NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-27-2015, 12:26 PM
Hake's Auctions Hake's Auctions is offline
member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 74
Default Hake's Auction #214 Now Online Negro & Cuban League Rarities, MLB Stars & Much More

Hake’s Americana & Collectibles Auction #214 Now Online And Open For Bidding at www.hakes.com.

The auction closes March 17-19, 2015. In addition to baseball items, there are vintage collectibles in over 200 collecting categories, with a total of nearly 2,800 items up for bid.

Hake's has been the premier source for Pop Culture and Americana since 1967 and in recent years has offered some of the rarest and most sought after baseball items including those pertaining to the Cuban and Negro Leagues, with many coming from the legendary Richard Merkin Collection. This auction we also have pin-back buttons and other items from the Paul Muchinsky Collection.

One of the true highlights this auction is a copy of the 1907 "HISTORY OF COLORED BASE BALL" BY SOL WHITE. This historically significant publication is one of less than a dozen copies known to exist.

Merkin Collection highlights this auction include:

1907 "MANITOWOC" BASEBALL TEAM REAL PHOTO POSTCARD W/NEGRO LEAGUE STAR GEORGE WILSON.

LEGENDARY NEGRO LEAGUE PLAYER SPOTTSWOOD POLES REAL PHOTO POSTCARD.

NEGRO LEAGUE LEGEND AND HOF MEMBER JUDY JOHNSON REAL PHOTO POSTCARD.

1922-23 HAVANA LIONS CUBAN BASEBALL TEAM PHOTO W/HOF MEMBERS POP LLOYD, DIHIGO & TORRIENTE.

1934 NEW YORK BLACK YANKEES NEGRO LEAGUE TEAM PHOTO.

HOF MEMBER AND NEGRO LEAGUE LEGEND RAYMOND BROWN VERY RARE SIGNED PHOTO.

1937 CIUDAD TRUJILLO TEAM PHOTO WITH FOUR PLAYERS INCLUDING SATCHEL PAIGE.

"SATCHEL PAIGE'S ALL STARS" 1946 TEAM PHOTO WITH NEGRO LEAGUE LEGENDS.

1943 MONTERREY MEXICO TEAM RRPC WITH ROY CAMPANELLA SGC 40 VG 3.

"CIENFUEGOS" 1945-46 CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM PHOTO WITH MARTIN DIHIGO.

1948 MEXICO CITY RED DEVILS (DIABLOS ROJOS) TEAM PHOTO WITH HOF MEMBER LEON DAY.

HOF BROTHERS PAUL & LLOYD WANER SAN FRANCISCO SEALS PRE-ROOKIE NEWS SERVICE PHOTO.

1933 NATIONAL LEAGUE ALL-STAR TEAM PHOTO FOR INAUGURAL GAME.

JOE MEDWICK HOUSTON BUFFALOES PRE-ROOKIE PHOTO.

Other baseball highlights include:

"1904 CUBAN X GIANTS" NEGRO LEAGUE TEAM PHOTO.

1948 HOMESTEAD GRAYS NEGRO LEAGUE TEAM PHOTO WITH HOF MEMBER BUCK LEONARD.

1922 CUBAN STARS (EAST) NEGRO LEAGUE TEAM PHOTO WITH OMS & HOF MEMBER POMPEZ.

"NEGRO LEAGUE DOUBLE-HEADER" SCORE CARD FEATURING HOF MEMBERS SATCHEL PAIGE & JOSH GIBSON.

CY YOUNG SIGNED ALBERTYPE BASEBALL HALL OF FAME POSTCARD.

"1905 LE BIJOU" OHIO WESLEYAN YEARBOOK WITH BRANCH RICKEY & BLACK BALLPLAYER CHARLES THOMAS.

DOMED BASEBALL TABS FROM 1930s COMPLETE ONLY KNOWN SET OF 24 TEAMS.

HOF MEMBER AND NEGRO LEAGUE LEGEND EFFA MANLEY NEWS SERVICE PHOTO.

“HERALD AND EXAMINER BABE RUTH CLUB” RARE 1930s NEWSPAPER CLUB BUTTON.

1909 PITTSBURGH PIRATES "NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPIONS" FRAMED PANORAMIC POSTCARD.

RARE AND UNUSUAL BADGE READING “PRESS/1943/ST. LOUIS.”

COMPLETE 1950s SET OF PREMIUM BUTTONS FROM AMERICAN NUT & CHOCOLATE.

“CLEVELAND INDIANS 1954 AMERICAN LEAGUE CHAMPIONS” SCARCE LARGE TEAM PHOTO BUTTON.

“JOE DiMAGGIO CLUB/BUITONI FOODS CORP.” SCARCE LITHO PORTRAIT BUTTON.

1939-46 EXHIBITS LOU GEHRIG SGC 50 VG/EX 4.

"YORK AREA SPORTS NIGHT" MULTI-SIGNED PROGRAM LOT INCLUDING ROBERTO CLEMENTE.

NEGRO & CUBAN LEAGUE PITCHING STAR JUAN PADRON PHOTO.

JACK DAVIS FRAMED FULL COLOR ORIGINAL ART WITH VARIOUS BASEBALL STARS.

NEGRO LEAGUE LEGENDS MULTI-SIGNED FIRST DAY COVER.

1947 BOND BREAD PREMIUM JACKIE ROBINSON PORTRAIT SGC 30 GOOD 2.

1947 BOND BREAD PREMIUM JACKIE ROBINSON AWAITING PITCH SGC 10 POOR 1.

CLEVELAND INDIANS GIBBS-CONNOR "CHIEF WAHOO" 1954 SEASON BANK.

CLEVELAND INDIANS GIBBS-CONNOR "CHIEF WAHOO" WALL PLAQUE & MATCHSTICK HOLDER.

"AURORA GREAT MOMENTS IN SPORTS - BABE RUTH" MODEL KIT.

AURORA "BABE RUTH" POSITIVE PRINTERS FILM FOR BOX ARTWORK.

1951 BOWMAN WILLIE MAYS ROOKIE HIGH NUMBER SGC 30 GOOD 2.

1947-66 EXHIBITS BASEBALL CARD LOT OF 64 W/5 SGC GRADED.

SANDY KOUFAX SIGNED "LIFE" MAGAZINE.

THURMAN MUNSON & MONTE IRVIN SIGNED CARD.

GEORGE SOSNAK "ST. LOUIS CARDINALS" FOLK ART BASEBALL.

GEORGE SOSNAK "HANK AARON - HANK HAMMERS 715th" FOLK ART ENVELOPE.

GARTLAN DEALER'S DISPLAY SHOWCASE WITH LOT OF TEN SPORTS COLLECTIBLES.

This is just a sampling of the baseball material offered in this auction, and in addition to this, there are items for other sports, non-sport gum card & related and so much more.

Every Hake’s auction covers the widest range of Pop Culture and Americana offered at a single time by any auction house.

Contact Heather for a complimentary copy of the 400 page full color catalog at 866-404-9800 ext. 1612.

The auction is now online and open for bidding at www.hakes.com and closes March 17-19, 2015.

Last edited by Hake's Auctions; 02-27-2015 at 12:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-27-2015, 12:30 PM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is online now
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 34,196
Default

Good luck Alex and team. Another great showing!!
__________________
Leon Luckey
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-14-2015, 07:37 AM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is online now
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 34,196
Default

A friendly bump for a valued advertiser.......Good luck Alex and team!!
__________________
Leon Luckey
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-14-2015, 10:12 AM
bmarlowe1's Avatar
bmarlowe1 bmarlowe1 is offline
Mark
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,431
Default

See item 889
http://www.hakes.com/item.asp?Auction=214&ItemNo=141400

The description says, "The prominent figure on this item is James Leslie Wilkinson who stands at center of the back row wearing suit and hat"

Unfortunately they continue to perpetuate the myth that the man below right is J. L. Wilkinson. He is not. The real Wilkinson c1910 appears below left.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg wilk ds1.jpg (23.8 KB, 500 views)
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-14-2015, 10:32 AM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is online now
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 34,196
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmarlowe1 View Post
See item 889
http://www.hakes.com/item.asp?Auction=214&ItemNo=141400

The description says, "The prominent figure on this item is James Leslie Wilkinson who stands at center of the back row wearing suit and hat"

Unfortunately they continue to perpetuate the myth that the man below right is J. L. Wilkinson. He is not. The real Wilkinson c1910 appears below left.
Do you have any idea where the myth started, Mark? From a layperson's view I can see some similarities, but I will leave it to you guys that do this stuff all of the time for the best id. At the price the postcard is at right now, it's not that bad of a buy as a completely generic, old and interesting baseball team...
__________________
Leon Luckey

Last edited by Leon; 03-14-2015 at 10:33 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-14-2015, 10:54 AM
bmarlowe1's Avatar
bmarlowe1 bmarlowe1 is offline
Mark
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,431
Default

Leon - I sometimes do find out where these things start, but in this case I don't know. It's usually either wishful thinking or someone wanting to make a few extra bucks (or some of both). I agree it's still a nice item. As for price, I'm not an expert on that.

The real Wilkinson had almost no cupids bow at the bottom of his philtrum. The guy in question has a deep and very distinct cupids bow. Also the left (viewer's right) ear and nose do not look right.

I've included another c1910 image of Wilkinson below left. When you have photos of the same person, it's usually obvious right away and you don't have to look too hard for similarities.

I should add that I had contacted them privately about this and received no response.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg wilk5.jpg (49.3 KB, 483 views)

Last edited by bmarlowe1; 03-14-2015 at 11:24 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-14-2015, 12:50 PM
GoldenAge50s's Avatar
GoldenAge50s GoldenAge50s is offline
FredYoung
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: RI
Posts: 7,761
Default

Hake's seems very reluctant to change once they list something.

A few auctions ago they had mis-identified a couple of players on some '50's gum machine charms & had no identities on a couple of others.

I wrote a nice EM, told them I had been studying & collecting these charms since childhood, corrected the ID's for them and received a reply that they appreciated my info & would indeed correct the listing.

They never did.
__________________
I've learned that I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy it.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-14-2015, 01:01 PM
FirstYearCards FirstYearCards is offline
Bill Lucier
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 249
Default

Instead of trying to prove who it isn't, is it possible to prove who it is?
__________________
I'm always collecting Hall of Fame Rookies and First Year Cards.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-14-2015, 03:31 PM
bmarlowe1's Avatar
bmarlowe1 bmarlowe1 is offline
Mark
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,431
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstYearCards View Post
Instead of trying to prove who it isn't, is it possible to prove who it is?
What's important is that it is claimed to be an early image of a HoFer, which it is not. Why should one have to first or instead prove who it is?

In any case, go ahead.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-14-2015, 03:52 PM
Huysmans Huysmans is offline
Br.ent So.bie
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,013
Default

There's some great items.

Last edited by Huysmans; 03-14-2015 at 04:25 PM. Reason: at leons request
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-14-2015, 11:15 PM
FirstYearCards FirstYearCards is offline
Bill Lucier
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 249
Default

In full disclosure I do own one of these cards. That being said, I couldn't care less about proving or disproving the man's identity. However, if auction houses and grading companies say it is while Mark says it isn't, I should think a little more research into who the man is should be added to claims that most people/companies have it wrong.
__________________
I'm always collecting Hall of Fame Rookies and First Year Cards.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-14-2015, 11:29 PM
Jaybird's Avatar
Jaybird Jaybird is offline
J@son M1ller
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,430
Default

I've never thought it was hin either. So add one more to the list.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-14-2015, 11:39 PM
bmarlowe1's Avatar
bmarlowe1 bmarlowe1 is offline
Mark
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,431
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstYearCards View Post
In full disclosure I do own one of these cards. That being said, I couldn't care less about proving or disproving the man's identity. However, if auction houses and grading companies say it is while Mark says it isn't, I should think a little more research into who the man is should be added to claims that most people/companies have it wrong.
>> However, if auction houses and grading companies say it is

While the situation may have improved a bit, they have been shown many times to have essentially no idea as to how to identify faces in photos (most will actually now admit that), and likely no auction house or grading company that has represented this image as depicting Wilkinson would be able to tell you where the ID came from. I have shown that I at least have some notion as to how to do this. If there is a significant facial feature mismatch then it is not him.

It is probably not knowable who this really is. That does not change him into Wilkinson.

This has been discussed here before: http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=169714

Last edited by bmarlowe1; 03-15-2015 at 01:29 AM. Reason: spelling
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-15-2015, 08:26 AM
slidekellyslide's Avatar
slidekellyslide slidekellyslide is offline
Dan Bretta
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 6,122
Default

I was doing research on some Schmeltzer Sporting Goods baseball player real photo postcards I had come across when I had found they had a link with JL Wilkinson....I started doing more research on Wilkinson and learned that he got his start in the sporting goods industry with Hopkins bros out of Des Moines the article I found mentioned Wilkinson managing a women's team for the store. I had seen numerous postcards of this team through my years of collecting barnstorming team postcards. I found mine and started doing my own "facial recognition" between the postcard and known photos of Wilkinson. I'm no expert like Mark is, and Mark wasn't even around this forum at the time of this discovery. So I guess I am to blame for the auction houses using this info and running with it. I still am not convinced that it's not him, but I also don't want to say that I 100% believe that it is him. More research needs to be done on this team, I gotta believe that some research with old Des Moines newspapers would bring up more info and possibly some photos. I'm actually somewhat surprised that more research hasn't already been done since he got elected to the Hall of Fame.
__________________
Looking for Nebraska Indians memorabilia, photos and postcards
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-15-2015, 09:40 PM
bmarlowe1's Avatar
bmarlowe1 bmarlowe1 is offline
Mark
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,431
Default

Yes, the original 2007 discussion can be found here:
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=87984

Below I compare the 2 versions of the face in question that I have (RPPC left, dot matrix print center), both giving a pretty good sense of the shape of this guy's visible ear.

Comparing these to a Wilkinson exemplar taken at virtually the same angle (far right) the difference in ear shape as seen from the front, the amount that he ear sticks out and the angle of the ear with respect to the head is clear and substantial. It is essentially impossible for this guy to be Wilkinson.

There's another facial thing that is equally damning to the Wilkinson claim, but I'll save it for a future article.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg wilka_Page_2.jpg (72.4 KB, 272 views)

Last edited by bmarlowe1; 03-15-2015 at 09:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 06-16-2015, 08:32 AM
bmarlowe1's Avatar
bmarlowe1 bmarlowe1 is offline
Mark
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,431
Default

Definitive article, I think, about this image (by me) can be found here on page 13:

http://sabr.box.com/shared/static/k4...vdy9f8uod7.pdf

Last edited by bmarlowe1; 06-16-2015 at 08:47 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 06-16-2015, 09:55 PM
slidekellyslide's Avatar
slidekellyslide slidekellyslide is offline
Dan Bretta
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 6,122
Default

Good read Mark, it's a tough pill for me to swallow but I accept your research.....Hopkins Bros was a sporting goods company though and not a furniture company.
__________________
Looking for Nebraska Indians memorabilia, photos and postcards
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06-16-2015, 10:26 PM
Jeff_cvc's Avatar
Jeff_cvc Jeff_cvc is offline
Jeff R
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Denver
Posts: 324
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmarlowe1 View Post
Definitive article, I think, about this image (by me) can be found here on page 13:

http://sabr.box.com/shared/static/k4...vdy9f8uod7.pdf
Wow, really incredible and interesting research, thank you for sharing.
__________________
Successful Net54 transactions with: t206fix x2, Shammus, mybuddyinc x3, FrankWakefield, Brian Van Horn, Jrsox, Vintagetoppsguy, powderfinger, Bocabirdman x2, Baseball*Collectibles, bcbgcbrcb, Vintageismygame, usernamealreadytaken, oldjudge x2, Joshchisox08, rocarroll, Voodoochild, Sebie43 and frankbmd and more...
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 06-17-2015, 08:43 AM
bwbc917 bwbc917 is offline
Chris
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 221
Default Wow

Fantastic research and analysis. Great job.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 06-17-2015, 09:38 AM
triwak's Avatar
triwak triwak is offline
Ken Wirt
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Durango, Colorado
Posts: 1,022
Default

Great. I was one of the first guinea pigs who forked out $400 for this postcard, after the initial thread. And in other news, my prized 1978 bicycle was stolen, this past Saturday night. It's been a fun-filled week.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 06-17-2015, 10:33 AM
bmarlowe1's Avatar
bmarlowe1 bmarlowe1 is offline
Mark
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,431
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by triwak View Post
Great. I was one of the first guinea pigs who forked out $400 for this postcard, after the initial thread. And in other news, my prized 1978 bicycle was stolen, this past Saturday night. It's been a fun-filled week.
Sorry to hear about that Ken. I guess that mean you won't be able to do this with the postcard :
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Mantle-Spokes-Jim-Degerstrom.jpg (39.9 KB, 68 views)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
babe ruth, cuban league, jackie robinson, negro league, yankees



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hake's Auction #209 Now Online-Negro & Cuban League Rarities And Much More... Hake's Auctions Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 3 07-22-2013 08:40 AM
Hake's Auction #208 Now Online-Negro & Cuban League Rarities And Much More... Hake's Auctions Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 1 03-04-2013 01:30 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:58 AM.


ebay GSB