Doug Allen to plead guilty.....

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Doug Allen's admission that he runs a "full gouging retail [auction]" where bidders "are pushed to the next level" with a "safe environment to buy" (See excerpt 3:58 through 5:15).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkOLo758vTE

[wonkaticket]

Good video Dan, ahh how to build a world class...

Dan read my post I say no shot at the OP, wasn't aimed at you. Just have heard that a bunch "what will happen to Legendary" from lots of folks that's all my post was about.

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

a "full gouging retail [auction]" where bidders "are pushed to the next level" with a "safe environment to buy"

Here is some of the game used equipment where folks were...ummm how did Doug phrase that....oh that's right "pushed to the next level" if you will.

[keithsky]

Those guys that consigned there high end stuff in Legendarys live auction that was run during the national are you nuts? Why would you take a chance on not getting your money knowing these guys possibly could go to jail or the government cease all there stuff if that would happen. I'm not a lawyer so not sure how all that works but just seems risky even if you were a buyer in that auction

[oldjudge]

Keith--the government doesn't "cease", they "seize". Are you sure you're not a lawyer?

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Keith--the government doesn't "cease", they "seize". Are you sure you're not a lawyer?

Ouch.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Keith--the government doesn't "cease", they "seize". Are you sure you're not a lawyer?

Jay -- "the government" is an it, not a they.

[oldjudge]

With what we have in Washington now i think "they" is appropriate, although if you will spot me an "sh" I will go along with you.

[wonkaticket]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...811-story.html

Why not have two threads up at the top, hopefully Jeff wont mind if so we can discuss over dinner...just talk into my tie Jeff very clearly.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...811-story.html



Why not have two threads up at the top, hopefully Jeff wont mind if so we can discuss over dinner...just talk into my tie Jeff very clearly.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...811-story.html

Why not have two threads up at the top, hopefully Jeff wont mind if so we can discuss over dinner...just talk into my tie Jeff very clearly.

What's better than stealing from all your hobby friends and then ratting out all your hobby friends -- obstructing justice too!

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by calvindog

What's better than stealing from all your hobby friends and then ratting out all your hobby friends -- obstructing justice too!

So funny. Sad but funny.

Guess I know a Plank that will need reviewed again soon. Just remember.





http://www.legendaryauctions.com/Lot...entoryid=35826

The more I read the more I miss these guys.

[wonkaticket]

More Mastro hits...

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=89841

[calvindog]

Here's a good one. Lots of smart people chiming in here:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...light=plancich

[Orioles1954]

Can't believe that was 8 years ago! Time certainly does fly.

[btcarfagno]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Here's a good one. Lots of smart people chiming in here:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...light=plancich

Wow. That thread is a veritable jukebox of ignorance and stupidity.

Tom C

[slidekellyslide]

nevermind....too busy for a pissing contest today.

[keithsky]

To all the consignors and winning bidders in Legendarys live auction this past National, To quote Jay Leno to Hugh Grant " What were you thinking" Sure hope you guys get your money and bidders get your winnngs

[Leon]

Sad things in the hobby. Those culprits will pay a heavy price. I have sympathy for their families..

Accolades to the FBI and other law enforcement. They have helped the hobby immeasurably and I for one am very thankful for them. I hope they keep investigating for a long, long time. And thanks to Jeff L for continuing to carry the torch.....

and lastly, Fripples, if you get into any more heated or "disagreeing type" discussions your name will need to be out here per the rules. I and a few others know you but most of the board doesn't. Nothing personal..

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

So funny. Sad but funny.

Guess I know a Plank that will need reviewed again soon. Just remember.





http://www.legendaryauctions.com/Lot...entoryid=35826

The more I read the more I miss these guys.

I asked in the other thread, when I mentioned the PSA 6 Plank, if anyone thinks this will affect PSA. Let me rephrase this, does anyone think that PSA will have a rollover investigation from the FBI considering the cards Mastro and Co. are now admitting to altering are in PSA holders?

It seems to me that if the Noe investigation led to the Mastro investigation (as is mentioned in one of the threads) that then led to Allen and Rodgers, wouldn't the next logical step be an investigation into PSA especially considering it is a publicly held company?

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

I asked in the other thread, when I mentioned the PSA 6 Plank, if anyone thinks this will affect PSA. Let me rephrase this, does anyone think that PSA will have a rollover investigation from the FBI considering the cards Mastro and Co. are now admitting to altering are in PSA holders?

It seems to me that if the Noe investigation led to the Mastro investigation (as is mentioned in one of the threads) that then led to Allen and Rodgers, wouldn't the next logical step be an investigation into PSA especially considering it is a publicly held company?

These are good questions and it's very disturbing that some of these cards were holdered.

There likely several problems. One problem is the statute of limitations since a lot of this happened more than five years ago. The other problem is proving that PSA intentionally graded doctored cards and that will be difficult since that would require someone admitting that bad cards were deliberately graded. PSA's obvious defense will be incompetence.

On the other hand, it would be interesting to see Mastro's submission records to PSA and same goes with some of these consignors who submitted cards to PSA like the Plank PSA 6 that ended up in Mastro Auctions. Obviously these submissions now need to be rigorously scrutinized and the bad cards need to be bought back by PSA.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

These are good questions and it's very disturbing that some of these cards were holdered.

There likely several problems. One problem is the statute of limitations since a lot of this happened more than five years ago. The other problem is proving that PSA intentionally graded doctored cards and that will be difficult since that would require someone admitting that bad cards were deliberately graded. PSA's obvious defense will be incompetence.

On the other hand, it would be interesting to see Mastro's submission records to PSA and same goes with some of these consignors who submitted cards to PSA like the Plank PSA 6 that ended up in Mastro Auctions. Obviously these submissions now need to be rigorously scrutinized and the bad cards need to be bought back by PSA.

In my tiny bit of knowledge of law the Statute of Limitations, for many or most things, doesn't seem to start until the issue is known about. So if something happened 10+ yrs ago, but was only recently found out about, then that is when the Statute starts, not when it originally happened. I have never thought PSA did anything knowingly wrong although the PSA 8 Wagner has some stories that might contradict that. And yes, I would certainly agree that PSA needs to fix any mistakes of incompetence of otherwise, as any business does.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Leon,

Here's an excerpt from an article for criminal statute of limitations:

Federal statutes are only applicable to federal crimes. Typically, those are crimes which violate a congressionally mandated law or take place on federal property. Mail fraud and burglarizing or vandalizing a federally owned property are examples of what can be considered a federal crime.

Each type of federal crime has it's own type of statute of limitations however there is no statute of limitations for federal crimes punishable by death. Certain federal terrorism crimes do not have a statute of limitations either. Otherwise, prosecution for other federal crimes must begin within 5 years from the time the offense was committed. There are a few exceptions, such as arson, art theft, particular crimes against financial institutions and various immigration offenses which all carry statutes of limitations longer than the five-year norm.

No matter the applicable statute of limitations, the time period can be extended because of certain circumstances. For example, when the accused is a fugitive or the case involves charges of wartime fraud against the government, the statute of limitations can be lengthened.

Examples of federal crimes that receive extended statutes of limitations:

20 years for major theft of art work
10 years for arson, certain crimes against financial institutions and immigration offenses
8 years for non-violent violations of the terrorism-associated statutes

http://www.avvo.com/legal-guides/ugc...s-state-crimes

So in this instance, it appears that 5 years is the statute of limitations because I don't see any of those exceptions applying here.

But, your statement is generally true for civil liability unless it was something that should have been discovered with reasonable diligence. However, PSA does have a buy-back policy, which should be the easiest avenue for recovery.

[calvindog]

I'm sure Doug Allen provided all info to the federal investigators about PSA when he was cooperating. Before he obstructed justice, obviously. Same with Bill and John Rogers. Of course, all of their info would need to be corroborated because Doug, Bill and John are not exactly trustworthy individuals.

Regardless, I have no doubt Joe Orlando is more nervous than usual these days.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

Leon,

Here's an excerpt from an article for criminal statute of limitations:

Federal statutes are only applicable to federal crimes. Typically, those are crimes which violate a congressionally mandated law or take place on federal property. Mail fraud and burglarizing or vandalizing a federally owned property are examples of what can be considered a federal crime.

Each type of federal crime has it's own type of statute of limitations however there is no statute of limitations for federal crimes punishable by death. Certain federal terrorism crimes do not have a statute of limitations either. Otherwise, prosecution for other federal crimes must begin within 5 years from the time the offense was committed. There are a few exceptions, such as arson, art theft, particular crimes against financial institutions and various immigration offenses which all carry statutes of limitations longer than the five-year norm.

No matter the applicable statute of limitations, the time period can be extended because of certain circumstances. For example, when the accused is a fugitive or the case involves charges of wartime fraud against the government, the statute of limitations can be lengthened.

Examples of federal crimes that receive extended statutes of limitations:

20 years for major theft of art work
10 years for arson, certain crimes against financial institutions and immigration offenses
8 years for non-violent violations of the terrorism-associated statutes

http://www.avvo.com/legal-guides/ugc...s-state-crimes

So in this instance, it appears that 5 years is the statute of limitations because I don't see any of those exceptions applying here.

But, your statement is generally true for civil liability unless it was something that should have been discovered with reasonable diligence. However, PSA does have a buy-back policy, which should be the easiest avenue for recovery.

I am not a lawyer so everything I am about to say is purely from an ignorant bystander with questions.

I am sure $50K+ cards don't go through the regular channels and there is not a run of the mill grader looking at it purely for insurance purposes. So I don't see how these cards were graded without knowing exactly who they were doing it for.

The investigation I am talking about is if they were knowingly grading cards that shouldn't have been(or not given a grade above Authentic) for their own financial gain. If they indeed were knowingly helping Mastro and Co. I am sure they weren't doing it purely to gain more business but rather they were enjoying other financial gains.

IF PSA is found to have been knowingly grading cards for others to help with financial gain or in anyway boost the company's financial statements wouldn't, as a Publicly Traded Company, they fall under the SEC? Isn't there a Statute of Limitations similar to what Leon brought up in SEC cases?

You mentioned the refund policy, but as was shown with the (s)Nodgrass Cycle they wouldn't return it for the original buyer of that card and he was stuck with a card everyone knew was a fraud but that PSA wouldn't do anything about, so I don't think they could stand behind that "guarantee" if this does play out.

[turtleguy64]

Exactly,it looked like Legendary trolled mom and pop card shops to try and come up with something for this auction which just ended.Pinholes ?Inked ?How the mighty have fallen.

[turtleguy64]

anyone remember the touchy -feely family essay/photo session Orlando did for Doug in an issue of PSA guide a few years back.So what were the fruits of that relationship and how it affected cards coming from Legendary to PSA for the grading process ?

[CMIZ5290]

Meanwhile, Joe and Doug keep chugging along....Proof??? Jeff L., what's your take??

[calvindog]

Kevin, I have no idea what you're trying to say.

[turtleguy64]

Jeff,nothing lately on the Doug Allen sentencing.think his attorney is stalling the system ?

[ullmandds]

i realize it's kinda late in the game...but is there any way to deduce whether I(anyone) was ripped off in a legendary auction?

[turtleguy64]

that might be hard to discover.a bigger question,with a major void at the top,are you willing to consign to this auction company.Halloween is right around the corner and the major players of Legendary already have their costumes waiting for them : zebra outfits.