History, Fun, Friendships, Baseball Cards, Good Times and Lawsuits????

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Posted By: John

To my fellow collectors,

Earlier this evening I made a funny image, trying to bring a light hearted side to some pretty cheap shots at another collector’s collection of lower grade cards.

The usual stuff PSA 1 stuff junk, get job, buy some real cards etc. The level of arrogance on this board amazes me sometimes, many of you in another thread told us lighten up its only baseball cards, don’t be so serious. Well I wish I could, in fact that’s the main reason I come here to lighten up and talk cards.

I made an innocent mistake earlier this evening and included two words in clear joking manner on a line of text in an image.

And I find this in my inbox.....





To Whom It May Concern

Whilst you are certainly free to act out your uncontrollable
child like tendencies and attack us in any way that Moderator
permits. However, we would call to your attention that The “BLANK”
“BLANK” is a registered “BLANK” Corporation.

Your action on a public board violates the legal protection
given our logo and, in fact, misinforms the General Public
as to a non-existent subsidiary.

We have, on retainer, one of the largest patent and trademark
law firms in the United States. If you do not remove the
post immediately, we will institute a law suit against you.
.
We will do everything we can within the realm of the law
to enforce the suit and collect damages. At very least
it will cost you tens of thousands of dollars in legal
fees and consume a great deal of your time.

We expect that you will act appropriately.








So I know there are forum rules about posting emails I’d ask Leon to please allow this to fly. Or give me the boot, I can take it.

I also don’t want a pile on anybody thing here either, not my intention at all.

Hey I have a corporation as well and I respect this persons business and or rights. I apologize if I crossed some so called line (which I don’t think I did). I also don’t think I would EVER go to this extreme but hey whatever to each his own. I would also hope that this person is intelligent enough to draw the line between me picking on him and his way with words vs. disparaging against any business (which I find to be a huge stretch for the record) name he may have had or currently has which I had no prior knowledge of.

What I want from this is everyone to take a step back, take a breath and say. This is only baseball cards, were all a bunch of big kids who collect cards. It’s ok if we disagree; butt heads, heck even rib one another once and awhile.

As for my thoughts on this subject. The day I need to potentially consult a legal team for typing words on an image making a joke on a public BASEBALL CARD forum, is a day WE have to say lighten up!

Best Regards,

John

*Edited, I decided to make Leon’s job a bit easier and eliminate any and all names from the email.**

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Posted By: Perry Eaves

"This is only baseball cards, were all a bunch of big kids who collect cards. "

I am confused Wonka. You ridiculed me for the exact same sentiment earlier several times. You even went so far as to attach my name to some graphics because of our differences of opinion. Perhaps you should consider taking your own advice my friend. While I disagree with a lawsuit, it is true that many of your comments are libelous.

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Posted By: dennis

your posts are always fun and your collection is from what i have heard is very impressive. but, you always take time to defend the arm pit collector and that is really a fine quality( to defend the less fortunate) unlike a small few of the elitests who post here. best remove the name in your post as to not smear the royalty. some people just over react.

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Posted By: John

Perry, make no mistake and don't twist the facts. I ridiculed you for making comments about peoples collections.

Any of this ring a bell….

“This is not life and death folks. "all this fuss over small group of low grade t206 cards" Correct.”

“Why would anyone want to accumulate a pile of psa 1 junk?”

“it is true that many of your comments are libelous”

Of what, if voicing an opinion of someone is against the law..Then dare I say were all going to be in court together??



*Dennis, thanks the image has been corrected if any one really noticed…*

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Posted By: Perry Eaves

Wonka,

"This is not life and death folks. "all this fuss over small group of low grade t206 cards" Correct.”
That just happened to be what the matter was about. It could have been mid-grade goudeys. Who cares. Irrelevant. If he had high grade t206 and came on the board and cried like a baby it would have been the same.

“Why would anyone want to accumulate a pile of psa 1 junk?”
By my way of thinking psa 1 is junk. Just an opinion. We all have a right to an opinion. When you make it personal or take a family name and attach it to graphics then you are crossing the line in my opinion.

You even equated it to someone calling your kid a retard. Are you serious. If someone calls my kid a retard we have a problem. No matter what you say about my collection I could care less. Big difference. If you are actually equating your children to your ballcard collection that is unhealthy my friend.

A gentleman earlier posted a link to my feedback record. That too is also over the top but no big deal. It showed that I purchased a T3 Mathewson in only Psa 4 so it shows I will buy low grade also.

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Posted By: Perry Eaves

Hey Dennis, you stated that he defends the less fortunate "arm pit collectors". Don't you think that comment makes you an elitist. If you collect low grade cards you are equated to an arm pit? You have got to be kidding.

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Posted By: John

Correct Perry, because IMO calling someone’s cards junk, with really no further explanation has about as much tact as calling someone’s untalented child artist a retard. I was pointing out what I thought you could understand, in fact I was making an analogy since you seem to like them so much (corvettes).

I’ll tell you what I wont sully your good family name with my horrible image (LOL), besides you were doing just fine making an ass of yourself and ruining your name before I ever opened Photoshop.

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Posted By: Perry Eaves

Hello again Wonka, you have just made my point. You post stating we should all respect differences of opinion and then you make it personal. Why do you have to call me a name? I think PSA 1 cards are junk so I am an ass. Isn't that just a simple difference of opinion my friend? Because I do not want to own a PSA 1 card there is a deficiency in my character as a human being? Your image did not bother me, its just a lame way to try to make your opinion right even though it is simply that, an opinion. Perhaps in our next disagreement you will call my mother a name. Good for you. Just ball cards my friend. Not life or death. Why get personal?

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Posted By: John

No Perry you’re an ass for the way you went about saying it. There’s a big difference in saying things example. Someone shows you a pile of PSA 1’s

The Right way…”I’ve never been a huge fan of PSA 1’s I would rather have 5 really nice ones vs. 50 PSA 1’s IMO. However that’s a nice collection you have."

The Wrong way… “Why would anyone want to accumulate a pile of psa 1 junk?”

The Right Way...I just took a look at your feedback….nice looking T3 Matty congrats.

The Wrong Way...“Hey that’s a real dog of a PSA 4 nice streaks on the front who slipped the grader $50 bucks to squeeze that into a 4 holder. What’s a matter couldn’t afford the PSA 7, who the heck wants a bunch of PSA 4 T3’s anyways.”


Any more clear for you??

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Posted By: dennis

perry the armpit collector is a term used here created by jim c. it's pretty much a joke on this board. funny thing is i agree with your post and the drama involved in the selling of joes t206 collection (and i think so does john.) a lot of people who post here can only afford low grade cards. since you are a new poster and joe has been around here awhile some people chose to defend him because he is a good guy.i think if you had been posting for awhile or inserted a that would have helped as i think you were being serous but funny.but it came off as arrogant.

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Posted By: Perry Eaves

Hello Wonka, this is fun. I enjoy some good banter. Again you called me a personal name and I don't understand that. Why is that necessary under any circumstance? You are comparing my T3 Christy Mathewson Psa 4 to some psa 1 t206 commons. Come on my friend. I wouldn't have bought in psa 1 although many people would. Good for you and them. Just not my cup of tea. Why call me names because of it? Again just my opinion. I hope to upgrade in the future but cannot locate t3's as often as I like. Would you happen to have Mathewson in a higher grade?

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Posted By: John

Dennis, you are correct. I do agree with Perry on the whole drama and announcement in that thread in fact I even made a funny post about I would have made for TV movie. For Christ sake I had Jim J. Bullock and TV’s Thurston Howell in the thread, how often does that happen here that’s got to be worth a few points.

Perry, I think you and I are splitting hairs I see your point I can only hope you see mine. You came off pretty nasty with that pile of junk comment regardless if you see that or not.

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Posted By: Perry Eaves

My apologies Dennis, I have always considered myself an armpit but that is another story. Thank you for taking the time to respond, unfortunately I do not know how to make the smily faces etc. You sound like a good guy and no offense intended.

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Posted By: dennis

actually this is real mild stuff here. stick around.

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Posted By: John

Perry again you miss the point.

“You are comparing my T3 Christy Mathewson Psa 4 to some psa 1 t206 commons. Come on my friend.”

I can tell I ruffled your feathers with my example, good you should be miffed the Matty is a nice card. But once again you insinuate that it’s better than someone’s PSA 1 T206 common. Monetarily yes, but its not always about money to some people that T206 common beater is a real treasure, and its pretty tacky to call it junk.

I dont understand why you cant see that?

I can’t make this any more clear, I also enjoy good banter as well, but I feel like I’m talking to brick wall here.

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Posted By: Perry Eaves

I agree with you Wonka. Our differences our not as big as we may think. Calling a PSA 1 card junk was in fact a derogatory statement and after reading the responses I actually changed my opinion. While I would prefer not to ever purchase a psa 1 card (not an elitist statement just a personal preference) I can relate to the sentiment. The most loved card that I own is an ungraded 1963 topps Pepitone which is bent to heck and even trimmed with scissors but I love it. My first card as a kid and it is amazing that I have held on to it. Someone gave it to me at a yard sale in the 70's and I was hooked. I would like to apologize to you also Wonka and to anyone else I have offended. Just cards, not life or death. Now who wants to trade or even better, if you are ever in Pensacola FL i will gladly flip my cards against the wall with you!

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Posted By: dennis

perry to put it simply any prewar card no matter what shape it is in is never to be insulted on this board, esp. t's and e's! keep on posting great to have you here. and flip over to the post war board as we have yet to have a rift there. but i know one is gonna happen soon.

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Posted By: John

Perry, I would also apologize for calling you an “ass” no hard feelings. Actually we have a lot in common I just took you wrong thanks for understanding why I may have done that to you. I too have some real “Gems” of my dads LOL which are some of my favorite cards so I know where you’re coming from on that.

As for flipping, I keep trying but these damn plastic cases keep throwing bits of plastic back at me, perhaps I should wear goggles.

Good Stuff,

John

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Posted By: Perry Eaves

I agree with you Dennis but, for some reason I cannot stomach a PSA 1 card. If you end up with some low grade cards great. I just cannot understand the actual pursuit of psa 1 but who am I? Just a human being who has an aversion to creased cardboard. With that said, I can relate to the feeling of grabbing an ungraded bent piece of "junk". Very satisfying and therefore would like to reverse my position. I'm sure wonka will call me a flip-flopper but I am prepared to deal with that.

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Posted By: dennis

well it's the middle of the night & we're on this baseball card board so you know we all have something in common.

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Posted By: Cobby33

I hope the largest patent law firm on the planet didn't advise "them" that "they" can collect money without proof of damages. Sheesh. My law students could have figured that one out.

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Posted By: rrrowe

dennis -

Sounds like you hit upon a GREAT Rule #1.

Please excuse my taking the liberty to close a couple loopholes in your rule proposal.

You stated, "any prewar card no matter what shape it is in is never to be insulted on this board"

I'd like to propose we modify it to read "Any authenticated prewar card, no matter what shape it is in, is never to be insulted on this board unless the current owner insults it first, at which point only the said card may be insulted and not the owner's collecting preferences."

Should it be "authenticated by SGC"? OR "authenticated by SGC or PSA"? OR "authenticated by SGC, PSA or GAI"? I've got to draw the line with Becketts though.

I can think of a couple others but knowing how long it takes getting a law through the moderators.....I better hold off for now.

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Posted By: Elliot

Yikes, just when this thread was becoming fun, it appears that Perry and Wonka will be singing Kumbaya together.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Yeah, Cobby, I was waiting for that to be pointed out. Threatening a lawsuit and actually bringing it are two pretty distinct animals.

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Posted By: Steve Murray

I can't beleive I read the whole thing!

P.S. Wonka: It's JM

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Posted By: barrysloate

I can't believe this thread started at 2:30 in the morning and went on through the night.

Maybe you guys are just cranky from lack of sleep.

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Well I hope you don't get sued. And it would be a silly lawsuit, but still a nuisance.


Some people here want to collect pristine graded cards, and see no purpose in collecting anything else. A few, like me, don't like graded cards, the ones we do buy we break out, and we see no purpose in the population reports and set registry and all. I've refrained from bashing slab folks lately. And this isn't to bash them now.

If someone wants to collect PSA 1s, I think that is fine. I don't think I'll ever collect slabbed cards. Personally, I find it easier to determine a card's authenticity if I can hold and examine it. For me, that is more accurate than putting faith in a PSA label. But... should I one day start trying to put together a graded set, the idea of seeking out PSA 1s so I could have the lowest registered set sure is attractive to me. I really think that's what I'd do.

For the guy trying to put together a bunch of affordable white border tobacco cards, let him buy ungraded cards in G-VG condition, he can learn about the cards, their production, the brands, the players, their history. He can hold a card in one hand and a black light in the other... He can understand the little rascals.


No law suits.

If they send more emails, post the entire email, names and all. I don't know who it is, but I don't want to do any business with them, ever.

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Posted By: jay behrens

I think it turned into a Kumbiah thing after they dropped some X together. The drug is known to make people all lovey-dovey and touchy-feely

Jay

The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: andy becker

hey frank,
john deleted the names, but the email threatening the lawsuit is written in the first person plural and begins with "whilst".

do you need any more hints

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Posted By: jay behrens

Just follow my business' slogan:

If it isn't creased, it doesn't make cents

Al Bundy

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Posted By: Steve Murray

I was under the impression that a corporation had to have an indicia thereof; e.g. Inc., Ltd., LLC, Limited, Incorporated, etc.

A personal name, e.g. B**** D*******, cannot be a corporation no matter how many of him there are.

I'm not sure why the name came out with *'s. Can anyone explain that to me?

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Posted By: leon

A few tidbits of thoughts here. There are rules against calling folks derrogatory names on the board. There are definitely rules against bringing folks families into the matter (my biggest pet peeve, just so you know)...and there are other rules for the protection of our community. I advise everyone to read the board rules so you at least understand what is accepted or not. We modertators (there are 3 currently, Brian, Elliot, and myself...not sure what happened to Bill's superhuman privileges but he says he no longer has them) try not to ever step in if at all possible. I know I do it as a last ditch effort to get back on track and don't do it too often. The other 2 do it far less than I do. "Never" would be the perfect amount but that is an utopian thought. So far I know of about 20-30 lawsuits threatened on this board...probably 1/3 - 1/2 of them directed at me. Before threatening a lawsuit everyone needs to read the Federal Statute 230, Bloggers Act, it was passed as part of the much-maligned Communication Decency Act of 1996. It says that whomever is the AUTHOR of something on a forum/blog IS LIABLE for what they write, but for the most part a moderator/owner isn't. As long as a moderator didn't personally write something, or change something that was written, then they aren't liable. It's a very strong law. As Cobby says damages must be shown too...however, and I am no lawyer, but I think I am aware of a case where no damages were shown and punitive damages awarded as a disciplinary act. I believe it can be done. Bottom line is you are liable for what you say on this board so please do be careful. I am glad this little tiff got worked out while I was sleeping. And please remember the easiest way to get kicked off this board is to bring someone's family into it....or repeatedly not do what a moderator asks you to do, when in line with board rules.....This will continue to be as open of a forum as is possible...One last thing...I have very little tolerance for anonymous posts that are inflammatory....and will delete them fairly quickly....best regards

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Posted By: jay behrens

Geez, I may have my disagreements with Leon, but at least I can say I've never threatened him with a lawsuit. That's just crazy.

Jay

The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: peter chao

John,

I've always found your posts and scans fun and enjoyable. However, we all need to exercise some caution when posting. Although there are laws against frivolous lawsuits, it may be expensive for a defendant to show that a lawsuit is frivolous.

Also it is unlikely that an experienced attorney's case will be thrown out at an early stage of litigation.

I've always believed that being civil in our postings is important. But it also turns out to be a very practical device for avoiding litigation.

Peter C.

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Well I agree with what Leon has posted, that sounds about right.

I'm too out of it and too dense to figure out who was upset with Wonka, but they'd have gotten better results with a kind request instead of a threat. I can't imagine an attorney would take that case for a percentage of the damages awarded, an attorney would would a retainer (big bucks) up front. So there would be no law suit, maybe a letter at most. Lawyers write letters for an affordable fee.

My recollection of antiquated maligning comments back here in Kentucky is a litany of horrible stuff to be done to a fellow, followed by the phrase "and the horse they rode in on." I can see how the origins of that sentiment, and the origins of a Texan's protectiveness of family, could have the same origins!

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

And just to keep this thread accurate Jim C. did NOT coin the phrase "Arm-pit collectors". I believe that was Leon who referenced himself as an "arm-pit collector" after the "backbone of the hobby" statements made by Jim C.

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Posted By: dennis

dan you are correct....leon coined it,but jim c. thought it. "osmosis"

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Posted By: Larry

The sad part is that...although the "resident elitist's" collection is understood to be quite a high grade gathering of vintage cards, compared to the collections of a few other high grade collectors who choose not to post here, it is like comparing a thimble full of stale water to a freshwater lake.

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Posted By: Al Simeone

One good point that is missed is collections. If this is what the person wants to collect(or can afford) who is anybody to just go out and tear it apart. I for one love looking at all types of collections weather cards or pins or memorabilia. As the old line goes one mans junk is another mans gold!!There are some very rare cards out there that are graded in the poor condition.Its always nice to see an item that we dont have in our collections be posted on the forum weather it be pr1 or gem 10. At least we know the item exists and " the search will be on".

Point 2 went we go off topic a thread like this is what usually happens! endless dribble not about cards but whos ego got bruised! Grow up a little people. Life is way to short . (believe me). Im always up for a good joke or line,and to steal a great line from a long ago post for lightening up.
"THESE PRETZELS ARE MAKING ME THIRSTY"
Thanks Leon Al

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Posted By: Paul

Wonkaticket,


I am sorry that someone who is not aware of the scope of his legal rights is using his financial resources in an attempt to intimidate you. First of all, the threat you received to use the legal process to harm you financially regardless of the merits of the underlying case is highly improper. I'm not sure if the person who sent it to you is an attorney or not, but if he is, he has violated the rules of professional conduct and can be disciplined by his state bar. If he is not an attorney, the consequences are less serious, unless you could prove damages, which seems unlikely here.

His claim that you have misused his "logo" seems frivolous. I haven't seen your post, so I can't really comment on the specifics. But the courts are very clear that you can use the logo or other trademark of anyone for the specific purpose of making fun of them. You can't use it to redirect business from the trademark owner to yourself, or to represent yourself as being the trademark owner, but it seems unlikely that that is what you have done on a public chatroom. Of course, if you wrote something that is false and damaging (libelous) that would be different.

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Posted By: bcornell

"We will do everything we can within the realm of the law to enforce the suit and collect damages. At very least it will cost you tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees and consume a great deal of your time."

Someone has the English language skills of a Romanian scammer. I'm surprised they didn't tell you to "update your accounts now, please".

More forum posturing to be ignored. Let's move on.


Bill

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Bill, I think you mean Nigerian scammer. I get about 4 of those a day. Still waiting for them to send all that money to my bank account.

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Posted By: bcornell

Jeff -

Did you win the Spanish lottery yet again? Congrats. They'll need $200 for processing fees.

How long until Willie Wonka Enterprisesâ„¢ sues Wonkaticket for infringement?



Bill

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Posted By: David Davis

I am sure that one of the largest patent law firms would be MORE than willing to go into open court to defend a client that had their (notice the pluarl) feelings hurt when talking about baseball cards.

Judge - Mr BLANK, please state your case:

Mr BLANK - "If it please the court. Whilst perusing the world wibe web, even though we know that the liberal leader Al Gore invented it, we happened upon a reference to our name taken in vain. We then were advised by our cadre of barristers and legal representatives to bring action against the defendant. The rogueish manner in which we are portrayed is insulting, inciteful, and dare we say, nefarious.

Judge - Mr. BLANK, what web site were you on.

Mr. BLANK - A web site for antiquities and emphemera as it relates to our national pastime.

Judge - You mean baseball cards?

Mr. BLANK - Yes your honor.

Judge - Case dismissed. If you bother our legal system with such frivoulous lawsuits again, I will lock you up.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Jeff- I also get the same emails daily from Nigeria and Lagos asking me to handle millions of dollars. It's amazing how many wealthy Nigerians have died in plane and car crashes, and every one of them has told their heirs: "if you need somebody in America to handle my fortune you must look up this Barry Sloate who lives in Brooklyn. You will be able to count on him to fairly handle my estate."

Isn't it fantastic that an entire country believes in me, and I've never even been there!

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Posted By: Anonymous

For some crazy reason he spells his first name without an "I"

Yes, I'm a geek.

Howard

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Posted By: jay behrens

I've never won the Spanish lottery, but I've won the Irish Lottery a number of times. I also seem to win a lot of free $500 gift cards to Home Depot, Target and other stores.

Jay

The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: peter chao

Howard,

Get with it, Geek is so outdated, it's nerd. You and me, we are nerds.

Peter C.

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Posted By: ScottIngold

"We will do everything we can within the realm of the law to enforce the suit and collect damages. At very least it will cost you tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees and consume a great deal of your time."


What an absolute waste and abuse of time and money.

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Posted By: boxingcardman

Case dismissed...