W517 Minis

[paul]

I was very happy to win my first W517 Mini after years of searching. It's a gorgeous Paul Waner.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...9119924&_rdc=1

Do any of you have any thoughts on the value of this. I feel like I got a steal since it didn't cost me much more than a regular W517. But these things sell so rarely I don't have a good sense of their value. Thanks.

[scgaynor]

Seems like a good price for a nice looking card. A little history on these, pretty much all of them (maybe even all of them), came out of a collection that I purchased in Frederick MD in 1996. There were about 200 of these mini W517's and to the best of my knowledge they were uncataloged until that time. There were a few uncut strips of two cards (vertical), but most were cut singles. There were multiples of everybody and different color schemes just like regular W517's.

Scott

[paul]

Thanks, I had not heard that before.

[fkw]

Nice card, I missed it


(W517-2)

Here is the checklist I have....

Cochrane
Collins
Critz
Donahue
Gehrig (added, I think I just missed it, as Ive seen a few)
Grove
Jackson
Judge
Kamm
Kelly
Klein
Miller
O'Doul
Shire
Vance
P.Waner

Can anyone add to it?

[Exhibitman]

I'd say that was a very nice price; those cards are tough. I think I paid around $200 for three of them (Klein, O'Doul, Vance) at the National in 2004.

[GehrigFan]

A Gehrig mini recently came through BVG. Made me do a double take as I'd never seen a Gehrig before.

[David W]

Here is a link to a discussion of these a few years back

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...light=517+mini

[jim]

Great pieces. Got the Gehrig a couple of years ago and the Klein a year or so ago. I think the Klein was from board member Zach. Truly not often seen pieces.
Gehrig mini.jpg

Klein mini.jpg

[leftygrove10]

Paul:

Nice pickup. You might have gotten a good price because of the holidays. Many people are on travel/out of town and do not have internet access -- thus you will not see as many bids on eBay auctions during the holidays. That's my theory at least....

Here are scans of my two Grove W517 minis.

[iggyman]

In Frank Ward's checklist, he does not list the variations......of course, this is wise, since these are so tough it doesn't matter. But, does anybody own a W517 mini Lefty O'Doul with the Phillies team name? I have an O'Doul mini with the tougher Brooklyn team name. In Adam Warshaw's website he also displays a W517 mini with the Brooklyn team name. It's a small sample size, but is this the only version that exists on the O'Doul mini's?

To go a little bit off-topic, but it relates to the W517's.....

http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/...n/2004/96.html

Lovely Day...

[paul]

I've seen the George Kelly and it lists him with Brooklyn. That puts the card at 1932. The O'Doul with Brooklyn would have to be 1931 or 1932 -- and 1932 seems more likely since the minis were probably issued for only a short time. So, it may be that the W517 minis are strictly a 1932 issue, made in a single printing with no variations, while the regular W517s were issued over a three year period with many team variations.

[leftygrove10]

Paul:

Over which three years do you suspect that the W517's were issued? 1930, 1931 and 1932?

Brad

[iggyman]

Frank Ward has the mini's listed under the year 1932 and states there is proof that the W517's were printed in ca. 1931. The O'Doul Brooklyn variation is the corrected version (which only proves it was updated later in the print run). From my limited experience the Brooklyn version is tougher then the Phillies version. Francis "Lefty" O'Doul played with the Phillies from 1929-1930 and then moved on to Brooklyn (after the 1930 season). The card depicts him in a New York Giants uniform (1928 season). Here are three of the mini's I own (as well as a regular size W517 for comparison). Apparently, these three cards were once own by Exhibitman (way back in 2004). If I ever get them slabbed, perhaps I should label them the "Scgaynor Frederick MD + Exhbitman 2004 National + 2009 Iggyman find".......is there a limit on the numbers of letters I can use on a slab?

Lovely Day...

[scgaynor]

There were like 5 or 6 Gehrig's in my group. I think that there were about 20 different cards. If I remember correctly the most common cards in terms of qty were Grove, Kamm, Waner and I want to say Earnshaw and there were about 10-15 of each of them. I should have kept better records, but back then my interest was in selling them and moving on.

Scott

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by iggyman

Apparently, these three cards were once own by Exhibitman (way back in 2004).

Lovely Day...

Nope; I still have mine. Looked at the Klein the other night as a matter of fact.

[David W]

These are the ones I picked up on Ebay a couple years back

I also picked up some actors and actresses, scans available if anyone wants to see them

[paul]

Brad,

Yes, I think the W517s were issued from 1930-32. I base the 1930 date on the fact that Grover Cleveland Alexander is listed as a Phillie, where he played only in 1930 (and decades earlier). The 1932 date is based on George Kelly with the Dodgers. I haven't given much thought to whether the cards were issued in 1931. It's possible that the cards were issued only in 1930 and 1932, unless there is good evidence of a print run updating the players for the 1931 season.

Paul

[leftygrove10]

Paul:

That's interesting... Is there more evidence besides Grover Cleveland Alexander that the cards might have been issued in 1930? I say that, because it's possible that the cards could have been issued in 1931 before the baseball season began and before he was traded to the new team. I know nothing about when G.C. Alexander was traded.

I would think that if the cards were issued in 1930 and 1932, that you must also assume that the cards were issued in 1931 as well. Why would they do a print run in 1930 and 1932, but not in 1931?

As far as 1932, does the card actually show George Kelly in a Dodgers uniform? While the team may be listed as the Dodgers on the card, he may be shown in the uniform of his previous team. If that is the case, it's possible that the card might have been produced late in 1931 after he was traded but before they had a chance to snap a picture of him with the Dodgers.

I find all of this fascinating... We may never know all the answers...

Happy New Year to all!

Brad

[Exhibitman]

David W: please post the entertainers too!

[paul]

Kelly is shown in a Giants uniform. He hadn't played with them in quite some time, so it's just an old photo. Even the Reds version of the Kelly shows him in the Giants uniform. I don't think any photos were ever updated in this set.

Kelly played no major league games in 1931, and played with Brooklyn only in 1932. So I think it's pretty clear that the Brooklyn variation was issued in 1932 (or conceivably early 1933).

I don't think there are any other players besides Alexander who help date the first print run to 1930, but I haven't really looked into it. Alexander played just a few games in 1930 then was out of the majors, playing with Dallas and then the House of David team. It's possible that the set was first printed in 1931, and Alexander was just included because he was so great a player. Eddie Collins is also in the set. I believe he played his last game in 1930 as well, but he stayed on as a coach and made it into the US Caramel set in 1933. So he could have been included only because he was still active as a coach.

It would be a little odd to print the set in just 1930 and 1932, but not unprecedented. The W590 set was apparently printed in 1925 and then updated and reprinted in 1931, with no printings in between.

[David W]

Here are the actors/actresses I picked up.

[danmckee]

Scott G. I had a few of these from long before 1996 and I know Bob of Empire State had a few as well. God rest Bob's soul.

These are very tough, I have about a dozen. This one looks great and I would say its value is about $200