NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-26-2003, 03:30 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay Fiasco- please read

Posted By: TBob

Last night I purchased a very difficult tobacco card on ebay from a regional set by offering the seller what I felt was a fair price, especially based on the condition of the card and back writing. No sooner had he ended the auction early, very satisfied with the sum, then he started getting emails telling him that he was going to be thrown off ebay for ending the auction early, that it was a violation of ebay rules and he would be reported to safe harbor. We all know what a crock of horse manure that is, sellers end auctions early all the time. I have benefited from it in the past and been crushed by it before, but I never stooped so low as to threaten a seller who did it. It worked, the card is back on ebay. I sincerely hope no one on this board was involved, but believe me, I'll find out. I also hope he took my advice and added those names to his blocked bidders list, but he probably won't.
As a guy who collects this set as a collector and who doesn't care that much about condition regarding this set, I just wanted to say thanks very much to the a##$%^$s who did this. If you are reading this on the board, shame on you. You know better and you lied to intimidate someone for your own personal gain. I know you'll sleep like a baby tonight but you should be ashamed of yourself.

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-26-2003, 03:41 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay Fiasco- please read

Posted By: Brian Weisner


Hi TBob,
Which card are we talking about? Please provide a link. I don't think anyone on this board would stoop that low, but you never know. I would bet that most collectors on the board have asked sellers to end auctions early, I know I have. Hopefully you'll win the card anyway. Later Brian

Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-26-2003, 10:52 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay Fiasco- please read

Posted By: TBob

Although mislabeled as a 1911 Obak, it was a 1910 Obak Series 150 card.
Brian- I certainly hope you are right that no one would stoop that low who is on this board. I can give you the names of two Obak collectors who it absolutely is NOT, that is Doug Klein "dugknel" (I always misspell that) on ebay who actually bid on the card and didn't have a problem with its early ending and Brian Parker, a super guy who collected Obaks but now has his set completed. I would also find it very hard to believe one of the people was Jim Hatcher who is another nice guy I have met on line. One thing about Obak collectors, they are the nicest in the hobby. That said, I am betting the jerks were either dealers or guys looking to flip a difficult card for profit and could care less about adding it to their collection.
Brian- I realize my response is a tad cryptic but I'd like to not provide a link as I still want the card and don't want to encourage bidding competition, although I am sure it will now exist. Also I didn't want to name names without proof, just conjecture. Hopefully when the auction ends, the seller will provide me with those names and I'll see to it that in the future they will have plenty of extra bidding on cards they want. Sorry for the vindictiveness, I just hate liars and people who try to intimidate the unwary and unknowing, like the seller (see previous post)
Bob.

Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-27-2003, 08:50 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay Fiasco- please read

Posted By: Brian Weisner


Thanks Bob
I had a few cards bookmarked that I don't normally bid on, and I wanted to make sure I wasn't stepping on your toes. Luckily I'm not interested in Obaks, so everything is cool. Good luck Brian

Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-27-2003, 09:57 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay Fiasco- please read

Posted By: Steve Tuttle

To play devil's advocate, I'd be pretty unhappy if I was thinking about bidding on that card and the seller closed it early. Aren't sellers obligated to finish out the announced time frame--if not legally then at least morally? There are a lot of reasons I might not bid on a card right away and if the seller announced the sale would be over on a given day, I'd expect him to hold to that. I'd complain too if it was closed early. Though for the record I didn't bid on this one.

Steve

Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-27-2003, 11:24 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay Fiasco- please read

Posted By: Mike Ward

Seeing the number of threads with the "I'm gonna get them" theme, it wouldn't surprise me if it was one of your own. I think there are too many threads about reprints & corrupt sellers, excessive postage, shill bidding, etc. which cuts into productive and interesting dialog here. Now don't say I'm condoning any of the above, it's just that interest in this site wanes when the first three threads are on contacting e-bay, fake cards, & cut-out scraps. It's getting old. We get the point, ebay is loaded with dirt-balls and that doesn't look like it's going to end any time soon. Especially given the number of times Board members have already contacted ebay. Let's get back to collecting.

Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-27-2003, 11:53 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay Fiasco- please read

Posted By: Mrc32

I have to disagree with your whole premise and think it is down right wrong for a seller to end an auction early.

I view it as a contract to sell to the highest bidder as soon as an item is posted on ebay. Ebay is a place for auctions, not a place to see if you can get a card for a cheaper price than what the auction may bring.

It is unethical in my view to send an offer to a seller in hopes that you can get an item for a cheaper price than what the market may bear(the whole time hoping that the seller is to dumb to realize what the true value is).

My 2 cents worth.

Go bid on the card you want and if you really want it bid high. That is the FAIR way to do it.

PS- I have no idea what card you are talking about or for that matter don't care.

Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-27-2003, 12:25 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay Fiasco- please read

Posted By: TBob

The seller does not contract with ebay to sell an item. This is obvious from the fact that ebay holds itself apart as having no part in any agreement to sell or buy an item on ebay. The only thing the seller does is "rent space" on ebay's webpages to display an item for sale and agree to abide by the terms of ebay's conditions. The only contract occurs when a buyer bids on an item for sale on ebay and is the highest bidder and the reserve (if any) is met. Then there is a contract between buyer and seller. The OTHER way a contract is created is if a prospective bidder/buyer makes an offer to a seller and the seller agrees to accept that tendered offer. THAT is also a contract. I could have held the seller to the contract, but didn't.
What I object to is the emailing of lies that ebay forbids a seller from ending an auction early and cancelling the auction sales. This is pure horess#$% and everyone here knows it. Regardless of how you feel about ending auctions early, and I don't like the idea either, ebay SPECIFICALLY PERMITS it and even has a web site link to help a seller do it and instructions on how to do it.
Regardless of your views on if it is "morally" right or wrong to do it, it is "legally" permissible. have I lost cards because they were sold out from under me? All the time. Do I like it? No. Have I come to understand that it is part of the ebay game? Yes.
The emailing of lies in an attempt to intimidate, embarrass, threaten or coerce an ebay member is something else. It worked for the cretins this time so I guess they are happy.

Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-27-2003, 12:32 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay Fiasco- please read

Posted By: TBob

It is unethical in my view to send an offer to a seller in hopes that you can get an item for a cheaper price than what the market may bear(the whole time hoping that the seller is to dumb to realize what the true value is).>

How do you know the submitted offer did not exceed the SCD value unless you know what the card is and in fact were one of those who emailed the seller? In my opinion the offer which was made to the seller could very well exceed what the card eventually sells for. You are making statements without any clue and throwing words around like "unethical," which are irresponsible and based on conjecture. You don't know me, you don't know that I have had 4500 transactions on ebay and a 100% rating selling and buying.
The whole point in making the offer was to make a fair offer and obtain a card which a buyer might or might not be able to obtain, given the sniping services prevalent today. I also think that your comment about the "fair" way to do things by just always paying as much as you can for an item and never trying to get a bargain is pure, unadulterated, crap.

Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-27-2003, 01:24 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay Fiasco- please read

Posted By: Mrc32

Your right I don't know you. And I don't know your history.

But you put a post on this board for people to respond to...but people can only respond to things you put in your post- like what the card is or how many transactions etc. (actually I could care less).

I think it is wrong to end an auction early as it screws over others who have bid or are planning to bid on the card.

Tbob- if you don't want opinions contrary to your view then maybe you should email your gripes to your pals and not post them in a public forum where you will no doubt get views from people who disagree with you. Clearly you can't take it.

My 2 cents worth

Michael

Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-27-2003, 01:29 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay Fiasco- please read

Posted By: Mrc32

One more thing-- how do these two things jive?

Whats the difference- you wrote both of these:

"Hopefully when the auction ends, the seller will provide me with those names and I'll see to it that in the future they will have plenty of extra bidding on cards they want."

"The emailing of lies in an attempt to intimidate, embarrass, threaten or coerce an ebay member is something else. It worked for the cretins this time so I guess they are happy."

Just realize we are talking about little pieces of cardboard...not a kidney transplant. Take a few deep breaths.

Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-27-2003, 01:32 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay Fiasco- please read

Posted By: TBob

what I can't take is people who don't know me judging me, my motives and my actions.
All I was trying to get across in my original post was how cowardly and deceitful it was for someone to lie, knowing better, to an unsuspecting ebay member who was selling a card and threatening to have him reported and booted off ebay for ending an auction early.
That's all I said. If you want to flame me for that, go ahead.

Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-27-2003, 01:34 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay Fiasco- please read

Posted By: Mrc32

I'm not looking to flame you. I just disagree with your point about it being ok to end auctions early. You are the one that started flaming....

I'm done as I think I have made my point.

Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-27-2003, 02:48 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay Fiasco- please read

Posted By: TBob


>I just disagree with your point about it being ok to end auctions early.>

The bottom line is ebay permits it, Michael. Ebay permits bid retractions and permits ending auctions early. It isn't a question of being unethical. I never said I LIKED the practice, I said that 1) ebay permits it 2) a bunch of morons lied to a seller and told him ebay didn't permit it 3) the idiots threatened to have him booted from ebay 4) he was coerced out of a contracted sale with a buyer because of these lies.
THAT is the bottom line. If ebay wants to say you can't end auctions early, I am all for it. Right now, they don't.
If you are condemning buyers for trying to end auctions early and calling them unethical, you are condemning 95% of the collectors who post here. I think you are lucky most of the regular posters here are in Atlantic City and can't see your posts.

Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-27-2003, 03:41 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay Fiasco- please read

Posted By: Jeff O

...another thread that I didn't want to post on, but feel compelled to as a "regular".

First let me say I have had a number of dealings with TBob and I have always found him to be a stand up guy, both as a buyer and a seller. What I am writing is in no way a slam on him or the seller.

eBay lists a number of reasons for which it is acceptable to end an auction early. I can't be sure if this matches any of those reasons. However, what bothers me is when a seller cancels his auction to sell an item "offline" without being honest enough to pay eBay it's fair share. Usually what happens is that the seller cancels all of the bids and closes the auction. eBay gets zilch - maybe a listing fee of a quarter, and the seller gets to keep 100% of the sale price. How is that fair to eBay? Cancelling an auction to circumvent eBay's fees is just selfish.

That being said, that is an ethical issue for the seller to deal with, not the buyer. The buyer has simply made an offer... nothing more.

Have I emailed sellers and bought stuff offline? Yup. Have I ended auctions early? Only once... a Mickey Mantle signed ball. The buyer actually called me about it he wanted it so bad. There were no bids at the time. I told him I felt his offer was fair, and that I would put up a BIN for that amount immediately... he just needed to be the one to pull the trigger on the item. Why did I do it this way? So that eBay could get the commission which I felt they were rightfully entitled to.

Again, I'm not attacking anyone's ethics here... just stating an opinion. I feel when it comes to ending an auction early the seller needs to consider what is fair, primarily to eBay, but also to the other bidders if any.

As for the emails that the seller allegedly received... I don't know enough about what was or was not said to form a clear opinion. They are certainly within their rights to report him if they feel they were wronged, but I can't condone any threats which may or may not have been made... especially threats of retribution from eBay which may not be accurate.

Just my 2 cents...

Jeff O

Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-27-2003, 04:25 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay Fiasco- please read

Posted By: Mrc32

<<If you are condemning buyers for trying to end auctions early and calling them unethical, you are condemning 95% of the collectors who post here. I think you are lucky most of the regular posters here are in Atlantic City and can't see your posts. >>

I don't care if most(i think you are overestimating) of the posters on this board do it...I still think it is wrong.

And if all those people in Atlantic city want to post that they disagree and think it is fine to ask someone to end an auction early, that is fine by me....I still think its wrong.

Sorry.

Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-27-2003, 06:40 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay Fiasco- please read

Posted By: Brian Weisner


Hi Michael,
I don't want to get in the way of your pissing contest with TBOB, but he has done nothing unethical or against Ebay rules. Personally, I won't end any of my auctions early for any reason, but that's my choice not a rule. I don't really understand why you are siding with people who have broken the rules by lying to a seller to scare him into breaking a sales contract. Tbob is 100% right on this issue and you are fighting a losing battle. By the way, my sixth grade teacher taught me that life wasn't fair along time ago, best you understand that by now.
Be well Brian

Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-29-2003, 11:58 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay Fiasco- please read

Posted By: Dan Mckee

Hi Bob, You are the best, I enjoy knowing you and dealing with you. I know EXACTLY how you feel! I have had that happen to me! Now I do what someone did to you and only ask them to consider putting it back up. I have never threatened anyone like your guy did though it is against ebat policy to shut down an auction and sell offline to someone that contacted the seller through ebay or saw the item on ebay. It is only against ebay policy because ebay gets cut out of the fees, period. So I am sorry to hear you missed out and it has happened to me before and by a board memeber who I will not mention mainly because I see both sides. I do not collect Obaks but I think I have a few in my type set that you may need so if you email me, I will check and just swap you for 1 of your doubles if you need mine. Dan.

Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07-29-2003, 12:17 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay Fiasco- please read

Posted By: leon

I have had auctions ended for me early before. Do I agree with it? No. I have never ended an auction early, that I remember, but if no bids were on it I would probably do it. The only reason I even ask sellers to do it is it has happened to me numerous times and I got tired of getting beat to the punch. It happened to me about a week ago...saw a card I was going to snipe heavy on....then, with numerous bids and the reserve met, the seller ( a valued board member) closed the auction early.......that sucked......later

Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-29-2003, 12:37 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay Fiasco- please read

Posted By: Hankron

From a purely selfish standpoint, it's not good business for the seller to end auctions early if they have bids (valid to end if no one has bothered to bid). If a seller ends early one too many bid upon auctions, potential bidders are going to start saying "It's not worth the trouble." This is the last thing a seller wants.

Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 07-29-2003, 01:04 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay Fiasco- please read

Posted By: runscott

But as a buyer, I have asked sellers to give me a price and add a BIN; makes it a contract, keeps things okay with ebay, and keeps the seller from changing his/her mind when they get better offers or threats from the disappointed competition.

But emailing a seller with threats is pathetic.

Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 07-29-2003, 01:52 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay Fiasco- please read

Posted By: Dan Mckee

You have never ended an auction early? As a seller maybe but you have closed them down early, George C Miller tin. Take care. Dan

Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 07-29-2003, 03:27 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay Fiasco- please read

Posted By: leon

Reading 101....it's a great thing.....how bout reading my first line in my post.......take care

Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 07-29-2003, 04:18 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay Fiasco- please read

Posted By: DAN

ok, here we go! big FIGHT, big FIGHT! haha!, ok what can I say, I continue to display my superior intellect over the board members!

Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 07-30-2003, 11:59 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay Fiasco- please read

Posted By: BcD

You are on the computer too much!


lol

Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Did you read this? Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 1 01-09-2009 11:06 AM
Did you buy a W517 from eBay seller "run4urdreams" in June? If so, please read Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 3 07-22-2007 01:54 PM
Another dangerous scam on ebay- please read Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 5 06-27-2005 08:18 AM
Fraudulent Ebay User ID Emails!! (Please Read) Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 8 10-31-2002 10:23 PM
Please read this eBay description..... Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 8 06-29-2002 09:04 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:27 AM.


ebay GSB