Red Sun: T210 v. T211 // T218 v. T226

[mybuddyinc]

Not to hijack Jason’s T210 thread, I moved this discussion over to this new post:

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Originally Posted by mybuddyinc

Second up is T211 Red Sun "sister" boxing series, T226. The back also indicates a "First Series" (and a great misspelling). The images match up (not all, but grand majority) to T218, which there are 62 boxers. I could go on, but main point is there was a most expected "Second Series."

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DixieBaseball
JeR@Me

- Scott - That is great evidence right there and to me provides enough proof, there was going to be that 2nd series of T211's. To confirm... of the 30 Red Sun Boxers, do all 30 reside with same pose in that T218 set? Also, have you spotted any trend with the 2nd batch of T218's? Do those next 32 Boxers come from a different time period (Realizing these were printed as one set, but curious about the 32 boxers not included in T211 set... Which set came first?) I wonder if we analyzed the history of those 32 boxers, would there be some identifier from one of the cards where by it had to have been printed at a later date. (Example from Lipset : T211's include certain SLers due to time period they played, etc. (T211's were released in early 1910) ---- Great info... Would love to see the back of the T218. Do we know when the T218's were printed and distributed as well as the Red Sun boxers?

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Here is a lot of information that is probably over kill, and many won’t be interested. However, it does give some interesting dates. The last date mentioned in biography of T218 boxer for Series 1 is “Fighting” Phil McGovern on 2/7/10, so series 1 had to be produced after this date. The latest date for Series 2 is Valentine “Knock Out” Brown on 5/12/10. Suggesting Series 1 distributed in Spring 1910, and Series 2 in Summer 1910. Series 3 has a latest date of 10/29/10. However, the three Aviators give later dates:

Ralph Johnstone killed 11/17/10
Arch Hoxley killed 12/31/10
John Moisant killed 12/31/10


These dates put Series 3 distribution into 1911.

The comparison of T218 vs. T226 is not as strong as T210 vs. T211. In fact arguable, no comparison at all, other than shared images. However, if you want to make something of it: Series 1 has a decent correlation of 15 same image, 8 different, 2 no card. Series 2 is even better at 20 same, 1 different, 5 no card. Series 3 is way out of date, with 0 same, 1 different, and 10 no cards. Therefore, I would “assume” T226 was distributed in Summer 1910. A slightly later date than the T211.

There are 5 T226 boxers who do not have T218 cards. There are no dates in their boxing careers that could place them specifically to any series. They all fought years before and after the 1910/11 time frame.

218226D.jpg

[Jason]

Very interesting information Scott thanks for sharing. I believe you guys are onto something with the T211 having a second Series planned.

[vintagehofrookies]

I never knew of these cards until this thread and I just went and saw a back and I really like what I see! What an awesome back. Are there any Hofers as part of this set?

[DixieBaseball]

Scott,

Thanks for sharing this information. It is hard to defend there wasn't a 2nd series intended, even though there is no 2nd series! Interesting... Perhaps, the reason why there was no 2nd series was b/c the 1st series didn't do to well due to the cigarettes not being preferred and bought!? With so few examples of T211's out there and only 1 known pack, I have to wonder if they were actually a good smoke? Perhaps it was not one of the regions better releases, and they shelved selling Red Sun's as a result. Obviously the 1st series were not that great a hit as these T211's run about like the Type 1 Coupons. Less than 10 examples known to exists on most every example. (Raw & Graded...)

[th38larg]

Many of the t226 cards have the same pictures as the t218s (often the t218 images are cropped versions of the t226). I think there are a couple of t226 boxers that are not in the t218 set.