Lipset's Auction Results - High or Low?

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Posted By: Jon

I was just looking over the (unofficial) auction results from Lipset's auction and one lot that struck me as selling extremely high is lot #49 - The Obak and Piedmont cigarette boxes. Granted, the Obak does have 10 cigs still inside, and both boxes are NM condition... However, does that seem to warrant a top bid of almost $1250?! If so, I'm sitting on a gold mine here! Are there any other lots that seemed to sell high or low? I know this market is hit or miss... I just figured I'd start the talk!

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Posted By: TBob

It is always interesting to check out the day before bids and then follow up and see what the lot eventually went for. I think the lot you are referring to was waaay high. Good for Lew and his consignor but I wonder if the buyer just had a "price be damned" attitude in buying it. Prices on ebay for the 2 packages has been substantially lower. I was also surprised by the prices for the 1909 and especially the 1911 Obak sets which both went well above what I had thought. I am glad though, since I own both. maybe they are FNALLY picking up some steam as collectors realize their scarcity (1909s are just frigging rare) and great eye-appeal.
Finally, I would remiss not to mention I appreciate Andy B., Tom M., Leon, and everyone else who called or emailed their congrats on my FINALLY picking up the elusive last card in the T207 set, Ward Miller. To paraphrase the Grateful Dead, "what a long and strange journey it was."

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Posted By: runscott

I still haven't figured out what drives the market price on these. People seem to pay a lot for "unopened" packs produced by Piedmont and other companies that put t206's in their packs, but they pay these huge amounts despite the following:

-the pack, if it has a card, probably isn't a baseball card - could be military, flags, etc.

-older tax stamps were often used on newer packs, so that's no guarantee that the pack is even from the correct "t206 range" (those GAI...never mind)

-often the factory indicated on the pack is one that was never found on a t206

-some of the packs were "inspected" by nefarious means, but still "appear" unopened even though the owner knows what (if anything) is inside. Remember those evil tobacco beetles?

-so what if you find a t206 inside? the condidition is likely to make it only worth $100 or so anyway!

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Posted By: Chris

The Ned Williamson (heading out to the opera pose) Old Judge? I had to bail out once it went over $1400

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Posted By: Julie

did VEREY well for himself! 800-900!

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Posted By: jay behrens

Lot #176 was the one that I would have loved to have won. It was the lot of Obaks, T209 and T210s and Lew said that it was thought that all cards int eh group were former major leaguers. It sold for less than $16 a card. I'd love to be able to get those card for that price. Sadly, I don't have a big budget at the present time to sent on cards. Some day...

Jay

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Posted By: Jon

As Leon knows (since he has put up with hundreds of emails from me), I have tried in the last couple months to get a good handle on the prices of these packs... (Cig packs are my little angle to the hobby) When i purchase these packs, I pay special attention to Factory/District/State and tax stamps. I use the Springer's Guide to Cinderella Stamps in order to effectively date the packs, as well as a completely issuing chart I comprised to make sure that the cigs were manufactured in a corresponding factory. The Piedmont in the auction was correct, however the Obak seems to be far off... (There was no tax stamp present and Obak never printed Factory info on the packs - Obak's were, however, manufactured at 2 different plants and only Factory #171 packaged cards)

Unrelated - what does the board feel about the final prices for the Kalamazoo and the Yum Yum?

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Posted By: Albie O'Hanian

Julie-I won the card that you cannot see. I was happy with the price.

I would have liked to have won the E.R. Williams game card of Kelly and Foutz and I probably should have bid a lot higher on that card.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Lot 194 especially--was the whole set 83 including Ruth and Gehrig pose variations and it went for only $825. I've seen Ruth alone pull $500 and not in ex+ condition either (although out of an abundance of caution I'd have to assume that the card is really about vg-ex). The break value on that lot is a heck of a lot more.

I suspect that some lots with an aggregation of materials maybe turned off some bidders by asking too much money for too much chaff. Lot 280 is a perfect example. It had 206 different 1920's exhibit boxing cards and sold for $1612, which represents only 5 bids and around $8.60 a card with the vig thrown in. That's pretty low given the presence of dozens of cards in the group that sell for $20-$40 regularly on ebay. Looking at the breakdown in the catalogue, I think this may have resulted from the fact that so many cards in one lot doesn't attract anyone except dealers looking for breakups. There was just too much stuff there for many collectors to bother with, especially with a $1,000 ($1,100) opening. Lot 282 was a junkfest with five decent cards and the rest just dreck (common British cards that no one collects, photos, etc.) that no advanced collector chasing the five main cards would want.

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Posted By: Jon

Sorry - Meant to say "Just So" - not "Yum Yum"!!

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Posted By: leon

I thought the KB and Just So went for about what was expected. Not too low not too high......from the few of each I have seen sold....regards

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Posted By: JC

I thought the zeenut Dimaggio w/coupon got some good action, for having a pin hole in it. I feel the Kalamazoo Bat went way to low. I was expecting 30+ on that lot. The Just So went at a fair price. For some reason, I just cound not pull the trigger on the BIG BOY lots, with the Mastro auction right around the corner.

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Posted By: Anonymous

I found that lot #1, the near 1952 Topps set with a graded 7 (oc) Mantle went for a good price. On eBay right now, a PSA 6 Mantle is up at $11,100 alone. I realize this set is probably too new for most of you on the board, but you still have to appreciate the price!

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Posted By: runscott

But I too had a problem pulling the trigger on a bunch of reasonably-priced items, just because Mastro's coming up and I don't know what might show up. The Boston Beaneater cabinets in particular should have gone way higher in my opinion - oversized beautiful photos, unique items, and probably the best known photos in existence of several major leaguers. Also, I thought the lot selection was great for type collectors, and there was plenty of nice pre-wwI stuff, just not items I normally collect.

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Posted By: Adam J. Baxter

I didn't throw down any bids this time around, however, I thought the selection was pretty decent. If I had the cash to burn I'd have gone after the Stovey Worcesters cabinet. I have to agree that the 1899 Beaneaters went for less then I thought they would have, considering the stir they created due to their scarcity and Wayne Grove's great article in Beckett Vintage. Apparently, folks are clutching their wallets close and waiting for a chance to bid on what Mastronet has to offer. Still, overall I thought Lipset's auction was pretty good.

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Posted By: Tbob

There is a T207 Downey in it, I'd like to make you an offer on if you are inclined to perhaps part with it.
TBob (trophybob@aol.com)

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Posted By: Julie

and I don't really have any plans for bidding in Mastro.

I owe Terry K. 5.2K, and he's also looking for something for me...

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Posted By: Mark Macrae

Jon & others... with regards to your statement ("There was no tax stamp present and Obak never printed Factory info on the packs - Obak's were, however, manufactured at 2 different plants and only Factory #171 packaged cards") .........I presently own two full packs of Obaks....10 count & 12 count & have owned several dozen other Obak "slide n shell" boxes over the years. Both of those that I posess have the Factory 171 designation on the side panel of the pack. Since I am a variation collector, I know that I would have kept any subtle variation in the box design if I ever found such a variation.From my research the 10 count packs of Obaks were most likely the boxes that contained the T-212 cards. The 12 count packs include the Liggett & Myers affiliation and likely came out shortly after the T-212 promotion ended.In any case, the Factory designation is on the side panel of the box......For those interested the "Mouthpiece" which is described on the front of the pack is nothing more than a "filter-sized" piece of paper..... without the filter..... added on to the cigarette... almost like a short drinking straw

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Posted By: rmacpa

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Posted By: Julie

Actually, you should try to get (I KNOW it's almost impossible) the N173. It's kinda hard to see what he's doing in the N172. Jay Miller told me the N173 was in a lot by itself in the Halper auction--way toward the end. he'd already spent as much time there as he wanted to, so he left a bid for it" for about twice what I thought it ought to go for." He came in second.

Murphy's law: leave a limit bid, and you'll come in second.