One that got away

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Posted By: jackgoodman

There was a comment in another thread about someone picking up several hundred T206s at one time and that made me recall a time in 1987 when I was set up as a dealer at one of Bob Lee's local shows in Northern California.

An older lady came in with a box of about 200 T206's in probably ex/ex+ condition (based on a quick thumb thru). I think T206 commons were in the guide at about $12-15 each. I asked her how much she wanted and she said $12 per card.

With all of my "rightful" dealer indignation I said "you can't expect me to pay 100% of book!!!!!" She walked away.

To this day, I kick myself whenever I think about this supreme lack of judgement on my part (ouch, that kick hurt!).

Does anyone else have a "one that got away" story to make me feel better?

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Posted By: Trae R.

Ouch

You (and everyone else) would love that deal today, huh?

Speaking of which, Mr.Sloate, I think I am going to sell my truck and buy your T206 set listed for $27,500 - I'll just walk to work everyday and gloat over my awesome set the whole way there. haha

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

haa?....who was Gary Gaetti ?

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Posted By: Ben

I'll never forgive myself for passing on a trade that would have landed me an e107 Mcgraw

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Posted By: Jim Clarke

Me to on a E97 b/w Keeler card.. A pushy seller had to know at the time of call and would not wait 2 hours until I got home to figure out a possible trade.. You snooze you loose an old friend told me once... Later JC

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Posted By: Anonymous

Circa 1976 or 77 when I was a teen, my family went on vacation down to Florida, driving from Illinois. On the way we stopped at a junk store in Georgia, run by a really old guy.

I was about 13 and had almost no money, but I always asked at all those places if they had baseball cards, and unlike most places this place did.

He had thousands, including about every Topps set up to the late 60's (maybe more, I don't know, they were in some little closet he wouldn't let me in) , the Fleer 60-61 set of baseball greats and a cigar box full of about 100 or more T 206's. I had never seen one then but knew it was old, recognizing Iron Man McGinnity's card. I bought it and another (Casey) for $2 each. I also bought the complete Cardinal team set from 1968 Topps for $1.

My folks tried to discourage this habit of collecting cards, thinking it to be a waste of time and money, and would not loan me any $$.

2 years later we went back to Florida on vacation again, and I had been faithfully saving money the whole time, I was loaded with a couple hundred bucks.

We stopped at the junk store, and found out the guy had died a month or so before, and his son had sold the baseball cards.....

At least I've still got the McGinnity and Casey.....

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Posted By: pete

It had to have been around 1992-93 back when prodigy ruled for internet bb card buying/trading. I met a friend of an older gentleman who had a ty cobb card but didn't know anything about it. I offered to meet him in Central NJ and I'd take a look at them for him.

I met them at a macdonalds and this man had inherited a tobacco box of cards from a friend of his. It had hundreds of cards many non sports a bunch of e90-1's some hall of famers, some boxers, I remember a pirate back chinese character card and 2 complete sets of e94's minus 1 mcgraw. I easily could have bought them for a fair price but I blew it. I offered to help him sell the e94 sets in exchange for the other cards...I never heard from him again!

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Posted By: pete

At the national in St Louis in 99 or so I saw some amazing things I blew! A letter from Uzit cigarettes with 4 cards attached one of which was a baseball card as a sample to a distributor...It was like $2200. Tik and Tik had these amazing samples of t206's adhered to ledger paper from the archives of the printer I'd imagine. There was a front view and the back view adhered to the paper. There was a carolina brights and some other uncommon backs...they were a few hundred bucks each.

A Broad Leaf 460 back at a fort washington show years ago for $160.

A Baltimore News/E94 for $150.

Please stop me!

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Posted By: jay behrens

I had a chance around 1982 to buy a t206 Wagner with a huge chunk of the upper right corner missing for $1500. I was a poor 19 year old kid getting by on sailor's pay and no hope of getting that kind of money to buy the card. It's still the only Wagner I had a legitimate chance to own and one of only 2 I've ever held in my hand.

The other one was a chance to buy a complete set of t206s, less the Big 3, in EX for $5000 in 1985. I bought a new car with the money instead.

Jay

Wow upside down is Mom. Mom upside down is what dad wants to see.

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Posted By: Joe P.

jackgoodman:
"One that got away

There was a comment in another thread about someone picking up several hundred T206s at one time and that made me recall a time in 1987 when I was set up as a dealer at one of Bob Lee's local shows in Northern California.

An older lady came in with a box of about 200 T206's in probably ex/ex+ condition (based on a quick thumb thru). I think T206 commons were in the guide at about $12-15 each. I asked her how much she wanted and she said $12 per card.

With all of my "rightful" dealer indignation I said "you can't expect me to pay 100% of book!!!!!" She walked away.
*
*
You've got the right year, right location, and it was a Bob Lee's show.
I may have written about this some time back.
It was during the time that I was working on the most loved by every T206 card collector set.
I flew out to that show from NYC. (I worked for United Airlines)
I liked multi hundreds tables shows, and Lee had them.
It was a case of flying out for the first day of the show, and possibly flying out that night to another city, or flying back home.
I was standing at a dealers table from Indiana (I wont mention his name.)looking at some T201's that I was interested in.
From the corner of my eye I noticed a young couple come to the table and start talking with the dealer.
I went on with my business, but I did notice that the couple had an old Hershey's cardboard chocolate box, from it I could see that the dealer was looking at some damn nice looking T206's.
They were talking, and the dealer writes something on one of his blue business flyers and the couple walks away.
Being that it was non of my business, I went on with my business.
Later on, as I was giving the show my last run through, I spot the young couple in front of me.
I politely introduced myself, and asked them if they still had the box of cards.
I was elated to hear that they did.
I asked them how much were they looking for.
They produced the dealers blue flyer with a number written on it.
The dealer had advised them to go around the show and if they still had them, to come back and they would talk.
Let me just say that the dealer and the seller were just $500.00 apart, and that the asking price was damn reasonable even for 1987.
At that point I suggested that we should go to the cafeteria.
We sat while I briefly looked at a sampling.
He also had a Beckett Guide with all the cards checked off that were in the box.
There were a little over 800 T cards.
A good representation of T206's - T205's and some other T's.
They were a charming couple in the process of getting married.
Agreeing to the price was not a problem.
They were happy.
I was happy, and the Hershey's chocolate box with the blue business flyer, had a new home.
Believe it, or not.
As I was exiting the show, I bumped into them again, and this time they had the parents of one of them with them. ... I greeted them, and they were also happy.
I had to get to the airport, and you can bet your last dollar, ... it was going to be homeward bound.
Couldn't wait to see what was in the rest of that box.
I'm happy to say that it was one that didn't get away.

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Posted By: jackgoodman

to pay that $12/per card now. How 'bout it???????

I can't believe there were over 800 cards. They must have only brought a portion over to me originally. Glad they found a good home though.

I know what you mean about meddling into someone else's deal. There was a dealer affectionately called "big john" who used to set up at those shows with a museum of cards and memorabilia. His set-up would usually attract most walk-in material and I would hear him literally "stealing" cards from these people. I often wanted to shout out "wait I'll pay you more" but dealer ettiquette made me refrain (also he was one big son-of-a-****).

How come you didn't come by my table and say hello?

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Posted By: tbob

I was at a large show in Kansas City in 1981 and a guy walking down the aisle stopped me and asked me if I would be interested in buying some T205s. I was collecting the T206 set at the time, having just plunged in to the vintage card hobby for the first time. I thought I certainly didn't need to start collecting another set, being a completist of sorts. He had about 45-50 T205s and all of them were in exmt condition or better. I looked through them and he told me he wanted $450 for them and I politely said no. "How about $350?" and I told him that I just didn't collect them. He thanked me, started to walk off, turned around and said, "ok, I am getting to ready to leave, how about $250?" I passed one more time, looking at the stack of cards in his hand. I don't remember now who all was in the stack but I will always be haunted by the one card I remember which was on the top of the stack, a near mint Matty.
24 years later that is still my worst nightmare, although at the National in '95 in St. Louis (my last one until this year when I am going to Chicago) I passed up 2 different Obak Buck Weaver cards for $75.00 each from 2 different dealers. One I remember appeared exmt but had a "diamond cut" but was otherwise gorgeous so I passed. The other was about vg+. Sheesh!

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Posted By: jay behrens

If you guys wre at the big Bob Lee show in 87, that would have been the National. I was set up at that show. Wasn't a bad show for me. Got into my usual discussion with Mr Mint about not being his wholesaler after he wanted to cherry pick my cases but also scored nice group of 48 Bowman basketball. The lady had them in a binder. I flipepd thru looking to see what Mpls Lakers players were there, but didn't see a Mikan. I asked her if there were any other cards she had. She said, sure, the expensivce cards are in the side pocket. All the key cards, including the Mikan were sitting loose in the these side pockets. She said I was first person to ask for other cards, and my table wasn't exactly close to the entrance. I made her an offer and told her to check the rest of the show, then come back if she liked my offer best. She said she didn't want to carry the thing anymore and sold it to me

Josh Evans, if you are reading this, you'll remember me as the guy that went to dinner with you, Mike Jasperson and Mike Maysenholder after one of the days of that show.

Jay

Wow upside down is Mom. Mom upside down is what dad wants to see.

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Posted By: Joe P.

"Hey Joe,
I'm willing to pay that $12/per card now. How 'bout it???????"
*
*
Jack - Make that $12.50, and it's a done deal.

PS.
In all my years, I've never meddled in a dealers deal, and I'm a collector.
They pay for the tables to be there, and they carry the stuff in and out.
My job as a good collector, was to lessen their burden whenever I could, ...... legally.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I nearly had a fistfight at a show in Anaheim about 14 years ago. I was set up next to this other dealer about 15 years older, a head shorter and much fatter than me. A customer standing just to the left of my table asks if I had a card. I did and he bought it. I think I made about $15. The dealer next to me pops a gut and starts yelling that I stole his customer because the guy was looking at something on his table (totally unrelated to what he asked me for, BTW) when he spoke to me. The pudgy moron came up and waggled his fist in my face and said "I could bury you!" I stood up and he ran away, but it spoiled the day for me.

One issue I just thought of: if you are at a table and you see a dealer offered a deal by someone who obviously doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground and the dealer is in the process of cheating him, what should you do? Would it matter if the person involved was a kid or an elderly person who seemed to be of diminished capacity (not senile, just frail)?

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Posted By: gary

So about a year ago I see some guy selling some "old" cards in the paper. Luckily his location is 10 min from me. I called him and asked if he had other cards, and if I can see them. When I got there he took out a box of approx 500 tobacco cards (caramels , t206 , t205). He said he didn't know much about them only that he knew they were valuable. He picked them up at a garage sale for about 5000.00 from an old woman.

So I go through them one by one, eyes wide...and salivating the whole time. I bought as many as I could afford, as he looked in a out-dated price guide...I bought about 200-250 from him...cobbs, wagners, mattys ...all the HOFs. He still has a MAGIE error that he sent off to PSA and it was graded EX 5. I am still trying to figure a way to get that one off him, and the others he has in his safe.

Anyway here is the rub. I was going to go out to all the garale sales that morning that he bought the cards. I go out every weekend looking...and hoping for a great find. I come back to my house every weekend with nothing but a box of 1980's commons i bought for 2 bucks. But I didn't show up one weekend , and some guy who doesn't even like vintage cards in the least steals my garale sale find of a lifetime. Oh well....

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Posted By: Joe P.

What's a garale sale?

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

Any garale under a buck three eighty is a good sale to me.

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Posted By: leon

I paid $2.10 for my last garale......

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Posted By: Joe P.

Related to Sara Lee?

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Posted By: jay behrens

I think he might be talking about the holy garale

Jay

Wow upside down is Mom. Mom upside down is what dad wants to see.

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Posted By: Billy

I am no dealer, so I don't know what proper etiquitte is, but I think if you see a dealer trying to swindle a customer it is fair game to intervene. It's a free market out there and if you'd pay more than he would, to me that isnt "stealing", it's a smart business move.

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Posted By: Bill Cornell

I don't know what proper etiquitte is, but I think if you see a dealer trying to swindle a customer it is fair game to intervene

You just answered your own question about etiquette - butting in on a transaction, regardless of who's involved, is obnoxious. You don't get to decide what's a "swindle" and what isn't.

Bill

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Posted By: Billy

whatever. I say you look out for #1.

From a business perspective, if you let a dealer get a "great deal", and you don't intervene, not only do you lose a transaction that would benefit you, but you HELP a fellow dealer you are in direct competition with.

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Posted By: Bill Cornell

whatever. I say you look out for #1.

You'll go far with that attitude, Billy. You won't collect much, but you'll go far.

What "business" are you talking about, exactly?

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Posted By: leon

I will be at the National and sharing a table with another board member. Everyone on the board is welcome at our table except you. Get the point? It's ok to look out for people but you shouldn't butt into other folks business. Those dealers pay good money for their tables and have thousands of hours invested in knowing what is and isn't a good deal. Is this info any less valuable than a lawyer that has a degree?....in that the lawyer probably has thousands of hours of classroom time in, in order to practice what they do. Don't get me wrong I think it's great to look out for each other on scams and so forth.....just don't butt into other folks business....These are just my thoughts and you will do as you wish....it's a free country....take care....

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Posted By: Billy

Man sorry for ruffling your feathers guys. I was just responding to a question posed by Warshawlaw

"if you are at a table and you see a dealer offered a deal by someone who obviously doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground and the dealer is in the process of cheating him, what should you do? Would it matter if the person involved was a kid or an elderly person who seemed to be of diminished capacity (not senile, just frail)?"

He asked "what should you do"

I gave my opinion to a question posed. If you wanna disbar me from your table I could care less.

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Posted By: leon

If you feel like butting in at our table consider yourself "disbarred". I am very happy you could care less. Makes me feel ok for being a dick......take care....

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Posted By: davidcycleback

I once placed a maximum $150 bid on an item in a MastroNet auction. I was the high bidder for over two days and had already cleared off a space on my mantle. On the third day in the 21 day auction, I had my coffee and checked the status. The high bid was at over $4,000.

I've had many similar photo finishes at MastroNet.

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Posted By: Billy

Don't worry leon, I don't collect the low grades.

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Posted By: sfmasher

Here's a funny story I wrote about collecting and the one that got away. The story is in my latest book, Left-Handed Stories. Thought I'd share it with the group. Hope you like it.

Best,

Travis

thesfmasher@yahoo.com
~~~~~~

Treasure Chest
By Travis Jensen

In the summer of ‘87, my mom packed me and my sister up into her old ’77 Buick Century station wagon and moved us from Chicago, Illinois to Denver, Colorado. She decided to move us there after being accepted into Denver University’s graduate program. She rented a small two bedroom duplex on South Gilpin Street, a half-mile or so away from campus.

I befriended Joey Tranella the first day we moved in. He lived in the house next door with his father and two sisters.

Joey’s father worked at the Flying Pie Pizzeria on University Ave., across the street from campus. I don’t know if Flying Pie is still in business or not, but to this day, I still consider it to be one of the best pizzas I’ve ever had. They served it just the way I like it, deep-dish, Chicago style. It reminded me of home. Not to mention, Joey’s dad always gave us free pizza whenever we came in, so that made it even all the better. There’s no pizza like free pizza.

One afternoon that summer, I believe it was mid July, Joey and I decided to go up to Flying Pie to pay his father a visit. My mom had given me a couple bucks to eat with, but since Joey’s dad always gave us the pizza for free, I decided that I was going to spend that money on a couple packs of baseball cards instead. It was “dump day” in our area, so everybody had their junk out on the edge of the street awaiting pick up.

Dump day was the one day a year in Denver that you could throw out all your old junk that the Goodwill didn’t want and the regular garbage men wouldn’t pick up. Each section of town had a different dump day and when it was your day, an enormous garbage truck nearly twice the size of a standard one would come huffing-n-puffing down the street with a cloud of black smoke billowing out of the exhaust and a team of three or four men dressed in blue jumpsuits hanging off the side. The truck would stop at each house and the men would jump off the side of the truck, load your junk into the compactor, and then proceed on to the next house.

Joey and I rummaged through some of the junk piles along the way to the pizzeria. Most of the stuff had already been picked through. The only good things we found were a couple of old Playboy Magazine’s from the late 60s. Since we couldn’t risk carrying the magazines with us, we tore some of the better pictures out of them, folded them up, and shoved them in our back pockets to look at later.

Joey’s dad was working the register at Flying Pie when we showed up. I ordered sausage and pepperoni; Joey had Canadian bacon and Pineapple.

Afterwards, we stopped off at the 7-11 a few doors down. Joey played a game of Space Invaders and I bought two packs of baseball cards. I popped the two free slabs of gum into my mouth and started scanning through the cards: Kevin Mitchell-got ‘em, Eric Davis-need ‘em, Carlton Fisk-need ‘em, Paul Molitor-got ‘em, Allan Trammel-need ‘em, Jose Conseco-Cool!

After I finished going through the two packs, I shoved the cards into my back pocket with the nudie pictures and watched Joey finish his game.

On the way home, Joey and I decided to walk down a different street than we had come up to see if we could find anything good in the junk piles. Again, most of the stuff had already been picked through, but Joey had some luck and ended up finding an old electric train set with tracks and other accessories in a pile about four blocks from our house. This particular house appeared to be vacant and had more junk waiting to be picked up than normal. There was a “For Sale” sign in the yard and it looked like the previous tenants had planned their move around dump day.

While Joey sat on lawn of the empty house examining the train set, I rummaged through a skyscraping pile of old garments that reeked heavily of mothballs. There, buried deep beneath the massive heap of clothing I discovered an old chest. It looked like an old pirates treasure chest you’d see in the movies or imagined while reading Treasure Island. Oh, this should be good, I thought, as I continued digging my way through the mound of musty clothing to get to the chest. Once I got it out, I flipped open the lid to see what was inside. To my surprise, the damn thing was practically overflowing with vintage baseball cards. There must have been four or five thousand of ‘em in there. I knew they were old because they were much smaller than the normal cards I was used to seeing and their uniforms and haircuts looked funny compared to those of today.

I picked up a small handful of the cards and started to thumb through them. The cardboard smelled like stale tobacco and I didn’t recognize any of the player’s names: Collins, Lajoie, Kelley, Duffy, Anson, Evers, Young, Fletcher, and Cobb.

Examining the cards further, I flipped them over to look at the backs. There were no stats, just a bunch of old cigarette advertisements of tobacco manufacturers that I had never heard of: Sweet Caporal, Piedmont, Old Mill, Drum, and a couple others.

“Hey, whatcha lookin at?” Joey asked, glancing up from the train set.

“Nothin,” I replied. “Just a bunch of crappy old baseball cards.”

“Anything good?”

“Naw, just a bunch of old timers I ain’t ever heard of before,” I said, then tossed the cards back into the trunk, shut the lid, threw some clothes back over it, and then walked over to where Joey was to check out the train set he had found.

Joey and I didn’t speak much on the walk home on account of the fact that I was jealous he found the train set and I didn’t find anything.

Here I am now almost 18 years later, an avid vintage baseball card collector, and I’m kicking myself in the ass for leaving that trunk of cards behind. As it turns out, the cards were from the 1909 T206 White Border Set and 1911 T205 Gold Border set. Judging by the quantity, I’m guessing they’d be worth somewhere in the area of two to three million dollars on todays market. Who knows what kind of gems were in there, because some of the cards I specifically remember seeing in that small handful I thumbed through alone book for a couple thousand dollars a piece. I wouldn’t have been surprised if there was even an elusive Honus Wagner card in there, which in decent condition can bring in well over one million dollars alone at auction. This treasure chest of cards would have definitely gone down in history as one of the hobby’s most significant finds of all-time, a true piece of Americana. Too bad I didn’t realize this until many years after the fact.

I would give anything in the world right now to turn back the clock and replay that situation over again. I’d be sitting on a freaking gold mine right now…coulda-woulda-shoulda. Sometimes I wonder if someone came along after me and scooped the cards up, or if they’re just sitting in a dump somewhere in Colorado decomposing underneath a mountain of trash. That’s the part that bothers me the most, I’ll never know. I wonder if the original owner ever realized the true value of the cards after discarding them.

Ha! And to think I was jealous that Joey found that train set and I didn’t. What’s even funnier is that the train didn’t even work when we took it back to Joey’s. We spent close to two hours assembling it and cleaning the gunk of the tracks and all it did was give us both a good shock when we plugged the old transformer into the wall and turned on the power. On top of that, I forgot to pull those nudie pictures from out of the back pocket of my pants and my mom ended up finding them along with the two packs of cards I bought while doing the laundry a few days later. She tossed the cards in the trash, grounded me for two weeks, and decided it that it was time she gave me the dreaded sex talk about the birds and the bees. Ain’t that the breaks?

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Posted By: Trae R.

"To my surprise, the damn thing was practically overflowing with vintage baseball cards. There must have been four or five thousand of ‘em in there."

No. No. No. NO! This story cannot be true - my oh my I am reluctant to even think about finding such a thing.

Could you imagine how elated any one of us would be to find something like that today! Great story, thank you for sharing. I must know though, is it true?

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Posted By: tbob

That story makes me feel a helluva lot better about my bonehead decision 23 years ago

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Posted By: Rob McKenzie

Re: Warshaw's hypothetical..


I like baseball cards and all, but I could not see myself buying a box of vintage cards from an old lady and her grandkids for .10 on the dollar. I'd like to think i'd show them a beckett guide and offer at least 50% of book.

If I had a table next to a guy who tried to offer an elderly lady in a wheelchair less than 10%, I'd probably have to hand her the beckett guide from 1992 at least. Later

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Posted By: jay behrens

Leon, I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. If I'm set up at a show and a dealer next to me is being grossly dishonest with someone about the value of the cards he trying to buy from a walk-in, I'm gonna say something. Just as he paid his money to be at the show, I paid mine, and if he isn't willing to pony up a collection and I am, then that's just bad business on his part.

Here's one case I remeber quite well. A dealer was set up next to me and was checking a some Sports Kings that had walked into the show. I overheard him tell the lady that he doesn't deal in those cards and doesn't know much about them. I found this quite interesting since a month or so earlier he was set up another show with very nice selection of SKs in case. A few of which I bought. At that point, I asked him he still had Sports Kings left from that nice group he had a month ago. The look on his face could have killed and lady asked me if that was true. I told her, yes, it's true becuase I collect the cards and showed her a Lavern Fator card I had in my showcase. She immediately left his table and I ended up buying the cards from her.

To say that dealer was pissed is an understatement, but by the same token, if he hadn't been a scumbag and tried to bamboozle the person, he would have probably ended up with cards.

In some ways I'm on the fence about another collector stepping into a situation like that, but if it's a case where the dealer is totally gonna cheat the person, I am more than likely gonna step up and say something.

Jay

Wow upside down is Mom. Mom upside down is what dad wants to see.

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Posted By: Bill Cornell

Jay -

Vigilantes are always unloved, unnecessary and they're obnoxious. Don't question deals that don't involve you - bad dealers and bad collectors get what's coming to them.

Bill

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Posted By: john/z28jd

I remember one time a guy at a card store getting mad at me because i answered a customers question he claimed ignorance on and it was probably over a 50 cent sale he got mad.

There was a middle infielder for the Angels in the early 90s named Bobby Rose and a kid asked is that Pete Rose's son,and the owner said i dont know it could be. All i said was its not,Pete Rose's son is a minor leaguer for the Reds and hes named Pete Rose Jr. The owner gave me a dirty look and said to the customer,it could be his son,im not sure.

When i was about 15 at the time,i was a walking baseball encyclopedia and thats all i did was read books.I was 100 percent sure of my answer and could of told you more about Bobby Rose than youd find out by reading the back of his card.So i told the kid who looked at me after he said that 'No hes not,im positive hes not' and the kid didnt buy the card.I also left the store without buying anything after the look

Bobby Rose cards probably booked for 25 cents back then,so he stood to make 25 cents on the card.Imagine what how pissed the guy would be if it were actually a large amount of money

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Posted By: leon

First of all let me say that "I" don't have my own table at the National, it's Scott B's, and I just rent a few cases. I do pay good money for them though. SO I can't speak for Scott but for my little two cases if anyone wants to butt into my business when someone comes around I would prefer you didn't. So Billy you are still welcome at the other 3/4 of the table where I will be. I won't speak for Scott. I imagine he wouldn't want anyone butting into his business either though. Secondly there are always different sides to every story. Am I going to rip off a little ole lady in a wheelchair? Only if I can!! No, just kidding. Anyone that knows me (except 1 case with JC and 1 case with Dan) will say that they have never had a problem with my dealings. Dan and I are over our little issue and I am sure JC and I will get over ours too. Thirdly Jay...there is a difference between outright lieing and getting a good deal. Likewise John....the guy lied to the person. I don't advocate lieing. At the same time there isn't one person on this board who hasn't withheld information to try to get a good deal. As Trump would say, to paraphrase.. "he who knows the most has a better chance of winning"....I have bought cards and lost money and bought cards and made money...We all stand on the reputations we make.......... later

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Posted By: Scott Forrest

I understand Jay's point of view though. Jay, all I can say is - what goes around comes around. That swindling dealer would end up getting his in the end, regardless of what you did.

Billy I don't get - hopefully we don't see him at the National laying on his face with Mr. Mint standing over him.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I posed the question because I have often pondered it. I am sensitive to the issue because I have something that some but not all of you have--a professional license. If I am set up at a show and I cheat someone out of their cards and they get my name and they get wise to my scam and report me to the bar I can be disciplined for cheating them. It isn't worth my ticket to buy some cards. Where I fall in the debate is this:

As a dealer, I do not lie to walk-ins or call-ups, I just offer what I think is appropriate and leave it at that, if I am interested. If they balk at the deal and are clueless, I will steer them to a price guide before they head into the shark-infested waters. Often, they come back to me and take the offer I made because I was honest and reasonable in the first place. While I agree that I don't see it as my job to educate them or appraise their collection (if they want a consultant, hire me at my rate and I will help), it also isn't right to mislead someone in order to get a deal. It is fraud.

I do not agree that bad dealers will get what is coming to them. Life doesn't work that way. Sometimes bad people get punished; sometimes they skate (how's the search for the real killsrs going, Orenthal?). I know a lot of real pigs who do quite well as dealers; I don't see them getting in trouble for their rapacious activities. Despite that, I would not intervene in a deal as a matter of etiquette if the seller appeared to be an adult of normal faculties. After all, you are at a card show--walk around and have a look what what stuff is worth, talk with some dealers, do a little due diligence, then lay down your cards. If not, you are setting yourself up to be cheated and I am not going to intervene, unless I am asked (in which case I certainly will not lie for the dealer). If the seller appeared to be a child or a frail or elderly person, however, I would probably jump in and say something, because that person probably doesn't have the ability to protect themselves and the dealer taking advantage of that is a genuine a-hole to begin with.

Finally, most of the people who post here are honest, so I would not expect them to be cheating people at shows. Scott and Leon run one of the most fun and interesting tables and are both stand-up guys, so I would not even be listening in on a deal of Leon's unless it was very loud , let alone standing ready to jump in unless invited.

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Posted By: Billy

Whatever SCOTT

I am a black belt in karate (for 12 years), so I doubt Mr. Mint or any of you fruitcakes will be standing on top of me anywhere.

I still don't get how I'm ambushed by everyone by giving my opinion to a question. Especially since Jay says the SAME THING, yet it's cool since he said it. Ya'll live in a dream world IMO

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Posted By: jay behrens

Billy, I didn't say the same thing as you. I would only step in a very limited circumstances. I would not step in if I was willing to offer more money, but the offer from the other dealer wasnt totally out of line. It's a fine line. In roughly 10 years of setting up at shows I jump in a dealer 3 times. Each time, they were outright lying to the person and offering them about 10 cents on the dollar.

If a dealer is being honest and still offering 10 cents on the dollar, I'm not gonna step in.

Soudns like BcD and Billy shoudl sign up for a match at the Nationals, hehe.

Jay

Wow upside down is Mom. Mom upside down is what dad wants to see.

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Posted By: Billy

"I should also add that I would only do this in an extreme case."

That's my quote from above. That's not what you said Jay? After this post, I'm quitting Ya'll are so petty about everything.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Billy, don't take it too personally. We all get up in each other's grill once in awhile. Hell, you ahven't even faced the wrath of MW yet. I had that pleasure with the first week or 2 and earned the title Dunderhead. But I bear no ill will towards him or wanted to leave the board. We butt heads here once in awhile and then the next week are back to being on good terms. You generally have to do something really bad to get to totally ostricized from here.

The other reason I might get cut a little slack is that I've been involved in the hobby as a dealer or collector for almost 25 years and am something of a known quantity among old-timers.

I do agree though that the thread did ask for opinions and you should not have been jumped on the way you were for expressing an opinion. Both sides could have been a bit more diplomatic.

Jay

Wow upside down is Mom. Mom upside down is what dad wants to see.

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Posted By: Chris

Jay's right Billy. I think most of us have had our little run ins with each other. I had one when I was relatively new to the board. I offered to call the guy and apologize for where I was wrong but he refused to take my call. What can you do? You can't please everyone all of the time. It's still a good board where you can learn alot.

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Posted By: Paul

I will try to make it short. My dad had a friend who consigned his father's stamp collection to an auction house that deals primarily in stamps. Well along with the stamps there was a small golf ball box with tobacco cards from the 1800's. I would guess there was a full set of Goodwin Champions of Sports Cards in there along with doubles. I got outbid by $100. I still have nightmares about Lot 22........

Paul

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Isn't saying you are a blackbelt, like, bad mojo or something?

I have a black belt...in my pants...it holds my holster with my S&W .357 magnum...

I know, I know, I am a liberal and a gun owning NRA member...can you say cross-cutting allegiances?

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Posted By: Billy

Warshawlaw,
Did you not just say you don't believe in that crap when you referenced OJ????

I was informing Mr. scott forrest to not have any fantasies of Mr. Mint having me in a prone position any time soon, that is all I meant by it.

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Posted By: zach

This one never really got away because I never had a chance at it but when my Dad was a kid he would go over to his grandfathers house and listen to his stories about Ruth and Johnson and about how he saw them play. Up some where in a closet was a stack of baseball cards with a rubber band around them the whole 1915 sporting news set. When my great grandfather died my dad went back to the house and they were gone....it's a shame because he remembers them as beening mint like a pack of fresh playing cards and he remembers seeing all the stars like Ruth and Cobb.

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Posted By: Scott Forrest

Since you have no respect for any of us, why again is it that you are posting here? I'm not saying to go away, I'm just curious what the appeal is - the rest of us are all collectors of vintage cards. Whether I have a black belt or not is irrelevant to that hobby.

With your attitude, I don't think it's too much of a fantasy to even imagine a 90-lb weakling standing over your prone body - he might be holding a chair and you might be looking the other way, but that's what happens to people like you.