Ty Cobb Mounted Cabinet Photo

[T206Jim]

Here is my latest find, a circa 1925 mounted cabinet photo of Ty Cobb believed to be from spring training in 1925.

The Tigers spent the spring in Augusta, Georgia from 1922 to 1926. The Tigers only wore the two toned type of sock in 1925 and 1926. The photo including the mount, in a decorative embossed style, measures 8 x 10. The photo has nice silvering to the darker portions only when shown at an angle. I have included enlarged shots of Cobb himself which clearly show his profile. Judging by Cobb's own line of sight and the umpire's sway back posture, I'd say the Georgia Peach has just ripped one into the gap.

In the background note the other players seated in front of the rope, the pole and mesh backstop the woman is clutching, the great period dress throughout the crowd and the vintage automobile at the far right parked just behind the screen.

If anyone has any observations or further information about this photo I'd love to hear from you.

[vthobby]

Jim,

Very nice indeed. I love the reaction of the ump. He is like WHOA! as he leans back from the backblast of Cobb's weapon. Very cool.

Peace, mike

[Webster]

To me, it appears that Cobb may have missed his mark. None of the spectators are looking toward the field (where a batted ball would presumably be); the catcher looks to be standing up and reaching into his glove; and the umpire is more plausibly saying strike - and not WHOA!

[vthobby]

Some folks are looking at Cobb, some are looking to the field including at least one player on the bench, and the rest of the crowd is like a 2014 crowd (they are spacing out, talking to one another, sleeping, or looking at butterflies).
The catcher could be catching a ball or he could be reacting like anyone would when the mighty cobb swang (swung?). The ump is a spring training ump and he could be loaded for all we know. His car is in an opportune place for a quick getaway.

Who knows. I think Cobb swatted the ball. You say he did not. I like my version better. Much more satisfying.

peace, mike

[Jobu]

That is a great photo - where did you find it?

[T206Jim]

The photo was first found at a flea market in Georgia by the previous owner. I purchased it on eBay, where you can still sometimes find a real gem if you are lucky.

[gnaz01]

Originally Posted by T206Jim

The photo was first found at a flea market in Georgia by the previous owner. I purchased it on eBay, where you can still sometimes find a real gem if you are lucky.

Jim, nice photo. Just a question: Are there any identifications or anything to prove it is indeed Ty Cobb?? I saw it on eBay myself and was just a bit skeptical, but that is just me

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by gnaz01

Jim, nice photo. Just a question: Are there any identifications or anything to prove it is indeed Ty Cobb?? I saw it on eBay myself and was just a bit skeptical, but that is just me

I was thinking the same thing. This individual looks to svelt and young for someone of Cobb's visage, in my opinion, especially considering Ty was in his fortieth year in 1925.
Again, just my opinion. Cool photo though nonetheless. 😁

[T206Jim]

A reasonable question on the identity and one I could only have confidence in answering upon having the photo in hand and magnifying it. Based on the following factors I am convinced it is indeed Cobb.
- the left handed swing looks like other photos of Cobb
- Cobb was 6'1" and 175 and remained svelte throughout his career, he stole 22 bases in 1927.
- it he photo was found in Georgia where the Tigers trained from 1922-1926 and the photo is obviously from spring training.
- the tigers wore those socks and a dark cap from 1925 to 1926.
- the enlarged headshot is the clincher, for me it certainly looks like Cobb.
- there are no notations on the back, only oral provenance facts from prior owners which though unverifiable sound so to me.
Taken together these facts leave me convinced that it is Cobb, but draw your own conclusion.

[Huysmans]

You make some excellent points Jim, and I do hope it is Cobb.
The one point we don't share, is that the indivual, visually, is positively Cobb.
It certainly could be, but I'm not too sure. Again I hope it is, and you seem confident which is good.
All the best.

Oh, and no one stays perfectly svelt into their 40's, we all get a little thicker, I know this firsthand. 😝

Regards,
Brent

[T206Jim]

Brent, I appreciate your perspective, but take a close look at the nose, ear and hairline and then compare these features to other Cobb photos. I think you will find a striking resemblance.

[vthobby]

Here is a 1927 photo of him with the A's. 291%20Ty%20Cobb%20Phil%20A's%201927.jpg

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by vtgmsc

Jim,

Very nice indeed. I love the reaction of the ump. He is like WHOA! as he leans back from the backblast of Cobb's weapon. Very cool.

Peace, mike

+1. I believe it is Cobb, and you can just see from the photo that Cobb really SLASHED that one, and was hardly the punch and poke hitter many portrayed him to be!

Great shot,

Larry

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by Webster

To me, it appears that Cobb may have missed his mark. None of the spectators are looking toward the field (where a batted ball would presumably be); the catcher looks to be standing up and reaching into his glove; and the umpire is more plausibly saying strike - and not WHOA!

Cobb is pretty clearly watching the ball; the spectators simply haven't reacted as fast, IMHO.

Best,

Larry

[vthobby]

Just for comparison....


images6E2NRQMM.jpg

[chipperhank44]

I saw this on ebay as well. I think there's a decent chance it's Cobb, just wish his jaw line showed, his most recognizable feature aside from his eyes IMO. Very nice pickup!!

[Runscott]

If you handed me that photo, and didn't say anything else about it, I wouldn't have guessed it was Cobb. I also wouldn't have guessed that that was spring training in Augusta.

On the other hand, it's obviously someone 'big', because of all the people standing behind the rope. Cobb makes sense.

I would try to find more photos of the Augusta Spring Training facility.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by T206Jim

Brent, I appreciate your perspective, but take a close look at the nose, ear and hairline and then compare these features to other Cobb photos. I think you will find a striking resemblance.

Jim, I honestly can't see it. The closeup photo looks like a man of a much younger age, especially when enlarging the 1927 A's photo posted of Cobb, and comparing the two. The hair, face etc. Plus, the individual in your photo looks thin and lanky. Again, when you look at
The '27 A's photo of Cobb, he looks thicker, more filled out.
And lastly, I also would never have even thought Cobb if I would have found that photo.
I don't claim to be an expert, but I trust my instincts.
I'm not trying to be a jerk and rain on your parade Jim, just trying to be completely honest, just like I'd want anyone to do for me in the same position.

Again, all the best to you Jim,
Brent

[Econteachert205]

I also saw the photo on ebay. I debated buying it as I love cobb photos. I passed because I don't see enough of his face that I can trust one way or the other that it is cobb. It very well could be, but I see no way to prove/disprove it.

[T206Jim]

To me the face looks like a 39 year old man, which Cobb was. He was always lanky in his playing days, just take a look at his A's photo. Brent, I suppose we'll just have to agree to honestly disagree and leave it at that, but it is an interesting debate.

[ctownboy]

I do not know if it is Ty Cobb or not that is pictured. But my biggest problem with the picture being Ty Cobb is the crowd that is there (or, more precisely, the lack thereof).

If this is Spring Training in Georgia in 1927 and that is Cobb, I would think there would be MORE people standing close by to watch the great one bat.

Yes, I get it that it is ONLY Spring Training BUT, Cobb was from Georgia and was still a huge star in 1927. Since there were no MLB team in Georgia or even close by back then, I would have expected people standing five and six deep around the batting cage to see Cobb hit. I also wouldn't expect a vehicle to be parked so close to the field (more people could get in close to see him bat without the truck there).

If everything else was equal and this photo were supposed to be from 1907 then, yes, I could see such a small crown since Cobb wasn't well known at that point. But 1927, I would expect more people to be watching.

Anyway, my two cents,

David

[T206Jim]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. Here is a 1911 M110 Sporting Life cabinet card that shows his profile nicely.

[Runscott]

No 'leap of faith' photos in my collection. Stuff like that in the house would drive me nuts. I hope you get it figured out.

Sent from my SM-G730V using Tapatalk

[Michael B]

Are you sure it is not Charles Comiskey or Joe Jackson?

[Runscott]

In fairness, this isn't anywhere near that level of 'leap of faith'. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the OP was able to determine definitively that it is Ty Cobb.

[the-illini]

When did umpires first start wearing that style of chest protector? Might help date it...

[Econteachert205]

The best ID might be that left ear.

[T206Jim]

Here are a few swing profile photos across his career, Dennis I think you are on to something with the ear being a key identifier.

[Luke]

I agree with Dennis. That ear looks like a pretty good clue. I was also skeptical at first, but now I would bet that it is Cobb. I still think you need to do some more detective work to "prove" it's him, but to me it seems more likely than not. Nice pickup Jim!

[the-illini]

Just my opinion, but from what is visible of the face, I don't think it can be proven to be (or not be) any specific person. Resembles Cobb, but to me that is where it ends.

If you could prove that those are Detroit players, then I think you would have something.

[atx840]

Ty Cobb at Comiskey Park in a batting stance, 1926. Note Cobb's split hands hold on the bat. Unlike most players, Cobb felt he gained more control over the bat with this grip.

[Jobu]

I tried a few things that might help.

I found a shot of the side of Cobb's face and tilted it to put it side by side with Jim's photo at a similar angle (Jim's is on th left); I also made Jim's photo into black and white and darkened it up. I then took the same image and covered the bottom of Cobb's face on the guaranteed Cobb image to help the comparison. It looks like Cobb to me.

Another clue that nobody is discussed is the guy on deck. I looked at 1925 box scores on baseball reference (http://www.baseball-reference.com/te...e-scores.shtml) and it looks like Harry Heilman hit behind Cobb frequently that year. I also posted Jim's photo of the on deck hitter. Does anyone recognize him? Obviously the guy hitting behind Cobb in spring training might not be the guy who hit behind him during the season.

[Runscott]

Well, the ears don't match. But the photo is blurry, so I wouldn't discount it being Cobb, just based on that.

[t206hound]

Originally Posted by Jobu

Another clue that nobody is discussed is the guy on deck.

It looks like more of a "C" than a "D" on the uniform of the on deck batter... and no insignia on the cap either. Don't know what the boys wore during spring training back in the day, though.

[T206Jim]

Here are closeups of the players on the bench, as you can see some have insignias on their caps and some don't, some are in dark jerseys, some in long sleeves, some in short sleeves such as the on deck batter. My guess for a spring exhibition and given the informal setting loose dress was par for the course. Also attached is a photo of Heilman which is a possibility for the on deck batter, note the corner of the mouth, but hard to say as it is just too fuzzy.

[yanks12025]

I'm sorry but these threads are funny when someone thinks a famous ball player is in a photo. If someone disagrees and doesn't think the player is a match, the OP goes in defense mode and has defend/grasp at straws as to why it is that player.

No one will ever know if this photo is Cobb unless you find the same photo again in a newspaper with it saying Ty Cobb. As of right now it's just a blurry photo of a baseball player hitting a baseball.

[sayhey24]

I don't know enough about spring training in the 20s to answer this -- would a major league team be playing on an open field with no dugouts? -- it looks like there is just a bench, and there are fans sitting on the bench along with the couple of players who are visible.
And are we sure that the players we see in the bench area are on the same team as the batter? If that's the Tigers at bat, where are the other twenty or so guys?
I'm also wondering about the corner of a structure you can see behind the umpire in the full shot -- what is that?
Bottom line -- it's a real nice photo!

Greg

[T206Jim]

Thanks for all the interest, believers and doubters alike, it has been fun and enlightening. I just had several items framed and thought everyone might enjoy seeing this piece framed in a vintage tiger oak shadowbox for display in my collection.

[iowadoc77]

Jim, framed photo looks excellent. Very nice piece!

[joeadcock]

Originally Posted by iowadoc77

Jim, framed photo looks excellent. Very nice piece!

Jim

Agreed, it is a nice looking piece in the frame.

[sporteq]

how about the hair line behind the ear. Ty Cobb looks to have a curve. The guy in the cabinet has a straight line from ear to neck. Wutcha think?

Albert

[Enfuego]

Very cool photo of the Georgia Peach.

[1880nonsports]

I remember a while back the ear analysis - not sure whom the poster was but perhaps his return would be helpful. Neat photo and I've enjoyed the read. I'm in the unidentified camp but feel there is fertile ground for continued exploration.

[GoldenAge50s]

I think BOTH the ear & nose are a match for Cobb as I study the photos offered.

We need Mr Marlowe's help on this one.

[bmarlowe1]

Useful ear analysis (or other feature comparison) not feasible - this photo as posted is way too blurry, that's why I haven't commented on it. It also may be too blurry in hand. You could say it could be Cobb, but I would not advise anyone to buy this with that expectation. See post #36.

If someone has a photo of Cobb in a very similar position, some body proportion comparisons might be made. However that is usually difficult and would not likely be conclusive.

[Shoeless Moe]

Could you show the other side of the photo, the side that shows his hands.

[T206Jim]

Since I posted the photo last fall I have examined quite a few Cobb photos out of curiosity. As some still appear to be curious I’ll let you in on what I found, but lest any potential buyers feel the least angst, this is purely for entertainment purposes as I am far too fond of the photo and the scene depicted, Cobb or not, to sell it in the foreseeable future.

Let’s start with the overall batter. Here is my photo next to a known Cobb swing photo just a tad later in the follow through on a ball hit to right rather than left or center. Note the stride, the shoulders and overall posture.

Ty-Cobb-cabinet-batting Net 54 small.jpg cobb-swiniging Net 54.jpg

As for the slenderness issue, here is a 1925 photo of Cobb still looking slender, he is broader across the waist which shows in a forward photo, but had not developed the belly forward that would show in a side shot, my shot shows the hips directly from the side. For full participatory credit strike this pose in front of mirror at 90 degrees to it and notice how much slimmer you appear with your legs sprawled wide, just don’t even try to explain to your wife what you are doing.

1925 ty cobb- Net 54.jpg

Before we move on to the profile views, here is the ump in my photo next to a known 1922 photo of an AL umpire. Same chest protector and uniform.

Cobb-photo--umpire small.jpg 1922 AL umpire garb Ed Walsh-same as Cobb photo - Net 54.jpg

Now let’s examine Cobb’s profile. Here is the zoomed headshot portion of my photo next to several other profiles and a head on shot that showcases a pertinent feature of Cobb’s ears. Note on the forward facing shot the extent that the back of Cobb’s ears protrude, now look at my photo and note how the back of his ear almost disappears the way his head is rotated to the right, I posit that is because the back of Cobb’s ear which protrudes is pointed towards the camera. In the profile with the bat you can see the nose and ear are similar, remember his head is less rotated than in my photo, allow for the rotation and the back of the ear starts to disappear. I include the other profile of an older Cobb to accentuate the nose, ear and hairline similarities. You may also want to go back to Bryan’s nice work with his composite photo post.

Ty-Cobb-cabinet-photo-zoom-web-head.jpg Cobb Brown Brothers - Net 54.jpg

cobb-side-1923-25-web- Net 54.jpg Cobb side - Net 54.jpg

I am in the legal profession, so forgive me the legal reference but I think it is apt. To sum it up, I believe under a civil “preponderance of the evidence” that it is Cobb, but under the criminal “beyond a reasonable doubt” I can’t get there (probably only a annotated photo would). I appreciate the uncertainty would drive some of you mad, but fortunately for me and my enjoyment of the photo I am quite satisfied with the way things stand and have enjoyed working on the mystery. Thanks again to all and happy collecting I hope you've enjoyed the conversation as much as I have!

[vintagehofrookies]

I can see how one would think that is Cobb in that photo as the profile is similar