could be offered a discounted rate, but I don’t think PSA will cross them over at the same grade. This will probably happen in my mind before they go public, so within the next approximately two years or so would be my estimation. Time will tell. If you have powerful cards and SGC you are fine they’re still very reputable. However, if you have lower tier and lower grades, there could be an issue down the road getting those crossed over the good stuff will remain good. The average stuff could be less than average.

I don't completely agree. If the brand is discontinued, reputable or not, the value of a discontinued slab is going to be diminished particularly if people are having bad or mixed experiences crossing over as I expect will be the case. 1-1.5 grades lower is bad enough, min size or AUTH is an earthquake.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I don't completely agree. If the brand is discontinued, reputable or not, the value of a discontinued slab is going to be diminished particularly if people are having bad or mixed experiences crossing over as I expect will be the case. 1-1.5 grades lower is bad enough, min size or AUTH is an earthquake.

Subpar cards yes stuff like Rochkiss has doesn't matter no need to even wanna cross. Even though going forward you prob won't be able to get your cards into PSA holders people with heavy hitters in SGC slabs like Ryan can keep as is with no diminish upside. Sub par sgc cards in old slabs I agree with you they could go down.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Subpar cards yes stuff like Rochkiss has doesn't matter no need to even wanna cross. Even though going forward you prob won't be able to get your cards into PSA holders people with heavy hitters in SGC slabs like Ryan can keep as is with no diminish upside. Sub par sgc cards in old slabs I agree with you they could go down.

Perhaps but the vast majority of us don't have material like Ryan of course. My immediate concern are things like midgrade Goudey Ruths, T206 HOFers, etc. Nice problem to have, I get it, but still losing 1-1.5 grades or conceivably worse would suck.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Perhaps but the vast majority of us don't have material like Ryan of course. My immediate concern are things like midgrade Goudey Ruths, T206 HOFers, etc. Nice problem to have, I get it, but still losing 1-1.5 grades or conceivably worse would suck.

Yes….I could see that happening.….people with the cards you mentioned will try to cross now if they're concerned or want to hedge.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Yes….I could see that happening.….people with the cards you mentioned will try to cross now if they're concerned or want to hedge.

Or sell.

[Svabinsky78]

SGC has built a great reputation for vintage. I don't think that the purchase of SGC by Collectors in any way diminishes that reputation. You still have a card in a reputable slab. I don't really see a reason why a vintage card in an SGC slabs going forward should be worth considerably less because the company was bought out.

As for CGC/CSG, I use them mainly for modernish cards. I dislike the sleeve they use for smaller sizes vintage but for standard sized cards, I think they are a terrific alternative to PSA, solid grading and lovely slabs. Yes, resale value is nowhere near PSA but I am not a flipper, so I don't really care.

[Fred]

There is so much stuff graded by SGC. This isn't like GAI because collectors/hobbyist/investors understood the difference between older graded GAI cards and the later graded GAI cards. In my opinion, that's why cards in a GAI slab sells at a discount when compared to PSA and SGC.

If PSA were to shutter SGC, then most collectors/hobbyist/investors understand that SGC cards are probably on par with PSA when the actual grade is concerned, however, it seems that SGC slabbed cards get the same or a little less than PSA cards. Bottom line, it's the appeal of the card to the buyer that's going to dictate the final price in a sale (not auction).

I'd be surprised if PSA were to merge/add the SGC population to the PSA registry.

In the end, who gives a crap? It's all the same because nothing really changes when considering the apathetic attitude taken with regard to all the TPGs inability to be consistent in assessing pieces of cardboard.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Eventually the market is going to devalue defunct slabs IMO, reputable or not. And the assumption will be the owner wasn't able to cross the card, or knew it would not cross, as the assumption now is for GAI. Which it turn will devalue SGC slabs further. This will take time, but I think it's the future. No good comes of this, in the end. For the man on the street, anyhow.

[conor912]

I agree that nothing is safe now. Grading standards are now fluid. Just because your card is slabbed a 3 doesn’t mean it will be a 3 in X years. Twenty year old slabs are already getting the, “That’s an old slab and would never grade that today” treatment.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It would not surprise me at all to see a ton of SGC cards for sale soon as guys calculate it's better to get what they can now rather than take the crossover risk or wait for the brand to be further devalued.

Great, bring it on! What a buying feast for those that consider the card primary over the flip.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Great, bring it on! What a buying feast for those that consider the card primary over the flip.

Yoda’s approach will certainly appeal to part of the collecting base. And certainly I find that notion to be attractive as well.

But if some of the fears expressed here come to fruition, in some ways it exposes the potential fragility of current valuations for high grade stuff, and not just for SGC, but for those of us with our collections in PSA slabs as well.

Recalls to mind some of the recent marveling we’ve done at a PSA 9 slabs selling for 100x the PSA 8 slabs for some vintage pieces of common players.

The whole thing smacks of the emperor whose clothing wasn’t as fine as those around him suggested it was. Maybe Jingram was right all along…

[Lorewalker]

It is not just because of PSA's registry that their cards, for the most part, sell for a premium over an SGC counterpart but also that when buying PSA you are buying into a much larger company. SGC was owned by one guy...some of whom claim he has a bad rep. Maybe this hurt their resale value or peoples' desire to invest in those holders, whether or not they did a better job or not?

The owner of SGC made a great business decision for himself. It is too bad for all of the collectors that the buyer of SGC was a competitor who will, sooner than later, eliminate the brand. At the end of the day, collectors who stuck with SGC were inventing in the owner, not the company.

[The Detroit Collector]

I was looking through some cards and noticed I have some graded by Sports Collectors Digest. A reputable company back in the day that got bought out as well. I don't see SCD slabs anymore these days, but if I did, I doubt you would have to pay the same price as a PSA or SGC graded version.
Point I am trying to make is, as some have mentioned, if SGC is no longer a company in the future, I can see the value of low tier SGC slabbed cards dropping.