PWCC Statement on Recent Card Trimming Concerns

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by swarmee

there is absolutely no discussion on the psa message board.

poof

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by swarmee

There is absolutely no discussion on the PSA message board.

SO corrupt...

I usually hate it when people link these things... but found an appropriate sound track for the imminent American Greed episode about PWCC and PSA. Innovative alternative band, perhaps most famous for doing the South Park theme song...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=953PkxFNiko

They should repeat that ominous bass line all throughout the impending episode.

Edit: Click to skip the ad

[irv]

Maybe this has already been posted but I just seen it on Facebook.

[Buythatcard]

Originally Posted by irv

Maybe this has already been posted but I just seen it on Facebook.

Great card but it looks doctored.

[mikemb]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

Great card but it looks doctored.

Send it in to PSA to make sure!

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by irv

Maybe this has already been posted but I just seen it on Facebook.

That would be an awesome card to hand out with the other freebies at the National. All attendees should get one in their goody bags.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by perezfan

That would be an awesome card to hand out with the other freebies at the National. All attendees should get one in their goody bags.

that IS a great idea!!!!

[SMPEP]

I recall people asking months ago what would become the next 7 figure card.

Who knew it hadn't even been created at the time the question was asked?

The Moser/Orlando/Huigens RC is now on my wantlist!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

Great card but it looks doctored.

Top bottom centering is off, rule out Matt and Sam.

[drcy]

There is a thread about it on the PSA board, and numerous people in the thread are well aware and disturbed about the situation. However, the forum is closely moderated by PSA, and the members know it, so don't expect as vigorous a discussion as elsewhere.

[swarmee]

The threads on their first page are named: "Alteration vs. Conservation (Now Defined by PWCC)", "Did PWCC Remove the Ultra-High resolution pictures from the Marketplace?", "PWCC reply to recent issues", "PWCC blocked me after my first and only return", and "Questions for Steve Sloan" (immediately locked).

Zero of those titles say "Trimmers", "Scandal", "PSA", "BGS", "FBI", or any other interesting keywords that might let someone know there is a major hobby story going on that they should be paying attention to. Reading those threads, it's quite clear that many people have no idea what's going on, and the ones that do sort of know, many are missing major pieces of the story.

The last one of those threads that has a response was, I think, 6 hours ago.

[jason.1969]

Glad mine came back from grading before the scandal hit. Note also the even rarer F*ckface variation!

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[JeremyW]

And the ever-elusive PSA 11. Sell now!

[70ToppsFanatic]

Originally Posted by swarmee

The threads on their first page are named: "Alteration vs. Conservation (Now Defined by PWCC)", "Did PWCC Remove the Ultra-High resolution pictures from the Marketplace?", "PWCC reply to recent issues", "PWCC blocked me after my first and only return", and "Questions for Steve Sloan" (immediately locked).

Zero of those titles say "Trimmers", "Scandal", "PSA", "BGS", "FBI", or any other interesting keywords that might let someone know there is a major hobby story going on that they should be paying attention to. Reading those threads, it's quite clear that many people have no idea what's going on, and the ones that do sort of know, many are missing major pieces of the story.

The last one of those threads that has a response was, I think, 6 hours ago.

In the past threads on the forum have been known to go “poof” and disappear, with some of the posters then being banned from further participation when they contained things that the host of the forum did not like.

At least this time the discussion has been allowed to continue without censorship.

There are probably many things PSA needs to improve on, but considering what used to happen this is actually a step in the right direction.

[JollyElm]

PWCC is now auctioning off the sphinx, a Moser consignment...

Egyptian-Sphinx-with-a-Nose-31499.jpg

[drcy]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

PWCC is now auctioning off the sphinx, a Moser consignment...

Attachment 355479

I laughed

[swarmee]

You hit it right on the nose.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

PWCC is now auctioning off the sphinx, a Moser consignment...

Attachment 355479

Actually wouldn't he have trimmed away more of the face to make the nose look correct?

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by irv

Maybe this has already been posted but I just seen it on Facebook.

Can you please send me a link or find out who did this beautiful card. I would like to have them printed as real cards and handed out at the National at my expense. Thanks

[CMIZ5290]

Meanwhile......Huigens and Probstein are laughing their asses off.....

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

Can you please send me a link or find out who did this beautiful card. I would like to have them printed as real cards and handed out at the National at my expense. Thanks

Awesome!!!! Some guy on bo made it.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by jason.1969

Glad mine came back from grading before the scandal hit. Note also the even rarer F*ckface variation!

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

That Moser fellow looks a lot like my neighbor. I always had my suspicions about him, and looking now at his shrubs, those suspicions have been confirmed.

Brian

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Meanwhile......Huigens and Probstein are laughing their asses off.....

Not Brent anyhow. No effing way. This is very serious business.

[JeremyW]

If I were Brent, I wouldn't be laughing. PSA must hate that guy by now.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by JeremyW

If I were Brent, I wouldn't be laughing. PSA must hate that guy by now.

He has problems on several fronts I would imagine.

[swarmee]

Solvency may be one of them. A consignment business can't last long if they're taking returns but can't get reimbursed by the submitter.

[JollyElm]

Another Moser consignment at PWCC...

2119460d95f2bdd56c2aaed6bb8163b5.jpg

[70ToppsFanatic]

PSA President Steve Sloan has released the following statement on the PSA forum:


PSA is aware of recent hobby message board activity and is conducting its own investigation into the matter.

We take consumer protection seriously, as evidenced by the thousands of altered and counterfeit cards that we reject each year, our on-going investments in grading and holder technology, and long track record of working with law enforcement to eliminate fraud from the hobby.

PSA processes more than two million cards each year and will not let isolated acts from a few dishonest actors deter consumer confidence in our brand. We will act against anyone who violates PSA’s Terms & Conditions by knowingly submitting altered cards for authentication and grading. While our actions will be conducted privately, please know that the impact will be felt by those attempting to mislead collectors for personal profit.

As with any financial transaction, if you are unsatisfied with your purchase, contact the seller to initiate a refund request. If the seller is unknown, you may send the card to PSA for review under our Financial Guarantee of Grade and Authenticity.

PSA is well-versed in combating fraud and we have addressed these issues in a professional and direct way for nearly thirty years. After all these years, our hobby is stronger than ever. Rest assured that PSA will not let the actions of a few have any lingering impact on the hobby or the PSA brand.

Steve Sloan
PSA President

[irv]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

Can you please send me a link or find out who did this beautiful card. I would like to have them printed as real cards and handed out at the National at my expense. Thanks

I either got it from the Facebook Vintage card forum or the 52 Topps forum if you are on FB?

I am unsure, if I copy and paste the links, if they'll show up or not without being logged in?

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Not Brent anyhow. No effing way. This is very serious business.

I hope you're right Peter, but I will not hold my breath....

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

That Moser fellow looks a lot like my neighbor. I always had my suspicions about him, and looking now at his shrubs, those suspicions have been confirmed.

Brian

Brian,

Is it also a very scarce BLANK back version?

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Brian,

Is it also a very scarce BLANK back version?

oh, there's a back my handsome friend! Don't worry about that

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

That Moser fellow looks a lot like my neighbor. I always had my suspicions about him, and looking now at his shrubs, those suspicions have been confirmed.

Brian

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Brian,

Is it also a very scarce BLANK back version?

I'm not sure, because I cannot see into my neighbor's back yard. My guess, however, is that the shrubbery back there is also expertly trimmed.

Brian

[Peter_Spaeth]

Another Look N See with 45 45 centering
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2545

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Another Look N See with 45 45 centering
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2545

Look N Snip

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Look N Snip

Look ma no borders.

[homerunhitter]

I wonder if this will open a can of worms for their autograph authentication side as well?

What’s probsteins role in all of this?

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by homerunhitter

I wonder if this will open a can of worms for their autograph authentication side as well?

What’s probsteins role in all of this?

PSA does not certify their autograph opinions under the grade guarantee.
Probstein hasn't really been linked yet, nor deserves to be, because the vast majority of cards are being passed through PWCC or SSI.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by swarmee

PSA does not certify their autograph opinions under the grade guarantee

Nor does SGC since forgery is a federal offense they advise to contact the fbi!

[Bored5000]

Here is the response from PWCC that I received about a Moser card I purchased that was probably cleaned but not altered:

"Thank you or reaching out to us about this card. At this time we are working to address those cards which have been trimmed, recolored, have corners built up, etc. The card you purchased is not obviously altered and we don’t have enough evidence to determine yet that it is. Please be patient while we work through the clearly altered cards; if there are any issues with any of your past purchases we promise we will get to you soon. Thank you for your assistance on this.

​
Thank you!

Betsy Huigens
PWCC Marketplace"

[swarmee]

Was the card just less dirty, or were stains removed? Did the image lose clarity because of the soaking?
If it was one of those 1951 Bowmans with previous wax stains, I would say those were very likely chemically cleaned.
However, since you first tried to get made whole by PWCC, you should now go to PSA.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Was the card just less dirty, or were stains removed? Did the image lose clarity because of the soaking?
If it was one of those 1951 Bowmans with previous wax stains, I would say those were very likely chemically cleaned.
However, since you first tried to get made whole by PWCC, you should now go to PSA.

The card is a 1900 Cope's Golf Card of Old Tom Morris. The card was previously purchased by Gary Moser and was apparently in PSA 2 slab before I bought it in a PSA 4 slab.

There are before and after photos in posts 79 and 82 of the linked thread.

http://net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=269583&page=2

[swarmee]

Going from a 2 to a 4 wouldn't likely just be from light cleaning. I'm guessing there was also a crease pressed out. The before card wouldn't have gotten a 2 just from light staining, IMO.

[MULLINS5]

That card is altered.

A few hundred and they won't return it. Sad.

Betsy probably wrote that email from her 1.5 million dollar home.

ANY card Moser had his hands on should be eligible for a refund.

ANY card PWCC sold is suspect and should be eligible for a return.

Sorry this happened to you.

[BengoughingForAwhile]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

Here is the response from PWCC that I received about a Moser card I purchased that was probably cleaned but not altered:

"Thank you or reaching out to us about this card. At this time we are working to address those cards which have been trimmed, recolored, have corners built up, etc. The card you purchased is not obviously altered and we don’t have enough evidence to determine yet that it is. Please be patient while we work through the clearly altered cards; if there are any issues with any of your past purchases we promise we will get to you soon. Thank you for your assistance on this.

​
Thank you!

Betsy Huigens
PWCC Marketplace"

"Please be patient while we work through the clearly altered cards."
??? I thought you were releasing a list of ALL cards involving Gary Moser so that the present owners can determine if their cards have been altered???

[swarmee]

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...90614&page=105
Just this page alone from yesterday:
T206 Piedmont Nap Lajoie from PSA 2 to 4
1954 Bowman Mantle from PSA 4 to 6
1948 Leaf #1 Joe DiMaggio PSA 6 to PSA 7
1954 Topps Al Kaline RC #201 from PSA 6 to 7
1969 Topps Mickey Mantle #500 from BVG 5.5 to PSA 8
1933 Goudey #53 Babe Ruth BVG 2.5 to SGC 3
1952 Topps Look 'N See Babe Ruth #15 PSA 6 to 8
1914 Cracker Jack Ray Fisher #102 PSA 2 to 3
1914 Cracker Jack Josh Devore #47 PSA 1 to 3
1909 E95 Philadelphia Caramel Ty Cobb PSA 3 to 5
1914 Cracker Jack Nap Lajoie #66 PSA 2 to 2: still gained $664
1952 Bowman Stan Musial #196 PSA 9 to 10: Value gain of $25,300.03

[BengoughingForAwhile]

Originally Posted by AddieJoss

I was told by Brent, that list is coming in the near future.

Cory Weiser

Is the near future here yet?
How long does it take to print a list of cards connected to Gary Moser?

[swarmee]

Still no word from PSA or PWCC on which law enforcement agency(ies) they claim to be working with.

[Republicaninmass]

"1952 Bowman Stan Musial #196 PSA 9 to 10: Value gain of $25,300.03"

Ouch, seem to remember someone posting about buying this card.