Brown vs. black Lenox

[trdcrdkid]

Among the five T206s I got back in the late 70s and early 80s, and kept loose in boxes along with my other cards, were two with Lenox backs, Schaefer and Wiltse. I didn't know at the time how scarce they were. The other three were a Tolstoi and two Polar Bears; I never had a Piedmont or Sweet Caporal T206 until I got back into collecting in the early 90s.

I've heard about these brown Lenox T206s, but to be honest, when I've seen pictures, I've had a hard time distinguishing them from regular black Lenox T206s, including my two. REA has a brown Lenox Willis in their current auction, but I have a hard time telling from the photo that the ink is supposed to be brown as opposed to black. Maybe it's just the photo.

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/...x?itemid=33731



REA also had a brown Lenox T206 of Wiltse in last spring's auction -- the same as one of my Lenoxes, but in much better condition -- and I also have a hard time telling that it's brown ink as opposed to a variant of the usual black ink:

http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/...pring/369.html



Here is a picture of the back of my T206 Lenox of Schaefer, next to a Cycle 350 that's definitely black ink, and a Broad Leaf 350 and a Hindu that are definitely brown ink:



The contrast between the brown and black ink is actually easier to see in person, so I can see how that might be a factor in my confusion. Now here's the same picture with my other Lenox back (Wiltse) on top of the Cycle 350:



It's obviously much lighter than the other Lenox, but it's also not really the same color as the Broad Leaf and Hindu cards next to it. I wonder, though, whether it's similar to the color of the "brown" Lenoxes from the REA auctions. I guess it would be necessary to examine the cards in person to be more certain. Here are my two Lenoxes side by side:



Are there any pictures of brown Lenox T206s out there where the contrast in color with a black Lenox is more obvious?

[ullmandds]

nice stash...yours are black...brown will look "browner!"

[Pat R]

David, both of yours are definitely black. There are a few past threads on this
topic if you use the search function.

[x2drich2000]

Here's a link with a nice comparison. http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=127872

DJ

[trdcrdkid]

Thanks, everybody. My Schaefer is definitely black, and the Wiltse looks black but faded. I was just having a hard time seeing the difference from the REA cards. I did a search on the board for "brown Lenox", but so many threads came up that I didn't have time to go through them all. Sean, those scans are helpful -- as you say, the Lenox brown is darker than the Hindu or Broad Leaf browns, and tougher to distinguish from black. The 2010 thread linked by xdrich2000 is also good. The difference is probably more apparent in person.

[trdcrdkid]

You know, while I can see the difference between the brown and black Lenoxes in Sean's scans, and even more so in the picture Leon posted in that 2010 thread, it's a pretty subtle difference, one that I need to look closely to see. I assume that's why the difference wasn't even recognized in the hobby until fairly recently. Does anybody know when that difference started to be recognized? I don't remember ever hearing anything about it back in the early to mid-90s, but I see that Mark Peavey's 2001 pamphlet "The Mysteries of T206" does regognize the distinction (though without mentioning brown Old Mill).

It's not the type of thing that would prompt me to want to pay the type of premium that brown Lenoxes apparently command over black ones (assuming that I had that kind of money to spend), but to each his own. I also shake my head at the type of crazy premiums that PSA 10 cards command over PSA 9s (let alone 8s), but if people want to spend their money on that, I won't try to stop them.

[Sean]

I first heard of a Brown Lenox in 2004 (Lajoie).

[MVSNYC]

Originally Posted by trdcrdkid

You know, while I can see the difference between the brown and black Lenoxes in Sean's scans, and even more so in the picture Leon posted in that 2010 thread, it's a pretty subtle difference, one that I need to look closely to see. I assume that's why the difference wasn't even recognized in the hobby until fairly recently...

It's not the type of thing that would prompt me to want to pay the type of premium that brown Lenoxes apparently command over black ones...

+1

I never even attempted to chase Brown Lenox's...I am perfectly happy owning a few Black examples. I get that they're rarer, but IMO, the difference is too subtle to pay such a huge premium. Black Lenox is tuff enough, as it is.

[Sean]

scan0009.jpg

Sorry for the poor scan.The Brown Lenox is a dark brown, unlike the Hindu and Brown Old Mill. It is hard to distinguish from the Black Lenox, especially when the Black is a bit faded.