NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-19-2006, 06:20 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Something nice in modern baseball

Posted By: warshawlaw

Ichiro has topped 200 hits for the 6th consecutive season. He's over 200 hits every one of his seasons in the majors and needs only 4 more runs to top 100 runs in every season.

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-19-2006, 06:29 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Something nice in modern baseball

Posted By: Patrick McMenemy

Ichiro will look nice in a Red Sox uniform next year!

Patrick

Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-19-2006, 09:14 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Something nice in modern baseball

Posted By: Gilbert Maines

I was going to say that Hornsby did it for ten years. But he didn't. What he did was average over 200 hits per season for ten consecutive years: 1920-1929 = 2080 hits.

Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-23-2006, 03:24 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Something nice in modern baseball

Posted By: Gilbert Maines

Of course, six consecutive seasons with 200 or more hits is nothing to sneeze about, one would think ~ especially from the get go ~ but thats the way this is done!

Ask Boggs who did it seven times from the gitgo,
or Keeler who still holds the record of eight in a row, also from the beginning of his full seasons.

But the truth be told - Suzuki was already a very accomplished baseball player, well before he was even a twinkle in the eye of MLB; but of course, that status certainly does not in the least diminish what he continues to do.

As Warshawlaw says, this is nice!

Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-23-2006, 03:39 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Something nice in modern baseball

Posted By: bill

I know we all have other sports cards so I didn't think
you'd mind
http://www.psacard.com/articles/article_view.chtml?artid=4791&universeid=314</a

Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-23-2006, 03:45 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Something nice in modern baseball

Posted By: Dan Kravitz

Bill- the card looks off centered 60-40. Doesn't look like a 10 to me. I wonder what SGC would grade it? What a joke. That is one bad investment!

Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-23-2006, 04:23 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Something nice in modern baseball

Posted By: Rhys

Ichiro will not leave Seattle. He could have bolted numerous times by now and stays in Seattle because he is comfortable there. I think what many people in America forget is that Seattle is where most japanese players WANT to play, and it has never been about the money for Ichiro. All Seattle needs to do in order to become more popular in Japan is to follow the Angels and call themselves the Tokyo Mariners of Seattle. Ichiro Stays!

Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-23-2006, 04:27 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Something nice in modern baseball

Posted By: Scot Reader


He went over 100 runs scored last night. He's now 6-for-6 in terms of 100 runs scored and 200 hits. He also set an A.L. record this season for most consecutive stolen bases without getting caught. Remarkable consistency. One of my favorite current players. Definitely on his way to Cooperstown.

Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-23-2006, 04:30 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Something nice in modern baseball

Posted By: jay behrens

Just imagine what kind of press he would be getting if he was American

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-23-2006, 04:34 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Something nice in modern baseball

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

And how about the fact that he was voted by his peers to have the best outfield arm in baseball?

Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-26-2006, 09:18 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Something nice in modern baseball

Posted By: dstudeba

The only player in baseball that I will expressly go to a game for.

Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-26-2006, 09:22 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Something nice in modern baseball

Posted By: Josh Adams

I try to get out to see the Mariners play when they come into Chicago solely for Ichiro. What a great player. I love watching him hit.

Go Go White Sox
2005 World Series Champions!

Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-26-2006, 10:51 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Something nice in modern baseball

Posted By: Jason

Ichiro does have one of the finest outfield arms in the game...I never thought much of him either way until I attended a Yankees game in 2003. Amazing seats (the only way I'll go to a Yankees game), 10 rows behind 1st base.
A Yankee flies out to right (Ichiro). A Yankee on 3rd starts toward home (and stops) and Ichiro uncorks a throw to the plate that I will remember until the day I die (which of course, will be more amazing the longer I live). I swear I could hear it slicing through the air, and it had no arc. You could not see an arc on this throw. It zipped straight past us and smacked into the catcher's glove as though it were a perfect strike (right at the catcher's knee level, 3rd base side of the plate).
I couldn't help it, I let out a shreik like a little girl at the play...never seen anything like it

Amazing talent

Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-26-2006, 11:18 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Something nice in modern baseball

Posted By: Tom Boblitt

the numbers say what they say....Rose had 200 hits 10 times and averaged 200 hits from 1965-1980 - a 16 year period.

Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-26-2006, 11:30 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Something nice in modern baseball

Posted By: Jason

earned his spot in baseball history, no doubt.
But to many people, he will only be remembered as that guy crashing into the catcher, a liar who bet on baseball and hung out with thugs, and the silliest looking player in an Expos uni...

Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-26-2006, 11:51 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Something nice in modern baseball

Posted By: Bob

I wish I could say Ichiro would be right at home playing for the Twins next year I hate you big market team fans, you get to do so much scheming and dreaming.
By the way the Piranha's magic number for the playoffs is 2. This is the most incredible one season turnaround since the 1914 Braves. I wonder if the ChiSox or Tigers said about the Twins in June, "Are they still in the league?"

Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-26-2006, 11:59 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Something nice in modern baseball

Posted By: Gilbert Maines

That's some stat, Tom. I did not realize that Rose did that. 16 consecutive years averaging over 200 hits/season!
That's a long stretch to simply keep your at bats up.

Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-26-2006, 01:21 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Something nice in modern baseball

Posted By: walkscott

Jay, I don't think anyone would argue - Ichiro would get far less press if he were American.

Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-26-2006, 01:21 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Something nice in modern baseball

Posted By: warshawlaw

I recall being at a Dodgers game a few years ago and watching Shawn Green hammer a throw like that; straight arrow on a line from deep right at Dodgers stadium to the plate on the fly. He had a cannon out there, which is why they tried to make him a first baseman. I know, that's harsh, but having watched them bumble away a lead to the D-Backs Saturday night (and having spent $$ for the privilege), I am not in a merciful mood.

Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 09-26-2006, 01:27 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Something nice in modern baseball

Posted By: walkscott

Another guy with an awesome arm is Jeff Francouer - that guy is flat-out exciting to have on a team....plus, he actually seems to enjoy playing baseball!

Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 09-26-2006, 10:03 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Something nice in modern baseball

Posted By: jay behrens

The best outfield arm I ever saw was Ellis Valentine. He had an absolute cannon and if not for being hit in the head with an errant pitch, would have had a hell of a career. Just imagine a long term outfiled that would have featured Dawon, Raines and Valentine.

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 09-26-2006, 10:56 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Something nice in modern baseball

Posted By: Brett

You guys have to remember Ichiro averages almost 700 at bats per season. Its not going to be THAT tough to get 200 hits if you get so many at bats. Hes a good player, but come on, many players in the majors would get 200 hits given they have close to 700 at bats. If you see the standings for the top 10 averages in the both leagues, Ichiro has about 100 + more at bats than everyone......

Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 09-26-2006, 11:26 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Something nice in modern baseball

Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

Those 700 at bats a season (actually an average of 680 at bats for his first five seasons) are a testament to his conditioning and training. That and the fact that he's a leadoff hitter is one reason why he gets so many at bats.

Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 09-27-2006, 02:10 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Something nice in modern baseball

Posted By: davidcycleback

Ichiro is very good, not great, batter, who steals a good number of bases, is a great
fielder and plays close to every game (less than 3 games missed per year).

When he came to Seattle, I was surprised to see he was such a good fielder with a cannon for an arm. He's a string bean, and my vision of an outfielder with a cannon for an arm was the Dave Parker/Andre Dawson-types.

Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 09-27-2006, 10:19 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Something nice in modern baseball

Posted By: Dave Rey

Ichiro gets nearly 700 ABs every year because he refuses to walk. He is not a good leadoff hitter unless he's hitting around .350 because he's only on base if he hits a single -- which are all he hits, as he's only get 35 extra-base hits in his 678 ABs thus far this season.

His current batting average is .320 with an on base average of only .368...

I'm not complaining too much, though -- my Mariners are lucky to have him, if only for how fun he can be to watch.

Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 09-27-2006, 10:48 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Something nice in modern baseball

Posted By: David Smith

I will tell you what, Dave. I will trade you Adam Dunn of the Cincinnati Reds straight up for Ichiro.

Dunn is younger than Ichiro and makes less money. Dunn usually hits 40 or more Home Runs a year with 100 Runs, 100 RBI and 100 Walks.


David

Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 09-27-2006, 10:53 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Something nice in modern baseball

Posted By: walkscott

I would take Dunn for Ichiro in a flash. But the Mariners would not - Ichiro is a huge drawing card in Seattle for reasons listed in prior posts. In Cincinnati he would just be an overpaid lead-off hitter.

The Mariners would have to toss in Sexton as well, and the Reds could add someone speedy with a decent average, from the minors (preferabley Japanese).

Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 09-27-2006, 11:06 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Something nice in modern baseball

Posted By: David Smith

Walkscot, I wish you were Seattles GM!! I am a Reds fan and you should see how other fans on the Reds chat board talk about Dunn and wish he were gone.

He is hitting .237, has 13 errors and has struck out 186 times. He hit like .180 in August (when the Reds were still in it and needed offense so as to pass the Cardinals for First Place) and less than .200 so far in September.

As a Reds fan, I would LOVE to have Ichiro. He has the batting average, speed and defense the Reds need. If I were the Reds manager and had Ichiro, I would bat him third in the line-up. Batting third, I think Ichiro could have a year like Alan Trammell did with the Tigers in 1984; over .300 average and 100 RBI's.

David

Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 09-27-2006, 11:12 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Something nice in modern baseball

Posted By: Dave Rey

I'd take the Dunn trade, even though he is hitting just .237, he's more valuable offensively than Ichiro. He's only scored 8 less runs than Ichiro, creates more runs overall per outs and next year will be going into his peak season at 27 years of age.

Dunn's likely stats for next year will be about .255 BA 48 HR 110 RUNS 115 WALKS with an OPS around .950. Heck he's even a good percentage player on the basepaths, Dunn is 7 for 7 on steals this year.

Dunn isn't all that great as a fielder, and those 12 errors in left field are a ridiculous amount, but his bat makes up for that. We'd probably miss Ichiro's arm in right, which acts as a deterrent on opponents trying to score or take the extra base when the ball in hit to right.

Of course, Ichiro also has value beyond his actual baseball value. He is a drawing card and he makes the Mariners the most desirable team for future Japanese imports.

Mariner fans that don't understand how to gauge on-field performance value would also throw a tantrum for the ages if we traded Ichiro for Dunn.

I'd still do it, though. Ichiro will be 33 next year and he is already showing signs of slipping at the plate -- if he drops down to being just a .290-.300 hitter, his offensive value is negligible -- he'd become the modern day Mickey Rivers at the plate.

Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 09-27-2006, 12:09 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Something nice in modern baseball

Posted By: davidcycleback

Seattle has a large Asian population and social presence, and the Mariners ownership has a strong Japanese influence. A former co-wner was Japanese, and the current owner is Nintendo of America. So Japanese players may feel they will be comfortable in Seattle.

Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 09-27-2006, 12:21 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Something nice in modern baseball

Posted By: runscott

Admittedly, I would be a sorry GM - I don't even have the patience for fantasy baseball.

I didn't realize that Adam Dunn was such a non-clutch player - I don't follow the Reds too closely.

Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 09-27-2006, 02:37 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Something nice in modern baseball

Posted By: David Smith

Runscot, it OK. I was just seeing what non-Cincinnati Reds fans thought of Dunn. Like I said before, most people on the Reds board are tired of Dunn, especially his Strike Outs and his poor defense and don't think he is very desirable as far as trade bait goes.

I am tired of Dunn also but think that a trade to an AL team would get close to equal value for him because he could DH, therefor reducing his defensive liability. I LOVE Ichiro as a player. I guess because he reminds me of the Deadball Era players--usually a .330 or higher Average and 40-50 Stolen Bases.

Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 09-27-2006, 04:11 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Something nice in modern baseball

Posted By: Dave Rey

Playing dead-ball era style baseball in today's baseball may be charming but it isn't something that is going to equate into won/loss success.

First of all, during the dead ball era, lets say 1906-08 NL, where the league batting averages where, .244 in '06; .243 in '07; and .239 in '08, only a couple players hit over .300 and only one hit in the .330+ range with any regularity and that was Wagner.

Ichiro's high averages are in a climate where the league batting average is around .270 (like it was the year he hit .372).

Doing some quick contextual adjustments (without doing any park adjustments, which would further make my point):

Honus Wagner hit .354 in 1908, when the rest of the league hit .239 -- in the context of 2004 AL (Ichiro's big .372 season), that translates to .400.

Ichiro's .372 in 2004 translates to .329 in the context of 1908.

Plus, Wagner's slugging (within the context of his time) is quantum leaps above Ichiro.

Ichiro is essentialy playing dead ball baseball and that is one of the reasons the M's are mediocre/bad -- he is supposedly our best player...

I haven't done the math, but my guess is Dunn and an average right fielder (Chris Snelling, for example) in place of Ichiro would predictably increase the Mariners' runs they create and up their overall W/L.

It would be a good trade on the field for the M's -- but the off-the-field and PR ramifications basically ensure the M's would never make that trade.

It's silly though, because, the way he is going, essentially we're a year or two away from Ichiro just being Mickey Rivers...

Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 09-27-2006, 05:03 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Something nice in modern baseball

Posted By: David Smith

Well, Mickey is much better than Joan


David

Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 09-27-2006, 05:43 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Something nice in modern baseball

Posted By: warshawlaw

Hitting .300 is very hard to do. Hitting better than .300 every year over a long career is very impressive. I think he rates quite a bit better than most people make him out to be. Ichiro's 162 game average over the first five years of his career is:

692 AB 114 R 230 H 27 Doubles 8 Triples 11 Homers 63 RBI 39 SB 47 Walks .332 BA .377 OB%

I see a HOFer in the making not a Mickey Rivers. Put anyone worth a damn in the 2-3-4 spots and the guy's gonna score 140 runs a year.

Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 09-27-2006, 06:32 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Something nice in modern baseball

Posted By: Dave Rey

G 147 AB 630 R 96 H 210 DB 32 TR 6 HR 7 RBI 60 SB 18 CS 7 BB 20 K 34 BA .333 OBA .353 SLG .437

G 138 AB 565 R 79 H 184 DB 18 TR 5 HR 12 RBI 69 SB 22 CS 14 BB 18 K 45 BA .326 OBA .350 SLG .439

G 137 AB 590 R 95 H 184 DB 31 TR 8 HR 8 RBI 67 SB 43 CS 7 BB 13 K 51 BA .312 OBA .327 SLG .432

Ichiro stats?

No, Mickey Rivers' three best years. Would fit right into Ichiro's career lines. They are already very similar offensive players, the difference is Rivers' only played about 140 games per year.

Ichiro is overrated offensively.

And hitting .300 is sometimes easy (see 1930) and sometimes very hard (see 1968). Ichiro has been playing in a time period where hitting .300 is nothing super special.

Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 09-27-2006, 07:04 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Something nice in modern baseball

Posted By: Gilbert Maines

Suzuki is no leadoff hitter, his OBP is too low. But behind the right guy, he is a near perfect #2 batter: lefty - hits behind the runner, hits for average and stolen base threat. Only problem is his Ks are a little high.

Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
1st childrens book on "modern" baseball Archive Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum incl. Game Used 9 06-14-2007 01:52 PM
modern baseball Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 20 09-27-2006 08:56 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:50 AM.


ebay GSB