Hey, pennant guys

[perezfan]

The distance between the two sets of tassels and the raised velvet graphics are the two biggest tipoffs that it's a Mitchell and Ness. The graphics should be painted/screened on, and not soft to the touch. The paint should show some evidence of cracking, rippling, puckering or other general effects of age.

Other factors become more apparent when you touch it / have it in your hands... the style of stitching (where the spine is applied) the limp composition of the felt, and the design itself, among other things.

When you've seen enough of these M&N Pennants, you know immediately. Still, some inevitably make it into Catalog Auctions, like any other decent reproduction (Ad Signs, Lemon Peel Balls, Autographs, Reprint Cards, etc.)

[perezfan]

I suppose it's cool that people can own a Seals Pennant for a fraction of the "vintage cost"... But I still wish they'd stop making these near-exact copies of the originals. Or they could simply print their company logo on the reverse side.

The way they are currently sold is with a paper hang-tag that ebay sellers "conveniently" like to tear off... leaving no evidence that these are repros. Here is the way that Seals Pennant was originally packaged...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yankees-CLAS...cAAOSwfpVZInYz

And here's one that actually snuck into the last Huggins & Scott (before they removed it...)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MITCHELL-NES...8AAOSwqJRZpCg0

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by perezfan

I suppose it's cool that people can own a Seals Pennant for a fraction of the "vintage cost"... But I still wish they'd stop making these near-exact copies of the originals. Or they could simply print their company logo on the reverse side.

The way they are currently sold is with a paper hang-tag that ebay sellers "conveniently" like to tear off... leaving no evidence that these are repros. Here is the way that Seals Pennant was originally packaged...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yankees-CLAS...cAAOSwfpVZInYz

And here's one that actually snuck into the last Huggins & Scott (before they removed it...)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MITCHELL-NES...8AAOSwqJRZpCg0

I'm with you Mark. It's really annoying. Mitchell & Ness put their label on their jerseys, why not their pennants? I'll never buy anything of theirs for this reason and always include '-Ness" in my eBay searches.

Just checked out their website and they currently don't offer any pennants. When did they produce these? Did they only do baseball?

[Duluth Eskimo]

Mark,
That White Sox one is one of about 3 that I see regularly trying to be passed off for original. That one seems to be the lest obvious or so people think. I'm sure you see the same as me.

[bocca001]

Thanks, Mark. Based on those other two, it looks like Mitchell and Ness for sure. That was what I was looking for.

I have seen "raised felt" (or something like it) on vintage college pennants (see the Alabama and Santa Clara pennants), but never on a baseball pennant. Although, again, I am no true expert. Does anyone have a real vintage baseball pennant with raised felt?

The Seals pennant cost me all of $15 and I suspected that it was repro all along. I think I'll add it to my son's room (see below), which I've somehow managed to fill with pennants....

[ooo-ribay]

I like those posters! ^^^^

Board member andypcl shared a picture of his real Seals pennant with me...

[yankeesjetsfan]

I love this thread. I have learned more about pennants from you guys then I ever knew.

Mike

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by bocca001

Thanks, Mark. Based on those other two, it looks like Mitchell and Ness for sure. That was what I was looking for.

I have seen "raised felt" (or something like it) on vintage college pennants (see the Alabama and Santa Clara pennants), but never on a baseball pennant. Although, again, I am no true expert. Does anyone have a real vintage baseball pennant with raised felt?

The Seals pennant cost me all of $15 and I suspected that it was repro all along. I think I'll add it to my son's room (see below), which I've somehow managed to fill with pennants....

Good buy on the Seals... sure it's a repro, but a very good one for $15.

As for the others with raised velvet.... also often called crushed velvet or "flocking" by some... Yes, it was a common practice for college pennants, especially during the 1940s-50s. Some beautiful examples have been posted in this thread (many by Matt Z.). Same process as for the rectangular College Banners posted above. But I am not aware of any Baseball examples, outside of the 4 great 3D pennants (Brooklyn, Giants, Yankees, Red Sox) which appear earlier in this thread.

I'm away from the computer, but perhaps someone can throw up a photo or two of those 3-D beauties. Other than those four, I believe ALL Baseball Pennants had painted/screened-on graphics.

[thetahat]

Mark, yes, the 3-D pennants have print with a felt-like texture to it, but it does crack. I have 1960s picture pennants (Orioles and Phillies) with the same type print, and also this otherwise common 60s Phillies pennant. All have felt graphics. The 3-D pennants were Collegiate and these other ones are, to the best of my knowledge, Trench.

(I have pics to send, including Yankees and Giants 3-D, but for some reason this isn't allowing me to attach them, something about a missing security token.)

[perezfan]

That's right... thanks Greg!

I have seen (and completely forgot about) those picture pennants.

Not sure I've ever seen the Phillies version, though. Would love to see a pic, if you can access it without too much trouble. Thanks!

[thetahat]

Mitchell and Ness actually started my pennant addiction. Around 1996 or so the company used to run a 50% off sale in their old Philly on Super Bowl weekend. They did it for a few years. Anyway that's where and when I bought about a dozen of their early repros. I thought they looked cool and I still had my "original" ones from going to Phillies games in the 70s and 80s as a kid. At the store they had some vintage pennants displayed on the walls, including a Phillies "Blue Jay" pennant, and I thought they looked better. Eventually, I came to want only the real ones, and then I discovered eBay.

[thetahat]

Mark, I think I have your email, will try that, and if you wish to repost (and can have better luck then me) feel free to do so!

[SAllen2556]

Picked this up this morning. Not the prettiest Tiger pennant, and I think it's faded a bit, but I haven't seen it before.

68pennant.jpg

[judgejules1]

thumbnail_IMG_7499.jpg

thumbnail_IMG_7506.jpg

[judgejules1]

thumbnail_IMG_7512.jpg

[Duluth Eskimo]

That Mays is nice. Tough pennant.

[jimtigers65]

Originally Posted by SAllen2556

Picked this up this morning. Not the prettiest Tiger pennant, and I think it's faded a bit, but I haven't seen it before.

Attachment 287326

Nice! Where did you find it at?

[jsage]

Brian -
Very nice Mays Pennant.
I have placed a Willie Mays Pennant that you may be interested in.
It will be in the upcoming Goldin October Legends Auction.
Jerry sage

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by jsage

Brian -
Very nice Mays Pennant.
I have placed a Willie Mays Pennant that you may be interested in.
It will be in the upcoming Goldin October Legends Auction.
Jerry sage

I might be interested too!....if I hit the lottery between now and the auction.

[Duluth Eskimo]

Tremendous stuff as always Jerry. For those interested, Jerry's stuff is in great condition and this pennant too is extremely rare in any condition. Good luck in the auction.

[yankeesjetsfan]

Some real nice NY Giants/Willie Mays pennants!

Mike

[Flkrsn5]

New to the boards...was wondering if anyone could help me identify the year and authenticity of a few pennant pick ups I've recently made. I've checked around for sites and was told this is the place to go to get answers. Please PM me if you're able to help. Thanks in advance!

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Flkrsn5

New to the boards...was wondering if anyone could help me identify the year and authenticity of a few pennant pick ups I've recently made. I've checked around for sites and was told this is the place to go to get answers. Please PM me if you're able to help. Thanks in advance!

If you are able to post pics (it's easy on this site), you will have no shortage of informed opinions.

Welcome!

[Fballguy]

Don't you hate it when you've been watching an auction for a few days, hoping to get an item for a good price...then suddenly it disappears from your watch list because the auction was ended early and you discover somebody contacted the seller with an offer less than you were willing to pay...and the seller accepted!

Hate when that happens...and yes I may have even been guilty of it once (or thrice). So you win some and you lose some I guess...

Anyway...Anyone here want to declare victory on this?

http://r.ebay.com/neDuXq

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Don't you hate it when you've been watching an auction for a few days, hoping to get an item for a good price...then suddenly it disappears from your watch list because the auction was ended early and you discover somebody contacted the seller with an offer less than you were willing to pay...and the seller accepted!

Hate when that happens...and yes I may have even been guilty of it once (or thrice). So you win some and you lose some I guess...

Anyway...Anyone here want to declare victory on this?

http://r.ebay.com/neDuXq

That's the worst . It wasn't me....what would I want with a Lions football pennant?

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

That's the worst . It wasn't me....what would I want with a Lions football pennant?

Not even the most die hard baseball collector can resist the pull of an extremely rare Detroit Lions pennant!!!

Or is it just me?

Rob

[islesnut]

My stance on this is if you really want a pennant or any item that's listed, just message the seller and make an offer. I can't tell you how many times I've done this and it's worked with the seller ending it early. Sometimes it doesn't, but it's worth a try. Anytime I see a rare item I want, I ALWAYS message the seller to try and end it early.

[ooo-ribay]

The all blue on white came today. I already had the red and blue on white. 1962.

[yankeesjetsfan]

gorgeous piece Rob!

Mike

[Flkrsn5]

Here are the photos. (Please excuse the ugly yellow walls lol) Again, any help you can give me would be extremely helpful.

I am skeptical in regards to how authentic this Rangers pennant is as it is in pretty amazing condition and I've yet to see it printed on red felt.

IMG_0950

I just received this in the mail today. Couldn't believe how great the condition was and spent enough on it. I love it, which is why I took a chance on it, I'm just hoping it's not a repo. I'm really wondering the year on it...1960s/70s I'm assuming.

IMG_0952

And finally, my pride and joy. I absolutely love the aging of this pennant (I know, I know). I saw a similar one before this one and missed out on it so I had to have it once it surfaced. The seller said he believed it was 1930s/40s.

IMG_0951

I'm new to the pennant game and I actually have enjoyed snagging some vintage of my favorite teams. I am preparing to get the framed for the man cave one day, until then they will hang in my infant son's room lol.

[yankeesjetsfan]

Great collection you have so far. I am new to the pennant game myself. I can tell you the guys here are awesome! so knowledgeable and very good guys to talk with. A lot of knowledgeable guys here. Ask a question and chances are someone will know the answer.

Have fun here, I know I do.

Mike

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Flkrsn5

Here are the photos. (Please excuse the ugly yellow walls lol) Again, any help you can give me would be extremely helpful.

I am skeptical in regards to how authentic this Rangers pennant is as it is in pretty amazing condition and I've yet to see it printed on red felt.

IMG_0950

I just received this in the mail today. Couldn't believe how great the condition was and spent enough on it. I love it, which is why I took a chance on it, I'm just hoping it's not a repo. I'm really wondering the year on it...1960s/70s I'm assuming.

IMG_0952

And finally, my pride and joy. I absolutely love the aging of this pennant (I know, I know). I saw a similar one before this one and missed out on it so I had to have it once it surfaced. The seller said he believed it was 1930s/40s.

IMG_0951

I'm new to the pennant game and I actually have enjoyed snagging some vintage of my favorite teams. I am preparing to get the framed for the man cave one day, until then they will hang in my infant son's room lol.

I have no reason to think any of those are not legit. MLB logo on the Rangers pennant would date it 1969 or newer. Not sure about the NFL logo but I think the time frame was similar.

I'm a Buckeye myself, but I can't confirm that as 30s/40s.

[Duluth Eskimo]

All three of your pennants are authentic. The Rangers is an early 70's design and a popular version of pennants right before they went to the "white" version for almost all teams.

Your Cowboys pennant is an early to mid 60's version. They also made this in a 3/4 size version, but the full size is the most popular.

The Ohio State pennant is a common style for the 30-40's in college sports, particularly football. Any early versions from most schools that show any reference to football are much scarcer.

All three a very nice pennants and in very nice shape. Good pick ups

[Flkrsn5]

Great news! Ya'll are awesome...thank you for the info on these. I'm really looking forward to getting at least the Ohio State and Cowboys pennants framed and picking up others. My next quest will be for a Columbus Senators or Red Legs pennant although I've yet to find any.

[ooo-ribay]

This guy, from a few pages back, is now in my hands.

Thanks, Brian!

[perezfan]

Great pickup Rob...

That's a beauty!

[seattlerainiers]

Full sized, probably 1930s. Only one I've seen.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by seattlerainiers

Full sized, probably 1930s. Only one I've seen.

Nice! Do you think it ever had a "spine"?

[kid4hof03]

I picked this one up last week

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Nice! Do you think it ever had a "spine"?

By the vintage pinhole marks, most likely not. I don't really collect or buy / sell PCL, but that is a really tough pennant. Very nice pick up. I have a few Mpls Millers pennants and they are tough. Anything pre 50's minor league is really tough.

[yankeesjetsfan]

Great pick ups guys.

Mike

[thetahat]

Won this old Senators pennant, first one I have in this series of pennants, i.e the ones with the league and B.B.C. initials. Could this be the oldest series? I guess we'd have to define series as pennants made for many or all teams in the same style, clearly by the same manufacturer.

In this style, I have seen: Red Sox, Phillies (Dooin's Daisies), Cubs (really beautiful), Giants, Senators. Am I missing any?

I think they might be predated by those tackle-twill pennants w/ leather logo, presumably because they possibly pre-date silk screening. I've seen Cubs, White Sox, Red Sox, Tigers (tiger head) in this style ....

[ooo-ribay]

Man, Greg, that is a beautiful pennant! The blue is amazing. Is it oversized?

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Won this old Senators pennant, first one I have in this series of pennants, i.e the ones with the league and B.B.C. initials. Could this be the oldest series? I guess we'd have to define series as pennants made for many or all teams in the same style, clearly by the same manufacturer.

In this style, I have seen: Red Sox, Phillies (Dooin's Daisies), Cubs (really beautiful), Giants, Senators. Am I missing any?

I think they might be predated by those tackle-twill pennants w/ leather logo, presumably because they possibly pre-date silk screening. I've seen Cubs, White Sox, Red Sox, Tigers (tiger head) in this style ....

Yes, it is indeed oversized.

I was the high under-bidder, but am thrilled for Greg in this case. I would have to agree that the ones with the leather applique are a bit earlier. But this series is a close second.

I have the Giants version, and used to have the Red Sox. Our friend Mike (RIP) had the Cubs, which is perhaps the most magnificent of the bunch, and the one that he considered his "crowning jewel".

Wonderful acquisition!

[thetahat]

Rob, yes it is 34 inches ... thanks Guys, thanks Mark for the info. Still haven't seen any oversized Cardinals or Browns pennants from same era, very weird!

[seattlerainiers]

Here's some PCL and Pioneer League mini pennants from the 1940s/50s. They are about 7 inches long. I've only come across one example of each of these in my travels.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by seattlerainiers

Here's some PCL and Pioneer League mini pennants from the 1940s/50s. They are about 7 inches long. I've only come across one example of each of these in my travels.

The batter on the Twin Falls pennant is nearly identical to this guy, seen on a variety of early SF Giants pennants.

[yankeesjetsfan]

Sweet Giants Pennant Rob. Also love those PCL pennants.

Mike

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

I apologize for the rookie pennant questions, but I am thinking about buying my 1st vintage pennant, and I assumed that I would store it in a 12x30 pennant top loader like one of these: ebay #302463114901. So, for you guys who use these, do you just put your pennant straight in or do you use a sleeve? And what do you do when the pennant measures 11.5X28 but has tassels that would make it longer than 30?? How do you go about displaying/storing?? I think I am wanting to stand it up or lay it down in a display with photographs and cards and later on programs. Probably not on the wall. Thanks.

[Flkrsn5]

Originally Posted by vintagebaseballcardguy

I apologize for the rookie pennant questions, but I am thinking about buying my 1st vintage pennant, and I assumed that I would store it in a 12x30 pennant top loader like one of these: ebay #302463114901. So, for you guys who use these, do you just put your pennant straight in or do you use a sleeve? And what do you do when the pennant measures 11.5X28 but has tassels that would make it longer than 30?? How do you go about displaying/storing?? I think I am wanting to stand it up or lay it down in a display with photographs and cards and later on programs. Probably not on the wall. Thanks.

One thing I plan on doing when i get the time is building a coffee table shadow box with faux grass on the inside bottom of the table for all of my favorite items (auto balls, cards, memorabilia, etc. I'm sure you could find one and add the faux grass if you wanted to. Just a suggestion.