T209 What am I?

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Posted By: scott brockelman

I have had the following items for many years and have conversed with others on their importance/relevance to the T209 Contentnea set. What I have are 2 4 player pieces on very heavy cardboard stock each measuring approx. 8 1/2" x 3 1/2". I believe they are cut from an advertising piece, as there is just the slightest bit of block lettering on the bottom of onr of them. Further I believe these to depict several players that were intended for the "second" series or color T209's that was never issued. We instantly recognize Cooper and Hoffman from the series 1 color set. The others are also line drawings as used in the color set and not actual photos like the Black and White series. The players on the 1st strip are ????(can't make out the writing), Hoffman, Doak and Cooper. The second strip has Kite, Brooks, Tidyman(sic) & Orth(which is the same pose used in the T206 set.

These were both postally used, YEP as postcard, mailed from Wilmington, NC to an Andrews family in Ceracues(yes that how they spelled it!) NY from Fred Kellum? hard to make out the penciled return.

Anyone have any thoughts??








Scott

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Posted By: Anonymous

Yea! I have some thoughts--I would like to buy those pieces.

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Posted By: scott brockelman

but i OUTBID them

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Posted By: barrysloate

Scott- those two pieces are pretty amazing. The one was postally used but it was not in fact a postcard, not the proper proportions. I think they were some kind of printer's scrap that for some reason someone decided to mail to someone else. He didn't even put a message on the card. It was as if he was showing them off to a friend. Certainly some mysteries there.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Looking at it again I don't think it's an advertising piece because it contains cards from both T209 series plus a T206 southern leaguer. What would it be advertising? It's not even clear what set it depicts. Is the stock much thicker than a card? It looks very thick.

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Posted By: scott brockelman

Barry,

they are on very heavy stock, twice the thickness of a card, and the card are 2-3 times normal size. on the bottom of one i see PL which i think is Player, I am fairly certain this was some type of counter display cut up, and depicts the 1 and unissued 2nd color T209 series, Orth was used in the T206 the next year.

Scott

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Posted By: barrysloate

Why advertise a color set on a counter display and show it in black & white? Seems like you would be shortchanging the beauty of the issue. It could be, but seems a little odd.

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Posted By: Jeff Lowe

Early homemade postcards maybe . But how did they get the artwork for the cards ?



Jeff

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Posted By: Scott Gross

What I think we are looking at is an “Artist Sketch” sheet from early on in the t209-1 printing. A company artist was given some black and white photos to come up with some ideas. Maybe only the two recognizable ones made the final cut. I almost see the head of printing saying: “Johnson, your idea to detail the backgrond of the full length poses stinks, you're fired. We're going with portraits, but the Hoffman isn't that bad.....”

As far as Orth goes, if he made the issue, we'd just have a t209-1 and a t206 with similar images. There are some t206 and t210's with the same image (Manion comes to mind), so not totally outragious.

Oh, and GREAT items, thanks for sharing, Scott

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Posted By: scott brockelman

but keep in mind these are litho printed on cabinet card like stock, with block printing on the bottom of one that just barely shows, also these 2 do not fit together, there were more photos at one time when this was whole. I still think it was intended to show the players for the known 1st series and the never produced 2nd series.

scott

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Posted By: barrysloate

Scott- sounds plausible enough, and when you pointed out that "PL" at the bottom margin which I didn't see, it probably is a sign that was cut down and only the cards were saved.

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Posted By: scott brockelman

Barry, There is another word or words before "PL" It has to start with either a capital I or T and i am guessing T because it has other letters after it. Obviously some type of text was present.

scott

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Posted By: Joann

Any particular significance to the origin being Wilmington NC (besides the obvious tie in with the minor leagues depicted)?

Was factory 12 near there, or the league offices, or anything like that? If there is some reason it was mailed from Wilmington NC it's remotely possible that it would help shed light on what they are. (BTW, were both mailed, and if not how did both wind up in the same place?)

Printer's pieces? Sales samples (like one of the possible explanations for the 69 card Herpolsheimer's set)? Was there a local photog studio that maybe took the proof pictures? An advertising center? Or maybe even the Contentnea HQ?

I know it's really grasping at straws, but if it's a 1-1 piece then maybe it was in Wilmington NC for a reason. I couldn't make out a postmark date but it looked pretty much period. If it were mailed many years later then the pieces could have travelled miles before even reaching Wil NC. But the closer the postmark date is to the issue date, the more likely that it was made in Wilmington, or at least stopped there for an important reason early in the process.

Joann

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Posted By: scott brockelman

They were both mailed from Wilmington by the same person to the same address in NY, I can find no info on either party via the 1910 census. They appear to have been mailed at the same time frame with a "registered" style cancellation and not a round date stamp:( possibly due to their thickness, again they are much larger and thicker than any postcard, but it appears that was their use.

I will continue searching for clues,neither the mailer or recipient names appear to players or families.

Scott

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Posted By: Joe Jones

I think considering the time period that a lot of items were mailed like that. People could put a stamp on many items to ship without cardboard boxes or envelopes readily available. So I dont think it was a post card.

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Posted By: barrysloate

It definitely wasn't a postcard, and sometimes to expedite bulk mailings stamps were pre-cancelled; that is, instead of a date stamp the post office would affix the point of origin. That looks to be true in this case, but I don't think it solves any of the mystery. Probably not a registered mail postmark, though.

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Posted By: Mark

Green, green with envy......