Safes - Fire Protection (Slabs?)

[Joe_G.]

I have a good safe for the items I keep at home but could use a little more room (for guns etc.) and have been looking at upgrading over the last couple years. I have not yet found a good site that compares safes against one another in a consistent fashion. Liberty likes to rate their safes as a function of time at 1200F before internal temperatures hit 350F (I believe this is average internal temperature). A Liberty Lincoln, for example, can withstand 90 minutes at 1200F before internal temperature rises to 350F (absorbing 95k BTU in the process). Champion and others rate their safes at different temperatures and test procedures making it difficult to directly compare.

In trying to pick out the right safe for my collectables I'd like to better understand what internal temperatures I need to target. For example, I know the following:

Paper will begin to yellow at 150C (302F)
Paper will auto-ignite at 218-246C (424-475F)

Cardboard would be higher, not sure about thin albumen photos mounted to cardboard.

So Liberty and others who allow up to 350F internal temperature for their safe's rating allow some paper yellowing but stop well short of when the paper auto-ignites.

Now to the point of my post . . . Does anyone know what temperature our slabs can safely withstand? Will they damage our keepsakes well before hitting 350F? Is anyone aware of tests with SGC and/or PSA slabs (or NGC/PCGS for coins)?

[Joe_G.]

If good data isn't available, it would be fairly easy to run a test to better understand risks. A test plan could look something like this:

1. Place 5 cheap/modern? slabbed cards in cardboard box in oven (boxed just as you would store in safe)
2. Bake at 200F for one hour, pull slab and allow to cool
3. Bake remaining four at 250F for another hour, pull slab and allow to cool
4. Bake remaining three at 300F for another hour, pull slab and allow to cool
5. Bake remaining two at 350F for another hour, pull slab and allow to cool
6. Bake final card at 400F for another hour, pull slab and allow to cool

The slabs should then be inspected followed by popping the cards out and looking for any signs of damage (damage the slab imparts on card). One could also place a non-baseball cabinet cut down to the size of OJ cards along with some paper to see how the two compare at the higher temperatures. Would probably want to include a secondary temperature measuring device placed on the box that you can read during test.

Have fire extinguisher on standby and pick a day the wife is away

[vthobby]

Joe,

You are close but I think the real recipe is this:

#1 Preheat oven to 350 degrees F (175 degrees C).
#2 Grease slabs (BVG. PSA, SGC)
#3 In a medium bowl, stir slabs together until smooth.
#4 Beat them one at a time, then stir in the penny plastics and top loaders.
#5 Place slabs 2 inches apart onto the prepared tin sheets. Place top loads and penny plastics aside for later.
#6 Bake for 8 to 10 minutes in the preheated oven. Allow slabs to cool on baking sheet for 5 minutes before removing to a wire rack to cool completely.

Check for damage.

Love your recipe though but this one is a family holiday fave so just wanted to share it!

peace, mike

[jburl]

If you decide to run the tests, you should do some video documentation of the process. I would love to see it.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by jburl

If you decide to run the tests, you should do some video documentation of the process. I would love to see it.

+1

[Jobu]

Have you tried contacting one of the TPGs? Different types of plastic melt at different temperatures. Given the amount of money TPGs have invested in the technology behind their holders I don't know that they would tell you the type of plastic, but they might give you an approximate melting point. From what I have read on Net54 I would start with SGC because you seem a lot more likely to get an answer from them than you do from PSA.

As you can see here:

http://machinist-materials.com/compa...r_plastics.htm

and here:

http://plastictroubleshooter.com/The...melt_temps.htm

there is a lot of variability in melt point. That said, it seems like most plastics have a melt point that is 325-350 or higher.

[Texxxx]

You can do what I did and get a 125 class media safe and not worry about it. They are expensive and you have to get one that pretty large for the space inside.

[AJR]

Originally Posted by Texxxx

You can do what I did and get a 125 class media safe and not worry about it. They are expensive and you have to get one that pretty large for the space inside.

The above is correct for protecting items made of plastic.

In a previous career I worked for a large safe and vault manufacturer. In order to properly protect media and items made of plastic you need a safe with a UL (Underwriters Laboratory) 125 rating.

UL 125 means the interior temperature will not rise above 125 Fahrenheit even if exterior temps reach 2000 degrees Fahrenheit. This rating is the requirement for protecting digital information on magnetic media such as DLT or LTO tapes as well as CD's, DVD's and optical disks.

Temperatures inside the protected data safe or media safe must be held below 125-degrees Fahrenheit (51.7-degrees Celsius) for the time period specified, such as Class 125-2 Hour, with temperatures up to 2,000-degrees Fahrenheit (1,093.3-degrees Celsius) outside the vault.

The temperature reading is taken on six sides of the inside surfaces of the protective safe. Maintaining the temperature below 125-degrees F. is critical because data is lost above that temperature threshold, even if the media or hard drives appear to be intact.

They can be purchased online or from a local safe company. Be prepared to pay a large delivery and installation fee as these units are heavy and cumbersome.

If you live in New York City, Connetticut or New Jersey I would suggest calling Empire Safe Co.

Hope this helps.

Aaron