Era of auction without auction catalog

[chriskim]

We are almost in the era of auctions without auction catalogs, the most annoying thing is after one viewing an item then click "back" on the browser and it returns to the top of the previous page and you lost track where you were at before.

[mrreality68]

I agree that is very annoying.
I used to like the auction catalogs and actually enjoyed saving them from some of the auction houses but their are way to many auctions and to often so get to many and result no more space so now all gone.
The price is going up I am sure to both print them and mail them so not as profitable for the auction house.
Also in recent years they come later and later and I often get them at the end of auction and once or twice after it ended.
Many “modern” or new investors in the auctions do not use them but rely on the technology of online.
Now with the online interface, many auctions have preview etc I can see, some like HA have the app again making the printed catalog not as necessary

It will still take some time for them to truly go away because there is still value for it

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by chriskim

We are almost in the era of auctions without auction catalogs, the most annoying thing is after one viewing an item then click "back" on the browser and it returns to the top of the previous page and you lost track where you were at before.

Yup, there’s a few AHs that need help with the back function.

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by chriskim

We are almost in the era of auctions without auction catalogs, .......

In my view this is unfortunate, as I can much more quickly and thoroughly peruse an auction by turning the pages of the catalog than I can by viewing the listings online, and given the volume of AHs and auctions each year I am much more likely to take the time to go through the entirety of the listings if I have the catalog versus having to do it online.

[Snapolit1]

I hardly look at printed catalogs any more, and marvel at the cost of some of the mailings I've received recently. These are more to stroke the ego of the consignor than anything else. I don't need a catalog to tell me who Babe Ruth was or that Lou Gehrig caught a terrible disease and retired young, gave a moving speech, and then died 2 years later.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I don't need a catalog to tell me that Lou Gehrig caught a terrible disease and retired young, gave a moving speech, and then died 2 years later.

He WHAT???!!!

[Fred]

In 20 years they'll be a collectible. Someone's going to catalog them and then create a price guide. Eventually, PSA will grade them and that will lead to furious bidding on fleabay and AH auctions. Then the reprints will start showing up and things will come to a head when the grading companies have to admit that the reprints were difficult to detect and grading catalogs only provides a subjective opinion.

Better scoop them up while you can...

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by chriskim

We are almost in the era of auctions without auction catalogs, the most annoying thing is after one viewing an item then click "back" on the browser and it returns to the top of the previous page and you lost track where you were at before.

Right click the auction item "Open page in new tab", no need for the back button, and your spot is saved on the previous page.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

In my view this is unfortunate, as I can much more quickly and thoroughly peruse an auction by turning the pages of the catalog than I can by viewing the listings online, and given the volume of AHs and auctions each year I am much more likely to take the time to go through the entirety of the listings if I have the catalog versus having to do it online.

You and the other guy still peruse them, Corey. I rarely look at them anymore.

And if anyone doesn't know let me tell you, catalogs are done for consignors to get more consignments. It wouldn't matter if no one looked at them, they will still be printed. And as someone that had a catalog sale for their collection, it's what I wanted too.
.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Fred

In 20 years they'll be a collectible. Someone's going to catalog them and then create a price guide. Eventually, PSA will grade them and that will lead to furious bidding on fleabay and AH auctions. Then the reprints will start showing up and things will come to a head when the grading companies have to admit that the reprints were difficult to detect and grading catalogs only provides a subjective opinion.

Better scoop them up while you can...

But the big question is...will the reprints have that 'new catalog smell'?

Brian

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

He WHAT???!!!

Yes, you've never seen references to "Baseball's Gettysburg address"?????

[pawpawdiv9]

just hope the catalogs get a tad smaller PLEASE!!
The mailman shoves it in my mailbox and half the time gets stuck in it. Yeah, my carrier is lazy as s*it. You'd think it says priorty mail, it be treated like that.
Btw- they are beautiful to look at and smell, despite still looking online.

[perezfan]

Don't all the best auctions still have them? I like them and have honestly not seen much of a pull-back...

REA
LOTG
Huggins
Heritage
Lelands
Hunts
Mile High
SCP
Memory Lane
Clean Sweep

All still have them, and that's just off the top of my head. Isn't it still just the really small auctions that are viewable online only?

[nat]

Originally Posted by Fred

In 20 years they'll be a collectible. Someone's going to catalog them and then create a price guide. Eventually, PSA will grade them and that will lead to furious bidding on fleabay and AH auctions. Then the reprints will start showing up and things will come to a head when the grading companies have to admit that the reprints were difficult to detect and grading catalogs only provides a subjective opinion.

Better scoop them up while you can...

And to please consignors, auction houses will start printing catalogues for their catalogue auctions (that is, catalogue catalogues). Which will themselves become collectible, prompting auction houses to print catalogues for their catalogue catalogue auctions, and so on up...

[Fred]

Nat, if it aint a first edition printing, then I don't want it...

Not to hijack the thread but does anybody have a favorite catalog? I like the Halper Auction set of three catalogs. There was so much "stuff" in that catalog.

[Orioles1954]

Leon is right, print catalogs are done only for the consignor. Only about 10% of our mailing list receives a print catalog and the overwhelming majority of bids are placed online as opposed to those who review a catalog and call in.

[Jewish-collector]

The one good thing about catalogs that if you had a great collection consigned, the AH would create a separate catalog(s) for your collection like the Leon Luckey collection (Hi Leon !) and generations of the family can see what you had

[chriskim]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Don't all the best auctions still have them? I like them and have honestly not seen much of a pull-back...

REA
LOTG
Huggins
Heritage
Lelands
Hunts
Mile High
SCP
Memory Lane
Clean Sweep

All still have them, and that's just off the top of my head. Isn't it still just the really small auctions that are viewable online only?

Based on this list, Goldin is a small AH.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by chriskim

the most annoying thing is after one viewing an item then click "back" on the browser and it returns to the top of the previous page and you lost track where you were at before.

Right click on item, select "Open in new tab." Viola, no need for the back button.
Add: Ah, looks like someone beat me to it.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

He WHAT???!!!

What's even more crazy is he caught a disease that he shares a name with. What are the odds?!!?

[MVSNYC]

I'm old school, love flipping thru a good catalog. I have a nice collection of them, from a lot of special and important sales. Also friends like Anthony N and Rob Lifson have saved and given me some great older catalogs over the years.

One major pet peeve though...I cannot stand the ridiculous tabs in Memory Lane's catalogs; hope they stop using those.

[perezfan]

yeah... I hate those tabs too.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by chriskim

Based on this list, Goldin is a small AH.

ugh... I knew I forgot one

[rjackson44]

I have a couple of hundred of them.,Enjoy them .funny just read Leon’s catalog ,,

[MarcosCards]

Originally Posted by Fred

In 20 years they'll be a collectible. Someone's going to catalog them and then create a price guide. Eventually, PSA will grade them and that will lead to furious bidding on fleabay and AH auctions. Then the reprints will start showing up and things will come to a head when the grading companies have to admit that the reprints were difficult to detect and grading catalogs only provides a subjective opinion.

Better scoop them up while you can...

Ooooh, very nice wit and sarcasm to enjoy with my morning coffee. Thanks

[Gary Dunaier]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I don't need a catalog to tell me who Babe Ruth was or that Lou Gehrig caught a terrible disease and retired young, gave a moving speech, and then died 2 years later.

This was always a pet peeve of mine. I figure that if someone's going to spend big bucks on a card, or autograph or memorabilia of a certain player they already know who he is and don't need to read a biography, as if it's someone they've never heard of before. "Babe Ruth? Never heard of him. Let's see... sultan of swat... home run king... larger than life... Sounds like an interesting guy. Okay, I'll bid on it..."

Tell me more about the item itself - condition, provenance, background of the piece. That's what we want to know.

[mrreality68]

We will have these catalogs for a while. It over time they will go away
Just a matter of how long it will take
But remember as these go away and the auction houses save printing and shipping money do not expect them to pass the savings to their sellers and buyers.
The fees will not change and they will take that for their profit

[Eric72]

1. For me, flipping through a printed catalog is a much faster, more efficient process.
2. When I receive catalogs, my number of bids (and amounts) tend to be noticeably higher.
3. After using the catalog to zero in on items, I then login and add them to my watchlist.

Most importantly, catalogs don't get lost in a sea of emails/banner ads/Facebook posts/other online content. They sit on my desk until I have a game plan.

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by Leon

You and the other guy still peruse them, Corey. I rarely look at them anymore.

And if anyone doesn't know let me tell you, catalogs are done for consignors to get more consignments. It wouldn't matter if no one looked at them, they will still be printed. And as someone that had a catalog sale for their collection, it's what I wanted too.
.

I guess Eric must be that other guy Leon.

[bbcard1]

Most of the AH operators I have spoken to say that they keep doing them mostly because of the consignors. Many consignors are my age of older and believe that it is the only way bidders learn about an item.

As for me, I'd be happy if they didn't produce the catalogs. I have already generally perused all the offerings on line days before I get the catalog. I have tried but been unable to get auction houses to take me off their list (the same is true of other enterprises). I am not your typical "tree hugger" but I believe in incrementalism in correcting environmental issues. In other words, if something has no benefit, don't do it. I get no benefit from receiving a catalog, yet there is an environmental and financial impact from the printing (moderate) and distribution (considerable) of the catalogues. Me getting fewer catalogs won't change the world, but it won't hurt.

It's a lot like recycling. Very little of the stuff I put in recycling really ends up being recycled, but by creating a stream, we create the possibility it will be successful on down the line.

I also would like it a lot if the AH operators would use that savings to reduce commission percentages which have been creeping up quietly for a while, but that's probably not going to happen. That's fine. Running a business is hard and you have to get rewarded. It's my choice on whether to pay the piper or not.

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by bbcard1

Most of the AH operators I have spoken to say that they keep doing them mostly because of the consignors. Many consignors are my age of older and believe that it is the only way bidders learn about an item.

As for me, I'd be happy if they didn't produce the catalogs. I have already generally perused all the offerings on line days before I get the catalog. I have tried but been unable to get auction houses to take me off their list (the same is true of other enterprises). I am not your typical "tree hugger" but I believe in incrementalism in correcting environmental issues. In other words, if something has no benefit, don't do it. I get no benefit from receiving a catalog, yet there is an environmental and financial impact from the printing (moderate) and distribution (considerable) of the catalogues. Me getting fewer catalogs won't change the world, but it won't hurt.

It's a lot like recycling. Very little of the stuff I put in recycling really ends up being recycled, but by creating a stream, we create the possibility it will be successful on down the line.

I also would like it a lot if the AH operators would use that savings to reduce commission percentages which have been creeping up quietly for a while, but that's probably not going to happen. That's fine. Running a business is hard and you have to get rewarded. It's my choice on whether to pay the piper or not.

Hi Todd. You are correct that it’s mostly older consignors who want the catalog printed. H&S recognized years ago that the demise of the print catalog was upon us. We have slashed our circulation and offer a $10 credit per auction to any registered bidder who opts out of receiving a catalog. You can opt out at www.hugginsandscott.com. While $10 isn’t a lot it is something and is mutually beneficial for both bidder and auction house.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Eric72

1. For me, flipping through a printed catalog is a much faster, more efficient process.
2. When I receive catalogs, my number of bids (and amounts) tend to be noticeably higher.
3. After using the catalog to zero in on items, I then login and add them to my watchlist.

Most importantly, catalogs don't get lost in a sea of emails/banner ads/Facebook posts/other online content. They sit on my desk until I have a game plan.

Yep

[chriskim]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

We will have these catalogs for a while. It over time they will go away
Just a matter of how long it will take
But remember as these go away and the auction houses save printing and shipping money do not expect them to pass the savings to their sellers and buyers.
The fees will not change and they will take that for their profit

yup... buyer's penalty would just get higher and higher. No way that they would lower the penalty because they no longer needed to print catalogs in the future.

[Fred]

Just curious -

Does ANYBODY know how much a print run of REA catalogs costs to produce and mail? How many catalogs does an AH like REA create and mail out?

Does anybody have any inside knowledge to other AH catalog distribution numbers and costs?

[irishdenny]

Originally Posted by Fred

In 20 years they'll be a collectible. Someone's going to catalog them and then create a price guide. Eventually, PSA will grade them and that will lead to furious bidding on fleabay and AH auctions. Then the reprints will start showing up and things will come to a head when the grading companies have to admit that the reprints were difficult to detect and grading catalogs only provides a subjective opinion.

Better scoop them up while you can...

This was my 1st Catalog that I received in the Post!
Not one Slab in it...
& I even have the "Closing Price List" for each Lot...
Brings Back fond memories of how I came back to the US after spending 17 years underwater on the other side of the world (:

[BRoberts]

Originally Posted by Fred

Just curious -

Does ANYBODY know how much a print run of REA catalogs costs to produce and mail? How many catalogs does an AH like REA create and mail out?

Brian Dwyer probably knows.

[Jeff_cvc]

Originally Posted by bbcard1

Most of the AH operators I have spoken to say that they keep doing them mostly because of the consignors. Many consignors are my age of older and believe that it is the only way bidders learn about an item.

As for me, I'd be happy if they didn't produce the catalogs. I have already generally perused all the offerings on line days before I get the catalog. I have tried but been unable to get auction houses to take me off their list (the same is true of other enterprises). I am not your typical "tree hugger" but I believe in incrementalism in correcting environmental issues. In other words, if something has no benefit, don't do it. I get no benefit from receiving a catalog, yet there is an environmental and financial impact from the printing (moderate) and distribution (considerable) of the catalogues. Me getting fewer catalogs won't change the world, but it won't hurt.

It's a lot like recycling. Very little of the stuff I put in recycling really ends up being recycled, but by creating a stream, we create the possibility it will be successful on down the line.

I also would like it a lot if the AH operators would use that savings to reduce commission percentages which have been creeping up quietly for a while, but that's probably not going to happen. That's fine. Running a business is hard and you have to get rewarded. It's my choice on whether to pay the piper or not.

+1

[Orioles1954]

[QUOTE=Fred;2174229]

Does anybody have any inside knowledge to other AH catalog distribution numbers and costs?

Edited for clarification: It varies for H&S based on auction cycle, but still in the thousands.

[MVSNYC]

Denny, I have some of those old REA catalogs from the mid-late 90's...so many lots in those early catalogs would be museum pieces today, or even carry their own auctions (like Gehrig's [actual] uniform he wore during his luckiest man speech, in that catalog you posted...or the FIVE Cobb/Cobb backs in that auction. Insane stuff!). I love thumbing thru the old catalogs and shaking my head at the prices realized.

[spacktrack]

Originally Posted by Fred

Just curious -

Does ANYBODY know how much a print run of REA catalogs costs to produce and mail? How many catalogs does an AH like REA create and mail out?

Does anybody have any inside knowledge to other AH catalog distribution numbers and costs?

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

We are around 3,000 this auction cycle.

To be clear, Orioles1954 does not work for REA, but if you’re scrolling through these posts quickly, you might think he does based on the last response and since there’s no name or company link in his posts. Newer readers may not know who he is. REA considers information like mailing lists and related items, as I imagine many businesses would, to be proprietary. We do, however, have a long history of sending out a large number of free catalogs to anyone interested.

Brian

[botport]

I gave my REA catalog from the most recent auction to a friend today. I just recently found out he collects Clemente as he was his favorite player growing up. He loved the catalog. This guy could chase down lots that I wouldn't even be able to place an opening bid on. I wanted him to see how good the offerings are and hopefully sometime down the line, find something that he has been searching for. To me, I couldn't really do that very effectively without the catalog. Ya, I could have said go to www whatever and maybe he goes there or maybe he doesn't. High resolution scans are definitely great, but something in hand has merit also in my opinion. I love the catalogs, hope they never go away and also hope I am never removed from the mailing lists.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by spacktrack

To be clear, Orioles1954 does not work for REA, but if you’re scrolling through these posts quickly, you might think he does based on the last response and since there’s no name or company link in his posts. Newer readers may not know who he is. REA considers information like mailing lists and related items, as I imagine many businesses would, to be proprietary. We do, however, have a long history of sending out a large number of free catalogs to anyone interested.

Brian

He is James Feagin (hi James) and works for Huggins and Scott...
.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by spacktrack

To be clear, Orioles1954 does not work for REA, but if you’re scrolling through these posts quickly, you might think he does based on the last response and since there’s no name or company link in his posts. Newer readers may not know who he is. REA considers information like mailing lists and related items, as I imagine many businesses would, to be proprietary. We do, however, have a long history of sending out a large number of free catalogs to anyone interested.

Brian

Actually there was, in post #31 he mentions specifically he's with Huggins & Scott and has a link, etc. If you had actually looked through and read all the posts you would have seen that of course. And there were two questions in the post he responded to, and he was responding to the second question, not the first one directed at your firm. Since Oriole1954 had already posted multiple times in this thread, and fully identified himself as to who he was affiliated with, I can fully understand why he may not have felt it necessary to repeatedly state over and over in each and every post in this thread who he worked with.

For the record, both AHs are great and do a wonderful job in the services provided to the collecting community. And no, I don't work for either of them.

[spacktrack]

Originally Posted by BobC

Actually there was, in post #31 he mentions specifically he's with Huggins & Scott and has a link, etc. If you had actually looked through and read all the posts you would have seen that of course. And there were two questions in the post he responded to, and he was responding to the second question, not the first one directed at your firm. Since Oriole1954 had already posted multiple times in this thread, and fully identified himself as to who he was affiliated with, I can fully understand why he may not have felt it necessary to repeatedly state over and over in each and every post in this thread who he worked with.

For the record, both AHs are great and do a wonderful job in the services provided to the collecting community. And no, I don't work for either of them.

Hi Bob,

I read the posts pretty thoroughly and have followed the board for the last twelve years, which is how I know that not all readers take the time to follow information and identities. I know who the poster is, but there are apparently many new members joining all the time. Post 38 could have been confusing to some who didn’t take the necessary time to read the whole thread or who missed post 31. I wanted to clear things up in case anyone thought REA is only sending out 3000 catalogs.

Brian

[BobC]

Originally Posted by spacktrack

Hi Bob,

I read the posts pretty thoroughly and have followed the board for the last twelve years, which is how I know that not all readers take the time to follow information and identities. I know who the poster is, but there are apparently many new members joining all the time. Post 38 could have been confusing to some who didn’t take the necessary time to read the whole thread or who missed post 31. I wanted to clear things up in case anyone thought REA is only sending out 3000 catalogs.

Brian

Brian,

I hear you and understand exactly what you're saying. Just like you were making sure no one mistakenly thought Mr. Feagin was working for you, I was just being fair to him as well and not letting people think he had not bothered to identify who he worked with, since he actually had. You're both good.

By the way, your last auction was fantastic! Can't believe some of the items you had in it.

Bob

[Orioles1954]

Sorry if I caused any confusion this Sunday evening. Happy Holidays all and stay safe (my three children recently tested positive, it’s really ramping up out here, even if you’re vaccinated).

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

Sorry if I caused any confusion this Sunday evening. Happy Holidays all and stay safe (my three children recently tested positive, it’s really ramping up out here, even if you’re vaccinated).

So sorry to hear that, hope they all end up okay. One of my three had it also, fortunately nothing serious.

You have nothing to apologize for either.

[jh691626]

I think perhaps I am in the minority, but I still love getting the printed auction catalogs and read through them regularly.

I love to see the really high-end items, especially when they are unusual.
It's also great to see all of the "standard" items (most of which are well out of my price range). I also admit to liking reading the descriptions, which are occasionally cringy but still fun to read. It's all a bit like looking through someone's amazing collection and hearing a bit about each of the items.
My 13 y/o son (who is not a big reader) also loves to read them and read through the descriptions.

And there is no question I have read through the catalogs and identified items that way for bidding that I would have never had the patience to identify looking through everything on a screen, even with search functions since I don't always know what I will be looking for!

Again--I'm surely a dinosaur and in the minority...but I love them!

[chriskim]

I know well known AHs sent more than 5k catalogs each auction. I remember I read how many REA sent out from other source a few yrs back but don't think i should mention here and it might not be accurate anymore anyways. However, it is said that buyer's penalty won't be reduced even catalogs probably no longer needed in the future.

20% buyer's penalty + sales tax = lot of money!!!