Any chance these are ALTERED ????

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Posted By: Brian C Daniels 

wHY ELSE ARE THEY GRADED SO POORLY??

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1855754305&ssPageName=MERC01

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1855759740

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1855756668

did these come from "neverpayfullprice" or "kardz-r-us"

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Posted By: Dr.Koos

...that the first and third examples are trimmed, my Pale-face son!

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Posted By: Dr.Koos

...I've never seen such a borderless card top and bottom. If this card measures within 1/8th of an inch of catalog specs, I'd be greatly surprised. Even the 39PB Dimaggio looks like it's whacked. Am I imagining things here?? Is there some type of vertical compression taking place on these postage stamp sized scans that I've never witnessed before? I thought the Coupon cards themselves were slightly smaller than T206s LEFT to RIGHT (correct me if I'm wrong) but the one imaged in this seller's auctions looks incredibly small top to bottom. What sayeth thou, Augustus?

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Posted By: jay behrens

The 206 and 213 look short as hell, but I can't see anything wrong with the caramell card other than stains.

Jay

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Posted By: Dr.Koos

..Tinker, ALSO PSA graded!!! Auction #1855756668. Take a peek at THAT dwarf. There's barely a fringe of top border and the edge almost intrudes on the player name line!!!! Did PSA leave the word "mini" designation off the label by accident?

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Posted By: jay behrens

Tinker is the 206. no way that card is not trimmed. Also, the case on the t213 Speaker looks like it may have been cracked open. Look at the left edge near the middle.


Don't Understand what is wrong with the Evers card to get that grade

Jay

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Posted By: petecld

I agree, the Tinker and Speaker are trimmed.

I'll assume the Evers grade is due to the pinhole.

More fine examples of PSA's complete lack of ability to grade vintage cards. This is surprising thugh, I thought they only graded trimmed e-cards. Just my opinion.

Seriously, I'm not so sure the grade on the Evers is all that out of line. To me, it's a nice VG card w/o the pinhole and assuming there are no creases we can't see. In a case like this are they are da**ed either way? If they give it a "3" people will ask, "Why is it graded that high with a pin hole?" With a "1" we are asking, "Why so low, is it the pinhole?"

What does everyone think a fair grade would be for th Evers? In my eyes a pin hole has a MUCH greater impact on grade then a crease.

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Posted By: Bill Cornell

I agree: a card with a pinhole is FR at best, and more usually PR. The only more distracting flaw, I think, is writing on the front or back. I can only imagine the grades T3's would receive if either PSA or SGC got around to grading that issue, given how they were often hung on walls.

For what it's worth, I've dealt with this seller (toscata) and have only good things to say about him. Stupid grading is, of course, no reflection on the seller...

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

has the pinhole seller mentions. What's the big mystery? Ridiculous to put a grade on a trimmed card...

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Posted By: petecld

Julie, I think you might be missing the point of the posts. I too have dealt with (toscata) and have only good things to say as well. We aren't saying ANYTHING about the seller. No one is saying he isn't disclosing condition facts, etc.. No one is saying there is a mystery, it's about PSA grading.

Some feel these cards are trimmed and the fact they are in PSA holders is the issue to those collectors. The Evers isn't trimmed but what would be a fair a grade for the Evers, disclosed pin-hole and all?

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Posted By: jay behrens

I noticed this too, that from front it does appear to have a pinhole, but if you look at the back, I can't see any evidence of that same hole on the backside. Am I missing something?

Jay

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Posted By: leon

I wonder if they didn't give some leniency to the Speaker T213 thinking it was like one of the other 2 series which are notoriously short bordered? It looks short from the pic.... As for the Evers E93 there is not doubt they slammed it for the pinhole in conjuction with other gd+ characteristics....it's a shame too because that card does not deserve a 1 (visually speaking)..The T206 Tinker looks real short from the picture.....looks like PSA might have blown that one too....regards all

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Posted By: jay berhens

Finally found the pinhole on the back. Blends in pretty well with the top line on lettering.

Got a feeling this card is gonna sell for alot more than most PSA1 cards would.

Jay

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Posted By: Bruce Moreland

"Also, the case on the t213 Speaker looks like it may have been cracked open. Look at the left edge near the middle."

You can see this kind of things on lots of cases, and it doesn't mean that the slab was broken open.

bruce

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Posted By: Bruce Moreland

"I agree: a card with a pinhole is FR at best, and more usually PR. The only more distracting flaw, I think, is writing on the front or back. I can only imagine the grades T3's would receive if either PSA or SGC got around to grading that issue, given how they were often hung on walls."

PSA gave the pinholed card a PSA-1, which is PR-FR. I have never seen a holed PSA-graded card that wasn't a PSA-1.

You'd think that they'd grade a T3 with a hole in it a PSA-1, too. Maybe they'd make an exception for that because those are so big.

Would you guys grade a T3 with a hole in it the same as you'd grade a T206 with a hole in it?

bruce

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Posted By: Bruce Moreland

"Ridiculous to put a grade on a trimmed card..."

If PSA had thought they were trimmed, they would have returned the card. If they see a deceptive alteration they don't include that in the grade on the card.

I don't know anything about T213. The T206 looks short.

The card certainly has some other horrible defect, in order to get a 2, probably a crease. Why do people trim creased cards?

bruce

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

I said "Ridulous to put a grade on a trimmed card." The pinhole speaks for itself:maximum poor, or is it fair?

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Posted By: Toscata

The Evers card measures larger than full size, but has the small pinhole and has color fading on the front, no creases..

The Tinker card is short top to bottom, no doubt trimmed at some point ...not by me..I bought it graded.

The T213-2 Speaker has a chip on the case...not cracked open, but damaged during shipping. the card has a major group of creases across the card from top to bottom that my be hard to see...Im not sure what guidebook dimensions are for this issue.
Dwayne