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  #51  
Old 01-19-2012, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Runscott View Post
Could someone please explain the significance of the '150 only' group of 12 (or 13 or 11)? And why do you think sheets were printed containing ONLY those cards? At the time that the first sheets were printed, I don't think ATC knew which cards would NOT be included in the '350' group.

I'm sure this information is presented somewhere, but it eludes me.
Scott I know you want proof so I'll do the best I can.

ATC knew they were printing more than one series from the beginning. The first Sporting Life ad says "First Series-150 Subjects." This shows ATC intending on there being at least two series. You can't have a first without a second.

When the first series began being printed that included the Sovereign 150 backs it totaled exactly 150 subjects. When the second print group was first printed it totaled exactly 200 subjects. That's a grand total of 350.

Research shows that the 150 subjects were chosen in early 1909 to be included in the set. Along with documentation like the Ball letter, team designations show this.

If you also carefully study the subjects from print group 2 you will find they were chosen at the same time. Only a few major league subjects that changed teams after the start of the 1909 season had their team designations updated prior to the start of the print group 2 production in 1910.

There are 13 subjects that are referred to as 150 Only. All of these subjects were part of print group 1.

The Magie/Magee correction was not considered a new subject by ATC. They simply viewed it as a correction of an existing subject.

The same goes for the George Brown team change. ATC did not view team changes like this, Dahlen, Elberfeld and others as a new subject. Just an update to an existing subject. There is proof of this in the numbers. If you would like for me to go into it further I will.

The only difference in the remaining 10 that can be found only with 150 Subjects backs is that they were discontinued earlier than the rest of the group. This happened prior to the print group 1 subjects being printed with 350 Subjects backs. I have not seen any evidence that they were printed any differently than the other 140 original 150 Subjects throughout the 150 Series.
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Last edited by Abravefan11; 01-19-2012 at 09:28 PM.
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  #52  
Old 01-19-2012, 09:42 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
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Originally Posted by Abravefan11 View Post
Scott - The closest explanation we give to what you're looking for is on the Print Group 1 page on T206Rsource.com.

It states the following about the Sovereign 150

Original 150 Subjects
Throughout the T206 set, the Sovereign back brand is an important key for understanding the set's composition. During the early production of the 150 Series, subjects from group 1 were printed with the Sovereign 150 back. Though this group totals 159 subjects, the Sovereign 150 checklist is complete at 150 subjects. This Sovereign checklist is thought to be the original 150 subjects in the set, with the additional nine being updated or added to the print group after the Sovereign 150 printing -- or in the case of Magie/Magee, corrected prior to this printing.

Your...... "This Sovereign checklist is thought to be the original 150 subjects in the set " ...... What is your evidence of this hypothesis of yours ?

You appear to be stuck on (or perhaps, carried away) with the fact that the exact number of 150-subjects in the SOVEREIGN 150 press run is something "magic".
And, if I understand you....Are you really saying that the printing of the SOVEREIGN 150 cards preceded the printing of the PIEDMONT 150 & SWEET CAPORAL
150 (Factory 25 & 30) cards ?

1st....the Jennings (portrait) card contradicts your "thought", as it was printed ONLY with a PIEDMONT 150 back (NO SOVEREIGN 150 back....NO SWEET CAPORAL
150 back....NO HINDU back). This lone PIEDMONT 150 card of Jennings does not jive with your "SOVEREIGN 150 hypothesis".

2nd....the Crawford (throwing) card was printed with the PIEDMONT 150 back and the SWEET CAPORAL 150 backs....but, NO HINDU or SOVEREIGN 150 backs. The
logical timeline here regarding the Crawford & Jennings cards suggests to us that American Litho. printed the HINDU and SOVEREIGN (150 series) cards subsequent
to the PIEDMONT and SWEET CAP cards.

Furthermore, your claim that Wagner & Plank were printed subsequent to the SOVEREIGN 150 cards, absolutely makes NO logical sense....for, if this was so, Wagner
and Plank would exist with SOVEREIGN 150 backs. What is your timeline for the SOVEREIGN 150 printing ?

What we know of the T206 timeline, circa May 1909 was the first release of the 150 series cards. Then, followed by circa August 1909 release of the HINDU cards.
Now, we would like to know what your release dates are with respect to the introduction of the PIEDMONT 150, SWEET CAPORAL 150 and the SOVEREIGN 150 cards ?


TED Z

Last edited by tedzan; 01-20-2012 at 07:39 AM.
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  #53  
Old 01-19-2012, 10:07 PM
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Thanks, Tim - that's great!
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  #54  
Old 01-20-2012, 02:08 PM
wonkaticket wonkaticket is offline
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Classic Ted Z.

LMAO, Only in Net54 land! Can Ted go from busting Tim’s chops about not having a card (Sovereign Crawford Throwing 150) on a list that Ted swears up & down does exist.

To using the same card (Crawford Throwing Sovereign 150) that is in fact not confirmed (after he had to be told by Art & Brian) to pick apart Tim in this thread exactly one month later.

Love it!

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...reign+Crawford

12-20-2011 #55

“(2)....I'm quite skeptical of your claim that Crawford (throwing) "was not printed with a SOVEREIGN 150 back". My experience in completing a SOVEREIGN 402-card set (and since, going for a Master set) indicates that 12 (perhaps more) SOVEREIGN 150/350 subjects were Short-Printed with respect to their SOVEREIGN 150 backs.”
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  #55  
Old 01-20-2012, 02:44 PM
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Your...... "This Sovereign checklist is thought to be the original 150 subjects in the set " ...... What is your evidence of this hypothesis of yours ?

You appear to be stuck on (or perhaps, carried away) with the fact that the exact number of 150-subjects in the SOVEREIGN 150 press run is something "magic".
And, if I understand you....Are you really saying that the printing of the SOVEREIGN 150 cards preceded the printing of the PIEDMONT 150 & SWEET CAPORAL
150 (Factory 25 & 30) cards ?

1st....the Jennings (portrait) card contradicts your "thought", as it was printed ONLY with a PIEDMONT 150 back (NO SOVEREIGN 150 back....NO SWEET CAPORAL
150 back....NO HINDU back). This lone PIEDMONT 150 card of Jennings does not jive with your "SOVEREIGN 150 hypothesis".

2nd....the Crawford (throwing) card was printed with the PIEDMONT 150 back and the SWEET CAPORAL 150 backs....but, NO HINDU or SOVEREIGN 150 backs. The
logical timeline here regarding the Crawford & Jennings cards suggests to us that American Litho. printed the HINDU and SOVEREIGN (150 series) cards subsequent
to the PIEDMONT and SWEET CAP cards.

Furthermore, your claim that Wagner & Plank were printed subsequent to the SOVEREIGN 150 cards, absolutely makes NO logical sense....for, if this was so,
Wagner and Plank would exist with SOVEREIGN 150 backs. What is your timeline for the SOVEREIGN 150 printing ?

What we know of the T206 timeline, circa May 1909 was the first release of the 150 series cards. Then, followed by circa August 1909 release of the HINDU cards.
Now, we would like to know what your release dates are with respect to the introduction of the PIEDMONT 150, SWEET CAPORAL 150 and the SOVEREIGN 150 cards ?


TED Z
John

What the hell is a matter with you, lately ? ?

You have a habit of being confused about what people have posted on this forum.


I simply asked Tim a few questions here that have nothing to do with me questionong the Crawford (throwing) with a Sovereign 150 back.

Or, do we have to make an appointment thru you first....before we dare ask Tim a question ! ! ! ! ? ? ? ?


FYI....Art Martineau contacted me and convinced me this Crawford card does not exist and I acknowledged this in another thread.

For years I thought it might exist since Brian Weisner had identified this Crawford card with a Sovereign 150 back in Bill Brown's Super Set spreadsheet.

Recently, Brian acknowledged that this was a mistake.


Hey Tim....could you please answer my above questions ?

And, several of us would like to know what T206 backs are on this COLLAGE that you referred to ?







TED Z
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  #56  
Old 01-20-2012, 02:47 PM
wonkaticket wonkaticket is offline
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Speaking of not answering questions where's this Magie of yours?

John
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  #57  
Old 01-20-2012, 03:10 PM
wonkaticket wonkaticket is offline
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Ted,

Nothing wrong with me thanks for asking.

My comprehension skills are just fine I read what you type and I ask questions. I’m not the one who changes his tune each week to fit a new wacky theory that pops into your head. It’s hard to keep track of all of your theories BTW but I do my best. Nah you can ask Tim anything he always responds and is very nice about it too.

Funny you have asked Tim to answer your questions you have yet to answer my questions in this thread post #37 comes to mind. Don’t worry Ted I know why you avoided answering them it would be hard to make something up to cover that pile of fairy dust you tossed out. No worries...

“FYI....Art Martineau contacted me and convinced me this Crawford card does not exist and I acknowledged this in another thread.”

I saw that thread it’s above….funny. It’s a shame Art didn’t tell you about that card not being confirmed or the mistake Brian pointed out on the super set before you lied about owning it and having 151 cards in a 150 card Sovereign set huh?



http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=144282

“Therefore...... 156 - 5 = 151 and, indeed there are 151 cards in my SOVEREIGN set with the "SOVEREIGN 150 Subjects" printed on their backs” Post #31

You should really run some of your fish tales thru other folks prior to making up stories in the future. Perhaps now you can use the many T206 websites available to research your next tall tale that should make making stuff up easier and more effective.

Good luck with your next story can’t wait!

John

Last edited by wonkaticket; 01-20-2012 at 03:28 PM.
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  #58  
Old 01-20-2012, 03:10 PM
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Edited: Thanks, guys. Re-reading this thread multiple times, I think everything's been said, re-said, rebutted several times, etc.

Thanks for patiently answering my questions.

Carry on!
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  #59  
Old 01-20-2012, 03:17 PM
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Good afternoon Ted,

That is a Chris Browne & Co generated image, I require author credit on all reposts of my images.

Sincerely CB
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  #60  
Old 01-20-2012, 03:25 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
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Default Hey Net54er's check this out......

Here's a guy (the Wonka dude), who several year ago picked up Scott Moseley and me and we visited with Hank and Scott Levy and Jerry Totino at the Levy's house.

We had a great time talking about and showing off our T206 collections. And, Scott Levy provided some great food.

I brought my all-SOVEREIGN set with me and everyone flipped thru the plastic pages in my album and looked at my graded SOVEREIGN's and thought it was a cool set,
really cool.

Several months later I was set-up at the old Philly Show in Reading, PA. The Wonka man came over to see me with his wife. He noticed that I had my SOVEREIGN set
on the table and asked to see my set again. Then he showed the set to his wife.

OK....all that is fine, or is it ?


A few months ago, Wonka posted on this forum that he doubted that I have a complete 402-card SOVEREIGN set (+ the 6 super-prints with SOVEREIGN 460 backs). But people....there are witnesses who saw him see this set on two occasions ! ?

Hey Net54er's, you can try and figure what's going on here......I don't get it.

All I can say is......John get a "grip".......this obsession of yours is getting the best of you.

Anyhow....John....you will NOT see any more cards (or sets) from my collection. I'm through dealing with you.


TED Z
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  #61  
Old 01-20-2012, 03:44 PM
wonkaticket wonkaticket is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
Anyhow....John....you will NOT see any more cards (or sets) from my collection. I'm through dealing with you.TED Z
That’s very convenient and should work out well for you Ted especially given your history of tall tales of cards you don’t own.

You’re right Ted we all were collecting pals even more distributing for your constant need to make up stuff. No obsession other than I get tired of seeing you post bad info and tell tall tales of items that you don’t own. I don’t think it’s fair or right. You have nobody to blame but yourself. I’m only reposting claims you have made that have fallen flat or been proven to be outright fabrications. This misery or issues you see with me doing this is and always will be a bed of your own making.

Feel free to twist in an attempt to take what I have posted in a different direction anyone who can read can see you have once again made a claim to own something you don’t. That’s all and that’s the bigger question folks should be asking. Why does Ted do this to himself why make up stores of 151 cards when you have 150 why?

John
a.k.a. "The Wonka Dude"
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  #62  
Old 01-20-2012, 06:34 PM
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Ted - Your questions alone show that you and I are essentially speaking two different languages concerning how the T206 set was produced. If we can not agree on the basic foundations of the set, then discussing almost any other aspect of the set is an exercise in futility. With that said I will do my best to answer your questions.

Lets start with these questions.

1st....the Jennings (portrait) card contradicts your "thought", as it was printed ONLY with a PIEDMONT 150 back (NO SOVEREIGN 150 back....NO SWEET CAPORAL
150 back....NO HINDU back). This lone PIEDMONT 150 card of Jennings does not jive with your "SOVEREIGN 150 hypothesis".

2nd....the Crawford (throwing) card was printed with the PIEDMONT 150 back and the SWEET CAPORAL 150 backs....but, NO HINDU or SOVEREIGN 150 backs. The
logical timeline here regarding the Crawford & Jennings cards suggests to us that American Litho. printed the HINDU and SOVEREIGN (150 series) cards subsequent
to the PIEDMONT and SWEET CAP cards.


The way your presenting my opinion with your concepts of the set is not accurate. Your presenting the timeline of the printing of each back brand as if it only happened once during the series. So if a card is possible with a Piedmont 150 back than it must have been printed in the first offering of the set. We don't believe that this was true for all backs. We do believe that Sovereign was only produced during the early part of the 150 Series and was not printed again later. We do believe that Hindu was only printed at the end of the 150 Series and not in the early offerings. But we do believe that Piedmont and Sweet Caporal were printed more than one time throughout the 150 Series.

So a subject like Crawford could have been absent from the initial offering of Piedmont, Sovereign and Sweet Caporal, but still have been printed later in the 150 Series with Sweet Caporal and Piedmont backs.

The same situations apply to the Jennings card. In both cases you are asking for an explanation for why they're absent in the Hindu set. That's a great question? Why did ATC/ALC not print a large portion of the available subjects with Hindu backs? They definitely intended to print them with Hindu, just as they intended to print all 48 southern league subjects, but they didn't. The advertisements clearly state 150 Subjects, yet they only printed 102. These two subjects aren't unique in being excluded from that offering, a 1/3 of the major-league subjects didn't get printed with this back. So the fact that they aren't found with a Hindu back has no bearing on this issue. (IMO)

Furthermore, your claim that Wagner & Plank were printed subsequent to the SOVEREIGN 150 cards, absolutely makes NO logical sense....for, if this was so, Wagner
and Plank would exist with SOVEREIGN 150 backs. What is your timeline for the SOVEREIGN 150 printing ?


As I stated before we believe that the initial offering of cards in the early summer of 1909 were only the original 150 subjects. Wagner and Plank were not part of this printing. If they had been they would have been printed with a Sovereign 150 back. We believe when they were first added to the set they were included with a Sweet Caporal offering for factories 25 and 30. After that when they began to print them with a Piedmont back they were removed prior to being distributed.

Earlier in this thread I discussed how Sweet Caporal and Piedmont are extremely complicated to decipher because unlike Sovereign and Hindu they weren't offered for a limited time. During the 350 Series Piedmont adds ran once a week from February to August advertising that baseball cards were included in each pack. I don't believe this lengthy distribution was accomplished with a single production of Piedmont backed cards, but rather repeated printings of this back throughout the series. We believe the same holds true for the 150 series.

You appear to be stuck on (or perhaps, carried away) with the fact that the exact number of 150-subjects in the SOVEREIGN 150 press run is something "magic".
And, if I understand you....Are you really saying that the printing of the SOVEREIGN 150 cards preceded the printing of the PIEDMONT 150 & SWEET CAPORAL
150 (Factory 25 & 30) cards ?


I hope I've cleared up the printing of the various backs so you'll understand I'm not saying that the Sovereign set proceeded Piedmont and Sweet Caporal. I am saying that I believe that additional printings of Piedmont and Sweet Caporal followed the Sovereign printing.

And, several of us would like to know what T206 backs are on this COLLAGE that you referred to ?

If anything that I've said has made sense up to this point, you'll know the answer to this question.

I hope this clears up any of the confusion about what I believe.
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  #63  
Old 01-20-2012, 06:46 PM
wonkaticket wonkaticket is offline
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Ted let me know if you need the Cliff Clavin notes on the above.
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  #64  
Old 01-20-2012, 07:59 PM
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Ted let me know if you need the Cliff Clavin notes on the above.
John, my local pub is nothing but Cliff Clavins.

Yes, it's a Cliff Bar.
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  #65  
Old 01-20-2012, 08:50 PM
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Tim,
Your presentation makes a lot of sense to me and I appreciate all the hard work you and others have put into this. I have a question about the Plank. It makes sense that Wagner and Plank were late additions to the 150 series and only distributed with Sweet Cap backs. Both have what appear to be a few handcut examples with Piedmont 150 backs. In the case of the Wagner, it makes sense that these were pulled from distribution right away and never made it into Piedmont packs. But we know that Plank continued into the 350 series, at least for a very short time. How would you explain the existence of a pulled 150 Piedmont Plank that then gets continued in the 350 series?

My guess is that since there seems to be some evidence to suggest the Wagner and Plank 150's were on the same sheet that when Wagner protested, since not many of those Piedmont sheets had been printed, they just trashed them rather than try to individually pull Wagners out. So a few Plank 150s and a couple Wagner 150s made their way to the hobby. Wagner production was then done, but Plank continued for a short period after the switch to 350. Does that seem probable? I would love to hear your thoughts.
Thanks,
JimB
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  #66  
Old 01-20-2012, 08:52 PM
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And one more question:

Do you think that the number of Wagner SC 150s and the number of Plank SC 150s is roughly the same with the Plank 350s accounting for the slightly larger number of extant Planks than Wagners?
JimB
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  #67  
Old 01-21-2012, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
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Tim,
Your presentation makes a lot of sense to me and I appreciate all the hard work you and others have put into this. I have a question about the Plank. It makes sense that Wagner and Plank were late additions to the 150 series and only distributed with Sweet Cap backs. Both have what appear to be a few handcut examples with Piedmont 150 backs. In the case of the Wagner, it makes sense that these were pulled from distribution right away and never made it into Piedmont packs. But we know that Plank continued into the 350 series, at least for a very short time. How would you explain the existence of a pulled 150 Piedmont Plank that then gets continued in the 350 series?

My guess is that since there seems to be some evidence to suggest the Wagner and Plank 150's were on the same sheet that when Wagner protested, since not many of those Piedmont sheets had been printed, they just trashed them rather than try to individually pull Wagners out. So a few Plank 150s and a couple Wagner 150s made their way to the hobby. Wagner production was then done, but Plank continued for a short period after the switch to 350. Does that seem probable? I would love to hear your thoughts.
Thanks,
JimB
Hi Jim - I think you and I are in agreement. I believe the reason that the Piedmont 150 sheets were pulled was to remove the Wagner. In doing so Plank was removed from the Piedmont 150 distribution as well but his subject wasn't discontinued at that point.

From the point that the Piedmont sheets were removed until the next printing of Plank was an interesting time in the print group 1 production. Here's how we explain the progression of the Plank on the site.

After the Piedmont 150 printing in which the Plank cards were not distributed, several more printings took place that did not include the Plank card. The first was for distribution with Hindu brand cigarettes. In total, 102 major-league subjects were printed at this time, with a third of the available subjects, including Plank, not being printed. The next printing was for the transition of the set from the 150 to the 350 series, with subjects being printed with Piedmont 350 and El Principe De Gales backs. Of the available subjects that could be printed at this time, just more than half were included and just less than half were not printed. Again, Plank was in this large no-print group. Of these two print runs, many subjects from print group 1 were absent from one or the other, with a group of subjects that included Plank being absent from both.

The next printing was for Sweet Caporal 350 No.30 and included Plank. After the distribution of Plank cards with this back, no additional cards of his were printed. It is not known if a cease and desist of some kind was presented to the companies responsible for the set or if they simply chose to remove the card on their own.


Quote:
Originally Posted by E93 View Post
And one more question:

Do you think that the number of Wagner SC 150s and the number of Plank SC 150s is roughly the same with the Plank 350s accounting for the slightly larger number of extant Planks than Wagners?
JimB
I've been looking at the Plank and Wagner numbers for a while now and from what I can tell the Wagner and Plank SC 150 numbers are relatively the same. I don't want to go into too much detail on this as I haven't had a chance to speak to John and a few others yet to discuss it in more detail.

Yes, I believe the additional printing of the Plank with a 350 back accounts for there being more Planks than Wagner's.
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  #68  
Old 01-21-2012, 07:33 AM
tedzan tedzan is offline
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Hey John

The PIEDMONT brand was ATC's "flagship" tobacco product. Followed by the SWEET CAPORAL brand. Therefore, these original 12 subjects
were first printed with these two advertising brands. Actually three backs, since at that point in time SWEET CAPORAL production was split
between two Factory's (#25 and #30).

The Wagner "controversy" occurred Spring/Summer of 1909 when the first SWEET CAPORAL cards were in circulation and American Litho.
removed his card very quickly.

Now, the yanking of the Plank most likely occurred concurrently with the removal of the Wagner card for either of the following reasons......

1....It is a documented fact that Eddie Plank was anti-tobacco. Most likely he followed Wagner's actions and informed ATC to remove his
card from circulation. Eddie was a low-keyed guy and did not receive the fanfare that Wagner got. A simple "cease & desist" order accom-
plished this back in those days.

2....Or, the Plank cards were simply discarded along with the Wagner's when they were discarded. I base this scenario on the statement that
was made when the "Gretzy Wagner" was being shopped around in the mid-1980's at the Willow Grove show......that it originally was cut from
a panel of which the Plank card was adjacent to it. This info went "underground" for many years. But, it recently was revealed when Charlie
Conlon's PIEDMONT Plank surfaced in the REA auction.

In any event, the brown HINDU and SOVEREIGN press runs were subsequent to the PIEDMONT and SWEET CAPORAL press runs. And, by then
the situation regarding Wagner (and perhaps Plank) was over and done with....they were discontinued.

The HINDU tobacco products were produced at Factory #649 in Rochester, NY. ATC refurbished and modernized the old Kimball plant and this
plant was in operation in the Summer of 1909.


T-Rex TED


JimB

Thanks for agreeing with me on what I have already presented here earlier in this Thread in Post #13......in my 2nd point regarding the Eddie Plank card........

" 2....Or, the Plank cards were simply discarded along with the Wagner's when they were discarded. "


TED Z
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Old 01-21-2012, 07:35 AM
barrysloate barrysloate is offline
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Tim- I had a run quite a few years back when I handled four Planks within a period of 2-3 years. And if memory serves, they were all 350's. In fact, I can't recall ever handling a 150.
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Old 01-21-2012, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrysloate View Post
Tim- I had a run quite a few years back when I handled four Planks within a period of 2-3 years. And if memory serves, they were all 350's. In fact, I can't recall ever handling a 150.
Hi Barry - John's makes a good case for their being more 350 Planks than 150. I don't have any reason at this time to think that he isn't correct. The only two points I was addressing in my last post was that I don't think there are more Wagner SC 150's than Plank SC 150's. And that the additional Sweet Caporal 350 printing of Plank is why there are more examples of Planks overall than Wagner's.
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  #71  
Old 01-21-2012, 07:48 AM
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I agree Tim. The only thing that makes the Plank more available is that it had a second print run.

P.S.- I don't want you to think I forgot about yout email, but I couldn't come up with any fresh T206 articles. Sorry.

Last edited by barrysloate; 01-21-2012 at 07:49 AM.
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Old 01-21-2012, 10:34 AM
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Tim, if I'm reading this correctly, what you just said was an explanation of various 350 printings that did NOT include Plank, so nothing new related to Plank. Unless I'm missing something, we already know his card wasn't printed with EPDG or Hindu back, or Piedmont 350 backs. Was that ever in question?
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Old 01-21-2012, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Runscott View Post
Tim, if I'm reading this correctly, what you just said was an explanation of various 350 printings that did NOT include Plank, so nothing new related to Plank. Unless I'm missing something, we already know his card wasn't printed with EPDG or Hindu back, or Piedmont 350 backs. Was that ever in question?
In answering Jim's questions I wasn't trying to explain which backs Plank can and can not be found with. As you said that's pretty common knowledge. What I was trying to do was explain the possible printing progression and explain why there was a period of time that Plank seems to be absent from the set between the unreleased Piedmont 150 and Sweet Caporal 350 printings.
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Last edited by Abravefan11; 01-21-2012 at 10:46 AM.
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Old 01-21-2012, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abravefan11 View Post
In answering Jim's questions I wasn't trying to explain which backs Plank can and can not be found with. As you said that's pretty common knowledge. What I was trying to do was explain the possible printing progression and explain why there was a period of time that Plank seems to be absent from the set between the unreleased Piedmont 150 and Sweet Caporal 350 printings.
Thanks. Okay, I get it. I am VERY dense when it comes to these print run explanations - I have read them over and over, and all the info on card replacements, timing, etc., is for the most part going right by me.

It's probably best that I concentrate on the Plank/Wagner theories.

Quote:
Originally Posted by E93
How would you explain the existence of a pulled 150 Piedmont Plank that then gets continued in the 350 series?

My guess is that since there seems to be some evidence to suggest the Wagner and Plank 150's were on the same sheet that when Wagner protested, since not many of those Piedmont sheets had been printed, they just trashed them rather than try to individually pull Wagners out. So a few Plank 150s and a couple Wagner 150s made their way to the hobby. Wagner production was then done, but Plank continued for a short period after the switch to 350. Does that seem probable? I would love to hear your thoughts.
Thanks,
JimB
Can we get a synopsis of Plank and Wagner card number estimates by back? I'm assuming that those who follow such things are in agreement on numbers.

Plank Pied 150:
Wagner Pied 150:
Plank SC 150:
Wagner SC 150:
Plank SC 350:
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Last edited by Runscott; 01-21-2012 at 11:19 AM.
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