secretarials

[theshleps]

I am sure I am not the only one that in my earlier collecting days purchased either Phil Dorsey signed Clemente items or mays secretarials, Faber wife signed etc.
What do you guys do with them? Rip them up? Keep them?

[tazdmb]

I have a wife signed Goslin, paid $80 to frame no less, that i want to rip up. I also have a Bucky Harris signed photo that apparently is a forgery per Ron's book and others on the board. I have since replaced it, but can't get the strength to destroy. Besides, it is JSA certified, so it has to be real!

[egri]

Not exactly the same situation, but some years ago, I purchased an autograph that upon inspection, was obviously a computer printout. I keep it, as a reminder to always do my homework before buying a signature.

[johnmh71]

It seems like only a Shoeless Joe wife signed is the only one that has value. But I could be wrong.

[Klrdds]

Originally Posted by johnmh71

It seems like only a Shoeless Joe wife signed is the only one that has value. But I could be wrong.

To some extent Claire Ruth's and Eleanor Gehrig's signatures have some value on their own merit...not as a ghost signer for their husbands.

[rsn1661]

Back in the mid to late 80's Baseball Card Magazine would include a list of players who signed thru the mail. I took it for granted that they would only list players who actually signed and as a result have several 70, 71 and 72 Aaron and Mays cards that are signed, but not by them. Makes me sick to look at them, but I cannot bring myself to throw them out. I also have 3 Koufax cards signed by 2 different people, I think 2 are legit as well as 3 Joe DiMaggio signatures I am unsure about. I will be posting the Koufax and DiMaggio items later to get everyones opinion. They even had Campenella listed as signing thru the mail, and not knowing about him I sent a worthless card and it was signed, apparently by a woman. I keep the ones I know are bad in a separate binder labeled as fakes so when I pass my kids won't be trying to pass them of as real.

[w7imel]

Originally Posted by johnmh71

It seems like only a Shoeless Joe wife signed is the only one that has value. But I could be wrong.

A Babe Ruth Sinclair oil contest ball has value as well.

[mrmopar]

I believe most of the nice looking Campy autos that could not have been him (such as the 1975 Program I have) are from his wife, then of course he had that rubber stamp. I don't remember sending away anything, but I do have a couple of his stamped signatures for fun.

Originally Posted by rsn1661

Back in the mid to late 80's Baseball Card Magazine would include a list of players who signed thru the mail. I took it for granted that they would only list players who actually signed and as a result have several 70, 71 and 72 Aaron and Mays cards that are signed, but not by them. Makes me sick to look at them, but I cannot bring myself to throw them out. I also have 3 Koufax cards signed by 2 different people, I think 2 are legit as well as 3 Joe DiMaggio signatures I am unsure about. I will be posting the Koufax and DiMaggio items later to get everyones opinion. They even had Campenella listed as signing thru the mail, and not knowing about him I sent a worthless card and it was signed, apparently by a woman. I keep the ones I know are bad in a separate binder labeled as fakes so when I pass my kids won't be trying to pass them of as real.

[bnorth]

I have only bought 1 item for the autograph. It was around 15-20 years ago and I was in Las Vegas. I was wandering around about 3/4 in the bag and they had a sports memorabilia shop in the Excalibur. Well needless to say my $50 autographed Wade Boggs 8 X 10 was not signed by Wade Boggs unless he signed it after his 107 beer flight.

[39special]

When I first started collecting autographs,I bought a Willie Mays signed index card without doing my homework.I found out it was signed by his wife.I wrote wife signed on the back to remined my self to always do my homework when it comes to autographs.$50 lesson learned.

[RTK]

Originally Posted by rsn1661

Back in the mid to late 80's Baseball Card Magazine would include a list of players who signed thru the mail. I took it for granted that they would only list players who actually signed and as a result have several 70, 71 and 72 Aaron and Mays cards that are signed, but not by them. Makes me sick to look at them, but I cannot bring myself to throw them out. I also have 3 Koufax cards signed by 2 different people, I think 2 are legit as well as 3 Joe DiMaggio signatures I am unsure about. I will be posting the Koufax and DiMaggio items later to get everyones opinion. They even had Campenella listed as signing thru the mail, and not knowing about him I sent a worthless card and it was signed, apparently by a woman. I keep the ones I know are bad in a separate binder labeled as fakes so when I pass my kids won't be trying to pass them of as real.

A friend of mine used to send away for autographs when he was growing up . A few ex players sent nice hand written letters thanking him for remembering them along with their autograph. He sent a card to Ted Williams and got it back a few weeks later signed. His suspicions grew as he got older that it could be a secretarial. Last year he had it "authenticated" as a secretarial.

[theshleps]

When my son was a batboy and clubby at the Arizona fall league about a decade ago one player- not a star asked him to autograph all is fan mail for him. I posted that on sportscollectors.net and people laughed at me but his mail was being ghost signed.
There is alot we do not know. Not sure which of my Sid Luckmans are real if any.
I have never knowingly sold a fake. I would though be tempted to sell one I thought wasn't real if it is slabbed.
When I was a kid and I stalked players at the hotels in the 1960's I used to copy players signatures for fun. never sold any. As a result my own signature has probably 4 or 5 versions with hybids incorporating different parts of each style. It would be about impossible to judge mine.
Also awile ago my son was a big Clint Barmes fan and we bought the giant banner of him that used to hang at Coors. We had Clint sign it and his autogrpah was nothing like we have ever seen him sign before or after- giant well formed distinct letters, etc. Even the best authenticators of us and others out there have a probably 10% margin of error or more.
I have a Ned Hanlon that matches no exemplars I have ever seen but has impeccable provenance and got it from Jimm Stinson who is as good and honest as they come. Sometimes I am tempted to sell it just cause it doesn't match.
Look at these two David Newhans
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2004-BOWMAN-...item19c0590c9e
http://www.ebay.com/itm/David-Newhan...item4d0b7b178e
I have over 50 David Newhans and he is a friend of mine. Look at the differences especially the D. I have watched David sign a stack of cards of mine and gotten both of these styles from him in the same batch in a random type order. Before I saw him do it I thought one was wife signed.
Sometimes I think if someone offered me a million dollars for my collection (I have alot more I haven't posted) I would just take it and buy a nice condo in Hawaii and stop pulling my hair about about judging authenticity. other times I am too addicted so even if someone offered me 1,000,000 just for my Hugh Duffy signed Mayo Plug- I would turn them down

[7nohitter]

Can some of you post your known secraterials?

[RTK]

In my friend's case, the authenticator based his decision on more on how and when he obtained the Ted Williams autograph, not on any real thorough scrutinizing of the signature itself. Frankly, I'm leery of the whole authentication industry. Signatures change over time and in how quickly a player signs something...one formed letter and a squiggle or straight line. The vast majority of current signatures are illegible any way, how can they be authenticated let alone are they worth the effort of collecting?


Who authenticates the authenticators?

[7nohitter]

Rick,

Totally correct stating that signatures change over time....I have three distinctly different signatures that I employ. One may not know of my other versions would would deem them a 'forgery' if seen.

We've seen how Mantle's (as an example) signature evolved from the 50's....can't a player's
s signature vary?

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by 7nohitter

Can some of you post your known secraterials?

Here is the Campy rubber stamp.
I have many secretarial signatures that I keep as reference. If I get a chance I will post them later.

[7nohitter]

Thanks Richard

[RichardSimon]

I found these three, I know I also have Combs, Dean and a few more. Just have to find them.

[Jerry G]

This is a magazine photo that I sent through the mail to Joe D back around 1966-67. Later, I learned that his sister signed a lot of his mail during that time period. Loved it when I got it. Still like it enough to keep it framed and on my wall.

[7nohitter]

Jerry,

Great photo! Now that I am getting better at recognizing ghost/forgeries/clubhouse signatures it's immediately obvious that this is not signed by Joe himself. But, like you, I would not have known or thought that 'way back when.'

Thanks for posting the picture!

[theshleps]

Did Bucky Harris's wife sign alot of his autograph requests TTM?

[Klrdds]

I have never heard of any problem with Bucky Harris' autograph or his wife signing. The only issue that I am aware of are the photos of him in a NY Yankees uniform standing on the dugout steps by himself. He signed many photos but this type is the only one that is a problem and it is a forged one not secretarial.

[rsn1661]

Here are a couple of cards I mentioned earlier. The Campanella is a rubber stamp and the K Mart Koufax I believe is fake. Unsure about the other 2 Koufax cards and am interested in what you guys think. I got them ttm late 80 by sending to him at Dodgers spring training.

[7nohitter]

The bottom two Koufax's are much more in line with the ones I have....the Kmart one definitely not signed by him.

[rsn1661]

I sent the K Mart one a year prior to the other 2 by sending c/o the HOF. I had read that he was not very good about signing thru the mail, but if you got him during spring training your chances were above average for getting him to sign.