Which Auctions Allow House Bidding / Owned Items?

[glchen]

In the Memorabilia section, it was announced that Heritage Auctions allows house bidding (although they say it all house bids are placed a week before the auction ends) and auctions off its own items. To me, house bidding is much more serious. Do you know which of the other auction houses allows this? (for those of us who haven't closely read the fine print of every auction house)

[Matt]

Hunt's has disclosed that they do it as well.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Matt

Hunt's has disclosed that they do it as well.

It's different...

Hunt's has undisclosed reserves on certain lots... this is significantly different than the house bidding described by Heritage (in the Memorabilia thread).

Hunt's is not bidding with the intention of winning a lot at a "wholesale price". They are simply protecting consignors who are leary of losing money on the lots in question. These consignors are willing to see their items go unsold, as opposed to losing a large sum of money. This is why you frequently see unsold items from their Live Auctions end up in the monthly Internet/Phone Auctions.

It's identical to the hidden reserves you can opt for, when selling on ebay. As a consignor, I like this policy, and wish a few other auction houses would adopt it. As a bidder... not so much. But we all know that it is incumbent on these auction houses to appease their consignors.

[glchen]

I looked through the Auction Rules of some of the major auction houses, and here is what I saw:

REA - expressly prohibits house bidding or house owned lots
Legendary - expressly prohibits house bidding. house owned lots will be clearly noted
Goodwin - no mention of house bidding, owned lots
SCP - no mention of house bidding, owned lots
Mile High - no mention of house bidding, owned lots
Mears - house bidding is prohibited. house owned lots will be clearly marked
Imperial - house bidding is prohibited. implied that there are house owned lots
Memory Lane - no mention of house bidding, owned lots
Huggins & Scott - no mention of house bidding, owned lots

If any of this is incorrect, please let me know. Thanks, Gary

[Matt]

Originally Posted by perezfan

It's identical to the hidden reserves you can opt for, when selling on ebay. As a consignor, I like this policy, and wish a few other auction houses would adopt it. As a bidder... not so much. But we all know that it is incumbent on these auction houses to appease their consignors.

It is most certainly not. Hunt's acts as a bidder at their Live auction events. If you were bidding live at a Hunt auction, you wouldn't know if you were bidding against another person, or the house.

"Reserve bids may be executed on catalogued lots on behalf of the seller and shall be executed confidentially in a manner similar to the execution of absentee bids."

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by glchen

I looked through the Auction Rules of some of the major auction houses, and here is what I saw:


Legendary - expressly prohibits house bidding. house owned lots will be clearly noted

If any of this is incorrect, please let me know. Thanks, Gary

This is incorrect. Legendary/Mastro does not indicate all lots which they own and certainly bids the hell out of lots.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Perhaps the forthcoming (or is it extant) trade association will promulgate a uniform code of conduct.

[RichardSimon]

Will the Uniform Code of Conduct include the Robin Hood clause that gives these guys license to rob from the rich and give to themselves?
--

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Matt

It is most certainly not. Hunt's acts as a bidder at their Live auction events. If you were bidding live at a Hunt auction, you wouldn't know if you were bidding against another person, or the house.

"Reserve bids may be executed on catalogued lots on behalf of the seller and shall be executed confidentially in a manner similar to the execution of absentee bids."

How does it matter whether you are bidding against a live bidder or the house? As long as you know what you are willing to pay for a given lot, you draw the line there.

It's the same with ebay (on lots that carry reserves). You bid what you are willing to pay, and if it clears the seller's reserve, you get it. If it doesn't, you don't. The only difference between the two is that Hunts is executed in- person, and Ebay is conducted on-line.

[glchen]

Is that basically the point of shill bidding? Reaching every bidders maximum that they're willing to pay for a lot?

[calvindog]

Doug Allen reads the boards, perhaps he can chime in here.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by glchen

Is that basically the point of shill bidding? Reaching every bidders maximum that they're willing to pay for a lot?

Yes it is..... and that's also the point of setting a reserve (which is a legal practice, put in place to protect consignors).

[HRBAKER]

So I ask, why not set the minimum opening bid at the reserve (which protects the consignor) and forego the seeming illusion of an auction taking place up until that point/level/reserve is met?

[glchen]

To me, the shady part of house bidding, even in the case where it's only meant as a "reserve" is that is seems like it's trying to create the illusion of demand. If you're interested in a lot, and you see numerous bids on it, you might think the item is more highly in demand, and you may need to raise your ceiling bid. Whereas if you were the only bidder in the auction, you might start thinking of that famous quote: "the only thing rare about this item is the number of bidders for it," and therefore bid less. Again, that's why I think that to protect consignors, the house should just put a reserve. That reserve amount could be the price that the house is willing to purchase the lot from the consignor. Everything is much cleaner that way.

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by glchen

To me, the shady part of house bidding, even in the case where it's only meant as a "reserve" is that is seems like it's trying to create the illusion of demand. If you're interested in a lot, and you see numerous bids on it, you might think the item is more highly in demand, and you may need to raise your ceiling bid. Whereas if you were the only bidder in the auction, you might start thinking of that famous quote: "the only thing rare about this item is the number of bidders for it," and therefore bid less.

Well said.

[E93]

Originally Posted by glchen

To me, the shady part of house bidding, even in the case where it's only meant as a "reserve" is that is seems like it's trying to create the illusion of demand. If you're interested in a lot, and you see numerous bids on it, you might think the item is more highly in demand, and you may need to raise your ceiling bid. Whereas if you were the only bidder in the auction, you might start thinking of that famous quote: "the only thing rare about this item is the number of bidders for it," and therefore bid less. Again, that's why I think that to protect consignors, the house should just put a reserve. That reserve amount could be the price that the house is willing to purchase the lot from the consignor. Everything is much cleaner that way.

+1

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by glchen

To me, the shady part of house bidding, even in the case where it's only meant as a "reserve" is that is seems like it's trying to create the illusion of demand. If you're interested in a lot, and you see numerous bids on it, you might think the item is more highly in demand, and you may need to raise your ceiling bid. Whereas if you were the only bidder in the auction, you might start thinking of that famous quote: "the only thing rare about this item is the number of bidders for it," and therefore bid less. Again, that's why I think that to protect consignors, the house should just put a reserve. That reserve amount could be the price that the house is willing to purchase the lot from the consignor. Everything is much cleaner that way.

I don't think any auction house, whether or not it is shlling, tipping off consignors to ceiling bids, etc., wants to show its lots with NO activity throughout most of the auction.