Advice on trimmed Keeler card - UPDATE

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Posted By: Paul

I just picked up the red background version of the E90-1 Keeler on ebay with some back damage. It's a card I've wanted for many years, and I thought that I got it at a steal of a price, even with the back damage.

When it arrived, I realized that the bottom border had been trimmed. The card is a little shorter than most E90-1s that I have seen, but there is some size variation in this set, and I believe it is still within the legitimate tolerances. But the wavy border on the bottom confirms that it's been trimmed. Here are the scans.





I'd like your opinions on what this card is worth in this condition. I'd tell you what I paid, but I'd rather get your opinions without you knowing what I paid. (It's easy for you to look it up on ebay if you're curious).

My guess is that I paid about the right price for a trimmed card. (I guess everyone else on ebay realized it was trimmed, resulting in me paying the correct price). But I would like your opinions.

If I paid about the right price, I'd also like your opinions on what I should do. I really do like the card, and I'm unlikely to pay the thousand dollars that a very similar (but untrimmed) example sold for in Lew Lipset's most recent auction. Would you return it, and give up all hope of owning this card with an unblemished picture? Would you keep it and just live with the fact that you didn't get what you thought you were buying? Or is there any chance that the seller would actually give me a partial refund and let me keep the card?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Paul

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Paul, I'd get rid of the card one way or the other. It would be a salvageable card if not for the lousy, wavy bottom as the front is nice otherwise. I would say it's worth less than what a PSA 1 is worth due to the back damage. Maybe $100 or less? I'd hold out for a 3 or so for about $500 as it really is a great card to have if you can get your hands on one.

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Posted By: Geno

Paul --

I'd keep it and try to get a partial refund. This is of course assuming you paid what a Fairish card would go for. I'm not a high grade collector, so the trim wouldn't bother me nearly as much as most guys on this board, however, I wouldn't want to have paid for it in a higher condition. In this case, it doesn't detract from the condition very much, as the back is so poor, therefore I'm guessing you probably paid a fair value for it.

If it makes you wince to send it back, then you probably should keep it. If it pisses you off that you got ripped off, then send it back.

Take Care,
Geno

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Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth

Looks like the seller intentionally obscured the bottom edge in his ebay listing. I would attempt to return it on that fact alone. I agree with Jeff as to the value. I hope you paid with paypal and have recourse to dispute the purchase in the event the seller does not stand behind it. Given the effort he took to hide the fact the card is poorly trimmed I suspect he is not going to be cooperative with a return.

Greg

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Posted By: Tony Andrea

Paul -
I think that card in an "Authentic" holder is about a $100 card. I went back to the auction
and saw what you paid. The seller doesn't mention the blatant trim job on the card and his
scans are somewhat difficult to pick it up compared to your scan here.
I personally would ask the seller to refund the difference from the figure I mentioned.
If he doesn't cooperate, I then would surely ask for a full refund due to the inability of
not mentioning the trimming. Give him the option and see where it goes.

Tony

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Well what does it cost to get it in an authentic holder??

I might pay $100 less that cost. Are you wanting to sell it, or haggle with the previous seller, or what?


And it looks like one side might have been slightly trimmed, and the bottom for certain, then the "trimmer" decided to quit trimming...

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Posted By: Paul Kaufman

The card is obviously trimmed and worth no more than $150. You need to get some money back, since the listing did not mention the trimming. If you can get some cash back from the seller, I would keep the card and get it graded AUTHENTIC by SGC. Good luck !

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Posted By: Brad

Paul,

You are obviously taking a chance when buying an ungraded card, specially a desirable card, most collectors look for graded cards if there concerned about TRIMMING! That's a bummer alright, butit's still a nice piece of history!

As for what the card is worth, "It's worth what you paid for it!" There's always a person who will pay more then what you paid...

Asking for your money back: Did the EBay seller quote in his description (takes refunds)? if not, there's no return policy. You bought the card asif it was a trimmed card (the closing price reflects paper loss & trimming)!

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Posted By: dennis

seller should have mentioned it was trimmed...it was scanned in a top loader so the trimmed bottom did not look as obvious in the ebay auction. i would contact about sending it back to him asap and see what he says. nice card but imo if it was scanned properly and trimming was mentioned it would have sold for a little less.

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Posted By: Brad

http://cgi.ebay.com/Willie-Keeler-1909-11-American-Caramel-E90-1-Red-Back_W0QQitemZ320189235880QQihZ011QQcategoryZ86840 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

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Posted By: Paul

Thanks for all of the advice. I will be contacting the seller. Your estimates are a little lower than I was guessing, which is part of the reason why I'll be contacting him. That, and the fact that it's just not right.

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Posted By: Paul

I've contacted the seller, and he has agreed to take the card back for a full refund. Incidentally, he said he has owned the card for 25 years.

He does have good feedback, and I suspect he is being honest. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that my money is actually refunded. Thanks again for your help.

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Posted By: fkw

For what its worth, the seller at the beginning of the auction originally had the card listed as as a T206 White Border. I wrote them and told them what set the card was really from. I dont think they knew they had a trimmed card.

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Posted By: Paul S

I still have a large group of E-90s that I bought more than 30 years ago. Some have holes, some are long, some are short, and a couple are so obviously trimmed that you know it's not an attempt to hide anything. Probably just to fit inside a holder.