What's with the locks?

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Posted By: Todd Schultz

I do not understand the quick trigger on the locks for Larry. I don’t know the guy from Adam, but I believe he has a very nice collection and has contributed frequently on the post-war forum. To call him a troll is flat out incorrect, IMHO, and the addition of “idiot” was unnecessary. In addition, the suggestion that he be banned is similarly meritless.

I agree that Larry needed to add his last name to sling the kind of mud he was slinging. His failure to rectify that situation warranted his posts being deleted–if you won’t sign off on it with your full name, shut up. I’m guessing Larry is less familiar with forum rules than many of us who hang out in the prewar side, where there is far more action and more chance for flare ups, but he clearly had ample time to reflect and correct. His shots at Yee needed only his last name, and I find his explanation for leaving it out to be lacking. Still, if he wants to maintain his privacy, good for him, and deletion is the proper corrective measure. I suppose if it continued to the point of disrupting the forum, something more might be needed. But calling him names and calling for his banishment in this instance was improper and heavy-handed, IMO.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

He was warned many times and continued to post his accusations without following forum rules. He was being intentionally obtuse and following his threat towards another board member he was shut down.

edited to add: The moderators of this board should not have to follow someone around who continually breaks the rules in order to delete their posts. After numerous warnings if you can't follow the rules you're gone. It's that simple.

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Posted By: Todd Schultz

is that right?

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I believe Leon did ban him. IMO after his threat to a board member he deserved it. All he had to do was put his name on his posts...he refused to do so after numerous warnings. He's a grown man and he should act like it.

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Posted By: Todd Schultz

What a frickin joke.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Ummmm....okay.

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Posted By: leon

When he/she threatened to cause havoc in a friend's auction AND didn't obey forum rules after being warned multiple times....yeap, absolutely banned....Not even a question or a close call. Open and shut in my book. I am not even saying I disagreed with what he had to say. That is totally beside the point. There will not be anarchy on this watch. In order to have a safe community and participate in it you must abide by very simple rules. He was not banned until he continued posting and threatening AFTER Dan and I edited his comments . I was going to let it go and just keep him from posting anonymous accusations......then he started on a rampage....He's gone...

edited to add I do think he is an idiot and I do think he is a troll. Look at how he wrote his rampage and what he said and defend it....?????

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Posted By: Todd Schultz

then let me repeat--What a frickin joke.

Swatting a mosquito with a sledgehammer, that's what you did. All of two threads did the man express any opinion. What a rampage you quelled, what anarchy you rebuffed. Well done--congratulations.

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Posted By: leon

All I can say is "whatever". If you had to deal with anonymous people not obeying easy rules after being warned multiple times maybe you would change your thinking...though I doubt it. Very sad indeed...

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

How many warnings should someone get Todd? And it wasn't just two threads, he started a third in which he made a threat to ruin someone's livelihood.

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Posted By: leon

I did see several post war threads this "Larry" person posted in and they were all fine. But he still can't say the things he did anonymously....and I don't think moderators should have to baby sit.....fore-warned is fair-warned....

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Posted By: Todd Schultz

"edited to add I do think he is an idiot and I do think he is a troll"

Those words reflect as much on you as they do on him, Leon.

Spend about 5 minutes looking through the post-war forum and tell me the guy is an idiot and stirs up crap for its own sake with no meaningful contribution, i.e. the definition of troll.

All that slop on the main forum goes unchecked--thread after thread of class warfare and slab vs. non-slab BS, each with personal attacks, and you get your back up on this. The discussion in the main thread about Yee was hardly turning into a bloodbath--it was practically a pillow fight compared to what regularly goes on in the prewar forum. In fact, the only ones really complaining that I can see were the two moderators and Barry Sloate.

"Absolutely banned" "not even a question or close close call" "open and shut". I'll keep my opinion--swatting a mosquito with a sledgehammer.

EDITED TO ADD--well, if you've seen the postwar posts, then I assume you agree he was neither an idiot nor a troll. So it's all about not following the rules. Fine, I get it.

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Posted By: Paul Muchinsky

If Larry felt he was shilled and lost out on a nice item for which he offered a fair price, he was angry and hurt and wanted to vent. If you are in this hobby long enough, it happens to everyone at least once. But what is the point of the encore presentations? Nobody compels us to participate in auctions against our will. It's like going hunting. Somedays you bring home nothing but a cold. If it happens repeatedly and you don't like it, take up crossword puzzles as your hobby. So I'm not real sympathetic to the chronic "volunteer victim" syndrome. But when you start accusing someone of repeatedly engaging in illegal and unfair trade practices, you should be most grateful for the partial anonymity electronic forums such as this afford us. Otherwise you can find yourself as the hunted, not the hunter. We get your point, Larry. Now what do you want to happen next? We try to shut down a business? We engage in a collective economic boycott of a business? The former requires substantial evidence (fraud is tough to prove, even if it really exists). The latter requires conspiratorial cooperation with the very people who are outbidding us. This is not my day job. It is my hobby, my release from the stresses of life. I presume most of us feel that way. Relax a bit. I'm sorry your hobby is eating at you. If you want real heartburn, try competing in a contest I read about: fastest time to solving Rubik's Cube, while blindfolded.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Todd- I woke up this morning to see parts of Larry's thread was XXX'd out, but it appears that he accused my auction of being rampant with shill bidding (please correct me if I am not the name that was deleted).

If I am correct then Larry's posts were not harmless. This is how I make a living, and I can't have people accusing me of things that aren't true, thus hurting my business.

And I started a very sarcastic thread apologizing to this miscreant, since I am obviously angry. If Leon or Dan want to delete it they have my permission.

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Posted By: leon

I won't edit my other posts as you have a few thoughts I partially agree with.

1. OK, he's not a troll but he is anonymous
2. As I already stated he had many good posts on the postwar side....
3. He might not be an idiot but he acted that way....I feel that is a better statement...
4. He didn't follow a very important rule about anonymity and continued after repeated warnings.

You have a right to express your opinion and I respect it. Anyone else that won't follow rules after repeated warnings will be dealt with accordingly. Just because he is banned now doesn't mean it has to be permanent....

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Posted By: paulstratton

Don't sweat it too much Barry, we all know you are a man of integrity.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Thanks Paul, that's kind of you.

But in that aforementioned thread he did threaten me, stating in my next auction someone may win some lots and then stiff me. That is something I just can't take lightly. And I still have no idea who he is.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Larry (and how did you get back on): you refused to play by the board rules and post your last name, even after several requests to do so. That is the board defintion of a troll.

I don't know Henry Yee and have never bid in his auctions. I have no opinion about how he runs his business.

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Posted By: paulstratton

I was following the HYee auction thread but missed the part where he threatened you. Wouldn't you be able to tell if he was bidding in your auction? I guess he could have someone else bid for him or something.

As a side note...
Do you ever get nervous when a new bidder you don't know starts running up bids on high $$ material in one of your auctions?

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Posted By: leon

Your posts will continue to be deleted as long as you want to stay on your tirade. Even IF I agree with you, you just can't be anonymous making these accusations. Stay out of that kind of issue and you are welcome here. What if someone came on here anonymously trashing you? How would you feel? You don't even know who it is and they could be spreading lies.....or not....but regardless with no accountability (per a real full name) then this place wouldn't be a good venue in a short while....I have seen other boards and read quite a bit about the subject of moderation. And don't worry....there is a new version of s/w coming out for Net54 that will not allow someone back when they have been banned.....

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Posted By: barrysloate

Paul- that is always a concern but there is virtually no way to prevent it. There are safeguards, but if someone was determined they could get around them. Hopefully, this whole thing will go away quietly.

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

the bottom line is seeing ALL the posts where Leon or Dan 'xxx'ed' out Larry's comments and said put your name behind them and you're fine. It's a simple game. If you don't have the grapefruits to put your name behind it, you shouldn't have the ability to fire away on the board--simple as that. It's the rules and the rules should be for everyone.

As for the other side, all the pomposity and class warfare is between posters who are well known, put their name & email address next to their address. Don't agree with it, sometimes participate in it, but it also doesn't accuse someone who has a business of impropriety either.

I was following Larry's posts here yesterday and I think he had MANY, MANY opportunities to keep on posting by putting the last name out there. He didn't and was banned. As for then going on the Barry rampage, that's a reaction obviously to the banning.

I don't think he's a troll but I also don't think he should have some special dispensation to post without the details we all have to put down..........

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Posted By: Paul Muchinsky

As I am relatively new to this Board, I don't (and didn't) understand the undercurrents among the players. I thought Larry was complaining about Henry Yee's auction. That is all. Obviously there is more going on here than I realized. I had no idea somewhere along the thread you got in the cross-hairs. I'll stick to talking about round plastic objects.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Paul- because so many things were XXX'd out this morning I had to recreate what he said. I do believe he was referring to Henry Yee's auction at the top, but he then threatened to bid in my auction (or have someone else do it) and stiff me with the bill.

That is something that concerns me. As I said, I suspect this will all blow over. I have no hard feelings toward Larry, mainly because I don't even know who he is.

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Posted By: Todd Schultz

Barry,

I too thought the thrust of Larry's gripes were directed at Henry Yee. That doesn't make them right, and I have no beef with Henry, but there are several with expressed opinions on that seller--these can stand or fall on their own.

I can see where you might perceive Larry's last comment about bogus bidding and then reneging on your auctions as a threat, although the remark was somehat veiled and I personally didn't think he was threatening you. Frankly, any such action would be despicable, but would also subject the actor to legal problems, so it's not as if you would be completely unprotected, and there's nothing to say it can't happen anyway. That one remark, in my view, did not warrant banishment. Moreover, in all fairness, you called him a troll and called for his banishment before there was anything directed at you. Larry no doubt responded out of anger, and while I certainly don't condone threats, if that's what it was, I can understand why he might be miffed.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Todd- I know I can take legal action against a reneger, but I choose not to incur the expense or aggravation, if possible. Like I said, I trust/hope this will just blow over.

And to add, I did call Larry out and asked he be banned, agreed. However, he was told not to post unless he put down his last name, and then proceeded to post yet again anonymously. I just think it is not asking too much for people to follow the rules. I guess it just bugged me that he didn't.

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Posted By: Todd Schultz

Leon, what's done is apparantly done. My take on this is that Larry's posts should have been edited out completely once he failed to take advantage of the many opportunities to add his last name. If thread after thread of this continued, then banishment may have been appropriate. I only saw two such threads, and thought banishment was too drastic and/or too soon. There have been MANY who have questioned Mr Yee's auctions and not just in the past few days, so I didn't feel the "opinion" was so outrageous or devoid of any substance that Larry deserved to be kicked out rather than just deleted.

You know my views on censorship from prior threads involving a couple of other guys. I thought I needed to pick up a bat and make a plate appearance on this one as well. I know my language was fairly strong, and I will never be offered a job in the diplomatic corps, but you know it wasn't a shot at you as a person. In the end, I guess we all just did we thought we had to do. Life goes on, and I'll get back to cards now.

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Posted By: leon

Fair enough. I think you and everyone else on the board knows my view on censorship. I hate it......however, I hate anonymity even worse when there is heated debate or accusations made. If someone is warned multiple times to adhere to the rules OR if they become detrimental to the welfare of our community then I will act. Might I have swatted a fly with a sledgehammer? Maybe....but I don't think I make decisions too quickly on most things....however, when someone basically tells me to take a hike and they will do what they want to on the board then I get a little defensive and act quickly. As I have already said, this person can come back but they will need to adhere to the few easy rules we have. Take care and hope to see ya soon......leon

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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

These forums started to get silly about a week ago. Now they have sunk to a new low with harmful comments and anonymous trolling. As you all know, I love a to share a laugh more than most people, but things are really going off the deep end. As responsible adults, the majority of us do not require moderation--it's sad that a few childish posters have to ruin the usual fun we share here.