Question for the T206 experts

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Posted By: ErikV

Here's a question for those familiar with the T206 set.

What are the probabilities of a new Demmitt or Doyle type of variation card being discovered in today's hobby? As I recall the Doyle variation was discovered in the '80's. That would put the T206 set at approx. 70 year old range at that time. It is my guess that when the Doyle card was newly discovered, most collectors figured that there were no other additional cards left to be found.

Has this set and all of it's cards been accounted for or is there still a mystery card yet to be found?

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Posted By: Dave

This question probably for the likes of Ted, William, Brian or Barry....but I don't think I'd be too surprised if someone finds another variation of a card or two in the set. I think with T206's nothing is surprising.

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Posted By: Dylan

I think you will see the occasional misprint or the like show up, but for some new (back, team, or otherwise) variation of some sort to show up would be very improbable at this point. Unless there's some hoard a person involved in the production process of T206s left sitting around in his family basement.
But there's certainly far more informed then me on this board.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I agree with Dylan on this one- you might find an error caused by a crack in a printing plate, where all or part of a letter would be missing. Also, new color variations could be found, such as the red ink missing from a card. But the probability of finding an error such as Doyle, which was the result of a second print run, is pretty unlikely.

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Posted By: MVSNYC

agreed...

almost impossible now...especially with the explosion of collecting in the 1980's (many discoveries in that decade)...

maybe some more printing freaks or color variations might be found...but very very unlikely to find undiscovered cards at this point.

MS

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Posted By: Dave

And I was hoping I'd find that T206 of Shoeless Joe in some off the road antique store in the mountains of North Carolina....maybe even with the Carolina Brights back....damn

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Posted By: barrysloate

Since Joe Jackson was playing for New Orleans and would have been a Southern leaguer, finding him with a Carolina Brights back would be pretty difficult.

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Posted By: Dave

i'll take that as I'm being difficult..and should be happy finding him with an old mill back? LOL

edited to say on the hopes I do find this card, I'll start taking offers to buy it for $50,000.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Shoeless Joe, as I'm sure you know, played very few games his first 3 years (1908-1910).
Then in 1911 he was in 147 games and batted .408. By early 1911, production of the T206
set was completed.

There is also another factor that I have theorized, and that is American Caramel (E90-1)
beat T206 to the "punch" and owned the rights to portray him. His first 2 years was with
the Phila. A's.....Am. Caramel's hometown player.

TED Z

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Posted By: Dave

Is there any knowledge as to why he played so few games for the three year span? I could see the first year..but would have thought he would have been a full time player by the next. Was it something like he was working outside of baseball as far as a job?

As far as the other company owning the rights...would that have been common for a ballplayer that wasn't yet a superstar?

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Posted By: barrysloate

Dave- if you find a T206 of Joe Jackson, I will walk to your house with a check for 50K

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Posted By: Dave

Long walk to Atlanta....better put on your jogging pants...

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

In another Thread, the "My Plank theory....", I discuss the possible contention between
Am. Car and ATC regarding not only Plank, Collins, Joe Jax, but lesser Phila. A's players.

Check it out....it's just my theory....but, as this Thread developed, there were very inte-
resting facts that were brought out that tend to support my conjecture regarding this
player "rivalry".....most of which were the result of Frank Wakefield's great research.

TED Z

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Posted By: Jason L

with $65,000 in small bills!!!

legal disclaimer: this is neither an offer to buy, nor an indication that I actually have that kind of cash available, in small bills or otherwise, on my person or even in close proximity to my person.

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Posted By: Joe D.

because I bid 65,500 for the T206 Joe Jackson.

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Posted By: barrysloate

If we get an auction going we are going to force Dave to come up with the card!

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Posted By: Jason L

that he produce the goods. and I would like to see it in a SGC holder, as well.

I would also like to add that I may drive, as I am not in the best of shape after the recent holiday season.

Go Bears!

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Posted By: Tom Hines

I think if you make Dave produce the T206 Joe Jax then he should also provide scans of the PSA 10 Wagner he found in the same abandoned trunk, from his uncles house (that never really collected cards) and needs to sell to pay for the dire surgery of his twice removed third cousin. Pending a "lot" sale of the Jax and PSA 10 Wagner I would bid $69,000.00

(In the extremely unlikely chance that a PSA 10 Wagner and T206 Jackson (graded) surfaced and were auctioned here on net54 as a lot I would make good my offer {just protecting myself from the lawyer types}).

Tom

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Posted By: barry arnold

I still believe that there are folks who have a treasure or two hidden away
that will still surprise us. I think they are smiling right now as they
look at their precious variation, wondering whimsically why we give
up on the mysterium tremendum (at least in the vintage card realm) so
quickly. Perhaps they will come on the board with anonymity for a brief moment and tell us what they have, then quietly retreat-surreptitiously-into
vintage bliss.

I'd better go back to work.

(By the way Dave,I was an Emory fella many years---glad to see that you're an
Atlantan!)

all the best,

barry

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Posted By: Dave

Cool Barry...very familiar with Emory. (for anyone that doesn't know that means Barry is quite smart)
Tom...I've already exhausted every avenue possible as far as relatives, friends, and parole officers for the pre-mentioned items to be found in any trunk....therefore it will have to be done in the Carolina mountains on a weekend trip. I'll have to put up with my wife looking at the crap in the antique stores as I only walk around in seach of more important items.

By the way...in the event I do find the Jackson (and I suppose a Wagner with it) I'll have to let a few more "auctions" run thier courses here before deciding to go this route above the auction houses.

On a more serious note...does anyone know where the Ty Cobb T206's with the Ty Cobb backs were first issued? I think they had the Carolina factory if I'm not mistaken. Were they just issued in North Carolina? Here in Georgia where Ty was from?

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Posted By: barrysloate

I think we already know Barry A. is quite smart- he is our resident professor, and an ethicist no less.

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Posted By: barry arnold

Dave and Barry S.

You are most kind.
I do have some memory of being smart long ago--probably when
i was listening to 'Expecting to Fly'.

I must say that when the university folks ask me about my research and
area of specialization, I am most proud to say Vintage Baseball Cards,
particularly T206s. I don't seem to be getting any raises much the last
few years for some reason.

again, many thanks.

barry

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Posted By: Dave

On a personal note Barry...while indeed Emory is quite prestigious.....you could have always went the route of the Trade School down on North Avenue and become an engineer....ahem

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Posted By: Denny

Lads,
I can honestly say that readin' thru this fine discussion...I completely forgot what the Question related to!? I'm gettin' old minded for be'n only 47.
Or maybe the idea of goin' with Dave to Carolina to search for the Jax Card just mentally swept me away...Hmmmm...Okay, I'll go! When Are we leavin'?

Denny Walsh

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Posted By: Dave

I wouldn't mind....telling my wife though another man would be accompanying us...may be trickier...especially the hotel room arrangements

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Posted By: Art M.

In 1999 Mastro discovered eight previously unlisted T206 proof cards. All the cards featured southern league players and were blank backed (hand cut). These cards all had the proofing stars in the margins.
Since the T206 cards were printed on sheets, and there were more than eight cards per sheet, then we should be hoping to rediscover the other cards from that proof sheet.
I am pretty sure that there are another twenty unlisted southern league proof cards that were issued (at least in proof form), including one player from New Orleans. Not sure if they still exist.
Here are the eight players from that 1999 T206 find:
Alcock, Chattanooga
Dwyer, Jacksonville
Lee, Jacksonville
Mayberry, Danville
Meek, Chattanooga
Osteen, Montgomery
Pepe, Montgomery
Roth, Jacksonville

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Posted By: Seth B.

Art--I assume you're talking about this find: http://www.t206museum.com/page/periodical_20.html. How did you know the names of the players on the proofs?

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Posted By: barrysloate

Dave- when addressing a professor never say "could have always went"; please change that to "could have always gone"

Barry A. "Expecting to Fly"- one of the most beautiful songs on "Buffalo Springfield Again."