Sovereign "150-ONLY"....SURVEY

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Posted By: Pennsylvania Ted

Approx. 61 subjects in the 150/350 Series, with respect to the Sovereign brand, were NOT printed
with Sovereign 350 backs. Therefore, I classify these subjects as....Sovereign 150-ONLY....cards.

Included in this list of 150-only cards are the 1st Series portraits of five CUBS....Chance, Evers,
Overall, Steinfeldt and Tinker. The omission of these five as Sov 350 cards is most likely attri-
butable to their uniform change as the 350 cards were being printed.
As, my research shows that Sovereign's were always printed subsequent to Piedmont, Sweet Cap.,
Hindu, and EPDG cards.

Most significant in this list....is the Green portrait of TY COBB. Therefore, all you Ty Cobb collectors,
that are collecting every card of him....stop looking for him with a Sovereign 350 back, my research
shows that this card of him does not exist.

List of all the 150/350 Subjects with no confirmed Sov 350 backs.

Ball (NY)...................Tom Jones
Beaumont..................Karger
Bergen (bat)..............Keeler (port)
Bowerman..................Killian (throw)
Bradley (port).............Konetchy (gl/hi)
Bransfield...................Lajoie (port)
................................Lajoie (throw)
Chance (red)..............Lake (NY)
Chase (pink)...............Leach (port)
Chesbro.....................Lindaman
F. Clarke (port)...........Lobert
JJ Clarke....................Lumley
Cobb (green)..............Marquard (hds/side)
Conroy (fldg)..............McIntyre (Brooklyn)
Covaleski...................McQuillan (ball/hd)
Crandall (no cap).........Mullin (horiz)
Criss.........................Overall (port)
Dahlen (Bost).............Owen
H. Davis.....................Pastorius
Delehanty (Wash)........Powell
Doolin........................Ritchey
L. Doyle (throw)..........Rucker (port)
Evers (port)................Shaw (St Lo)
Ewing........................Spencer
Ganley.......................Steinfeldt (bat)
Gibson.......................L Tannehill
Gilbert.......................Tinker (port)
Hahn.........................Waddell (throw)
Hemphill.....................Wagner (bat/left)
Herzog (NY)................Wilhelm (hd/ch)
Hinchman (Clev)...........Williams

This list of mine isn't cast in stone....if Net54ers can confirm any of these cards with a Sovereign 350
back, please post it here.....we have ourselves another SURVEY ?

Also, I've never found a Mike Donlin (hands on knees) with a Sovereign 150 back....so, if anyone can
confirm this back it would be very appreciated.

Thanks,

TED Z

Edited to remove the M. Brown card on the list.

[Archive]

Posted By: Pennsylvania Ted

Hey guys....check-out your T206's....we have ourselves a new SURVEY ?

See if you can prove me wrong....and, confirm some of these "No-Print" Sovereign 350 cards....that are on my list.

T-Rex TED

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Posted By: Dave F

I didn't find any of the above with a Sov 350 in my meager collection.

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Posted By: Pennsylvania Ted

Scott Ingold....Lyle Jobes....Art Martineau....and to all the other serious Ty Cobb collectors on this Forum.....

Do you have....or have you ever seen a SOVEREIGN 350 card of this Ty Cobb ?

Furthermore....how about a SWEET CAPORAL 350, Fac 25 ?

Or, an El PRINCIPE de GALES ?

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Ted, I have kept an eye on the Green Cobb for years and have never once seen one with an EPDG back.

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Posted By: Scot Reader

Ted,
Your "Sovereign 150-only" list includes most of the more difficult subjects from the 150/350 series. My suspicion is that these subjects not only were not printed with Sovereign 350 but were also either not printed or short printed with the other 350 backs. My survey data indicate that 350 backs account for 26% of all backs seen on 150/350 subjects. Limited printing of these subjects with 350 backs thus may account for their relative difficulty.
Scot

[Archive]

Posted By: Pennsylvania Ted

150 Series

Piedmont
Sovereign
Sweet Cap Factory #25
Sweet Cap Factory #30
Brown HINDU

350 Series

Piedmont
Sweet Cap Factory #30
Old Mill

The Piedmont (150 & 350) backs on this Cobb far out number all the other backs.

[Archive]

Posted By: Art M.

Ted,
I do not have any of the T206's you listed with Sovereign 350 subjects backs.
After looking for over 25 years I have never seen a Cobb, green, with Sovereign 350 or EPDG backs.
Art

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Big Surprise!!! I agree with Ted and Art; I haven't seen one either.

Be well Brian


PS Ted, Did you get my email last night?

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Posted By: Pennsylvania Ted

Yes, I received your email....very interesting observation and find.

I have some similar variations in T206's that I will email you.

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Posted By: Pennsylvania Ted

While it is always nice to get reponses on Cobb, let's not lose sight of the larger part of this SURVEY....
confirming any of these Sovereign 350 cards. So, far the non-responses indicate either a non-interest,
or that I did my homework well in researching these cards.

Also, don't forget the elusive Mr Donlin. Shown here are the only backs known with this tough 1st Series
card of him. Let's see if any of you have a Sovereign 150..or, this Donlin with any other back than these
three on display.

Thanks, for taking the time to go thru your T206's.

TED Z

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Posted By: judd hamlin

Ted - No cards to add to your survey on my end. Good job.

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Posted By: Scot Reader

Ted,
I am keenly interested in this thread, but as you probably already know I cannot subtract any cards from your list.
Scot

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Posted By: Ron

Hi Ted,
I have the Brown port. On you list.
Best Regards Ron

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Posted By: MVSNYC

Ted- i just picked-up a PSA 5 Donlin, fielding...i am out of town this weekend, but will tell you on monday which back it has...


by the way, my PSA 6 Powers has the SC 649 overprint!

[Archive]

Posted By: barry arnold

TRex,

I have them all except for the Tinker and Keeler Portraits but no
Sovereigns. Sorry.
same goes for your Donlin question.

all the best,

barry

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Posted By: Pennsylvania Ted

Ron, Mike and Barry A

Thanks for your inputs.....

How about some more responses, guys and gals ?

TED Z

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Posted By: leon

1909 T206 Sovereign150 Davis gd-vg

1909 T206 SOvereign350 Birmingham vg

1909 T206 Sovereign460 Herzog gd+

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Posted By: steve yawitz

My Sovereigns of Beaumont, Gilbert, Hinchman, Overall and Williams are all 150's.

http://imageevent.com/yawie99

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Posted By: Pennsylvania Ted

Tough back on the Powers. However, more of them have been available than the other 34 subjects
with this particular back.
As addon subset to my T206 collection, I'm trying to collect the 35 - SC150 Fac #649 (ovpt) backs.

And, I'll bet you a NY steak....that your Donlin is NOT a Sovereign 150 card ?

TED Z

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Posted By: MVSNYC

ted- i am almost sure it is NOT a Sov back...i think Piedmont if i remember correctly, but will let you knwo for sure tomorrow.

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Posted By: Peter Thomas

Ted, 1 sovereign 150 - Beaumont, 1 Sovereign 350 - Lavender

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Posted By: Mike Ellis

Ted - I looked through my T206 set and I cannot find any of the cards on your list. However, in response to your Green Cobb question - I have a Green Cobb, Sweet Caporal 350 factory 25 (SGC 50). Mike Ellis

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Posted By: Pennsylvania Ted

MIKE E

Sweet Cap 350 fac 25 is a new one for Cobb....but, not one that wasn't anticipated.

The Piedmont and Sweet Cap brands, I believe were always the 1st off the presses.
The Sovereigns were "Johnny come lately" in the order of production and distribution

As most T206 collectors view the Sovereign's to be relatively common, there are many
subjects with this T-brand that are very tough to find; and, as I have identified......
not to be found at all.

In the 350 Series there are 64 cards....and including Kleinow (Boston) and Smith (Chi &
Bos) from the 460 Series....that makes 66 that were never printed on a Sovereign back.
Furthermore, you can add the "Big Six" and Lundgren (Cubs) and I think Donlin (fldg) and
of course the 48 So. Lgers to give you a total = 122 cards that are "No-Sovereigns".

In trying to understand this set, it surely can very tricky.

Thanks,

TED Z

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Posted By: Pennsylvania Ted

OK, guys when ART M says there are no Sovereign 350 or EPDG backs of the Green Cobb, you can "take
that to the bank".

So, case is closed on the Cobb question in this Thread.

So, let's get down to business on searching for the other 60 cards on this list which I claim don't exist....
with Sov 350 backs.

TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: Pennsylvania Ted

DELETED

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Posted By: Pennsylvania Ted

OK, guys and gals...."One More Once"....as Count Basie would encore one of his great jazz renditions.

Final go around on this survey.....let's see if you have any these ?

UPDATED list of 61....Sovereign 350....No-Prints

Ball (NY)...................Tom Jones
Beaumont..................Karger
Bergen (bat)..............Keeler (port)
Bowerman..................Killian (throw)
Bradley (port).............Konetchy (gl/hi)
Bransfield...................Lajoie (port)
................................Lajoie (throw)
Chance (red)..............Lake (NY)
Chase (pink)...............Leach (port)
Chesbro.....................Lindaman
F. Clarke (port)...........Lobert
JJ Clarke....................Lumley
Cobb (green)..............Marquard (hds/side)
Conroy (fldg)..............McIntyre (Brooklyn)
Covaleski...................McQuillan (ball/hd)
Crandall (no cap).........Mullin (horiz)
Criss.........................Overall (port)
Dahlen (Bost).............Owen
H. Davis.....................Pastorius
Delehanty (Wash)........Powell
Doolin........................Ritchey
L. Doyle (throw)..........Rucker (port)
Evers (port)................Shaw (St Lo)
Ewing........................Spencer
Ganley.......................Steinfeldt (bat)
Gibson.......................L Tannehill
Gilbert.......................Tinker (port)
Hahn.........................Waddell (throw)
Hemphill.....................Wagner (bat/left)
Herzog (NY)................Wilhelm (hd/ch)
Hinchman (Clev)..........Williams

Thanks for your time and effort to check-out your T206's.

[Archive]

Posted By: ockday

Ted..checked my set minus the big 4 and don't have any that are listed.
Alqan

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Posted By: Pennsylvania Ted

Thanks for taking the time and going thru your set.

I just started a new survey on another thread regarding Joe Doyle card, when you get a chance
could you check yours for the "printer's mark" ?

Thanks again,
TED Z

[Luke]

I was trying to figure out whether or not Fred Clarke's portrait was printed with a Sov350 back, and came across this thread.

T206resource.com says this card exists, but I think that is incorrect?

http://t206resource.com/Sovereign%20...Checklist.html

Originally, I thought that if a card was printed with a Hindu, EPDG, and Sov150 back, then it would not have a Sov350 back. It now appears that I was wrong to assume this. Can anyone help me understand why some poses have both a Sov150 & Sov350 back, and others only the Sov150?


Also, I'm assuming by now, you're aware of it, but here is a Donlin Sov150:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/T206-Mike-Do...item2595c51835

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by LukeLyon

I was trying to figure out whether or not Fred Clarke's portrait was printed with a Sov350 back, and came across this thread.

T206resource.com says this card exists, but I think that is incorrect?

http://t206resource.com/Sovereign%20...Checklist.html

Originally, I thought that if a card was printed with a Hindu, EPDG, and Sov150 back, then it would not have a Sov350 back. It now appears that I was wrong to assume this. Can anyone help me understand why some poses have both a Sov150 & Sov350 back, and others only the Sov150?


Also, I'm assuming by now, you're aware of it, but here is a Donlin Sov150:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/T206-Mike-Do...item2595c51835

delete...

[Luke]

Gonna bump this again one time to see if it catches the eye of anyone who can shed some light on my question.