Frequency of T3 Turkey Red Backs

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Posted By: Patrick McMenemy

I'm curious as to just how rare certain T3 Turkey Red backs really are compared to other backs.

I have a very small sampling of 6 cards.

Here are my backs:

Series 1, No. 21 Red Kleinow,(1-76 back) (NO ADDRESS)

Series 1, No. 50 Chief Meyers, (1-76 back) (NO ADDRESS)

Series 2, No. 120 Gabby Street, (51-126 back)

Series 2, George Gibson, Johnny Kling, and Ira Thomas, (Turkey Red Ad back)

Per Lew Lipset, the "no address" back is quite rare.

Since 2 out of my 6 have this back, I'm curious if it really is a rare back or not.

Any feedback is appreciated.

Thanks,

Patrick

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Posted By: barrysloate

It is certainly less common than the checklist back, but it is not rare. It does command a bit of a premium, however.

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Posted By: Mark

Turkey Red backs are not that rare in general. However, with certain fronts, they are very difficult to find. NO AD backs, on the other hand, I believe ARE rare. I've spent the last year and a half putting together a set, and have looked at hundreds of Turkey Reds. I've seen lots and lots of Turkey Red backs, but only a few no ad backs available.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Mark- when you say NO AD backs I assume you mean the ones without the address on the bottom.

I think Turkey Red ad backs may be overrated a little bit in terms of scarcity, but they are desirable because they are so attractive, and because type collectors need one example.

So Mark, if a Turkey Red back is not commonly seen with a particular front, that will bring a huge premium? Has anyone ever made a checklist of the most difficult front/back combinations?

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Posted By: Mark

Barry,

I'm not an expert on this. Whenever I have a Turkey Red question, I go to Craig or Keith. They know a lot more than I do.

However, I do know that certain cards in the second series are almost always found with one back or the other. FOr example, Eddie Collins, Walter Johnson and Harry Lord are almost always found with the Turkey Red back. It is unusual to find any of them with a checklist back. On the other hand, Chief Bender, Ed Lennox and Admiral Schlei are almost always found with a checklist back, and almost never a Turkey red back. You can verify this, to some degree, I am told, by checking the PSA population reports. When I first heard this info, I started watching as these cards came up in auctions. It almost always holds up.

No, these cards do not bring any great premium, for two reasons. First, most people don't know about it, and secondly, it probably wouldn't matter much to most people, unless you are working on a master set. You may not be able to get Lennox with a checkist back, but most people wouldn't care, because they can get that back easily with a different front.

But Patrick didn't ask about value - he asked about rarity. Depending how strictly you use the word "rare", I beiieve NO ADDRESS backs are, to some degree, rare.

Mark

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Posted By: barrysloate

I have a Johnson with a checklist back. So that one is tougher, but as you say commands no real premium?

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Posted By: Mark

To most people, no premium at all. In fact, most think the Turkey Red ad back should bring a premium, and might pay more for it, even though it is much more common.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Sounds like an area of the market where a good article and checklist is needed!

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Posted By: Mark

I would like to read that article myself. Maybe a survey is in order. Do you suppose there are enough T3 collectors on the forum to make it worthwhile?

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Posted By: barrysloate

Ted Z., among others, has gathered an incredible amount of information regarding the T206 backs, all from board participants. I bet if you started a survey, you would get plenty of input.

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Posted By: ockday

Series 1 with address 27 different

Series 1 no address #44 Trying to catch him napping

Series 2 Checklist back..27 different
Series 2 Turkey Red back...13 different

So for me I it's 1 out of 28 1st series with no address.

While we're at it..

I have 12 1st series cards that list card # 76 Jack Johnson
and 15 1st series cards that stop listing at #75 O'brien

Alan