Poll: response to recent PWCC revelations

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I don't know about NY, but in TX it's against the law to take money for a service you didn't provide.

Really? Which Texas criminal statute are you referring to?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Really? Which Texas criminal statute are you referring to?

It's right under the statute that affirms that doctoring a card is fraud. Surely you're familiar with it?

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

It's right under the statute that affirms that doctoring a card is fraud. Surely you're familiar with it?

PSA’s incompetence is not criminal, just as stupidity isn’t criminalized either.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by calvindog

PSA’s incompetence is not criminal, just as stupidity isn’t criminalized either.

Isn't PSA in essence a contractor? Aren't people paying them to perform a service? If they can't do that service (even if it is incompetence) can't they still be held liable in a civil court?

Maybe not criminal, but they're still obligated to perform the service for which they were paid. If I hire a contractor to remodel my kitchen and he screws it up, do I not have any recourse? Sure I do.

[calvindog]

Of course! They’re 100% liable civilly for their lousy work. And lousy is being kind.

And I wish a criminal case could be made against PSA as it would better explain some of their head-scratching incompetence. But that would require evidence that they purposely allowed altered cards to be graded, ie someone getting paid off to do so. There hasn’t even been smoke yet suggesting such evidence exists. But who knows for certain.

[Dpeck100]

Leon you raise a great point. A large percentage of respondents weren't using PWCC prior and so while their opinion matters for this poll it has no bearing on the future impact of PWCC.

I have been wearing Nike Air Max since I was 17. For the last 23 years I have only worn this type of athletic shoe. They have raised the price over time and the last pair I purchased was over $200. Nike in my view has the best styling and performance you can find and for that I am a loyal customer. Last year they did the unthinkable and ran adds with Colin Kaepernick. I despise that guy. How on earth could Nike alienate such a large percentage of their customer base in favor of making a political statement? In mass there was outrage on social media. Their stock dropped on the news. Videos of long time customers burning their products and swearing never to buy from them again. Here we sit a year later and I have never seen the add once, their stock is back to right where it was, you never hear anyone saying they are done with Nike, and my next pair of shoes will still be Air Max.

I shave six to seven days a week. I use the Gillette five blade and Edge shave gel. There have been loads of new products come onto the market. Cheaper blades, fancy shave creams and I still use the same formula that works for me. Gillette releases an add focusing on Toxic Masculinity. WTF??? Their vision is for all men to be beta male soy boys after for years showcasing studs that get chicks. Outrage ensues. Social media is exploding. Their idiotic video is shared countless times and the response was so bad they deleted thousands of comments from it on Youtube. My wife even said Dave I don't want Gillette products in our home. Here I sit as I type this and once more all of this has gone away. I still use the Gillette five blade and will continue to because in my view it is the best razor blade on the market.

This saga will pass in time. Collecting is an individual choice where people put their hard earned money into collectibles and to completely boycott the seller won't last. I am confident plenty of people saying this today will eventually turn and purchase from them once more. The same people consigning to PWCC could simply send the cards to Probstein. Are you going to boycott all consignment sellers? Of course not. Many of us search daily for specific cards or ones that could enhance our collections and I am not going to give up on that just because there is the appearance of wrong doing. It is laughable to think that all PWCC auctioned cards are bad. Reading comments on various boards that all high grade cards are suspect. Give me a break. I have self subbed a ton. Many others have too.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

Leon you raise a great point. A large percentage of respondents weren't using PWCC prior and so while their opinion matters for this poll it has no bearing on the future impact of PWCC.

I have been wearing Nike Air Max since I was 17. For the last 23 years I have only worn this type of athletic shoe. They have raised the price over time and the last pair I purchased was over $200. Nike in my view has the best styling and performance you can find and for that I am a loyal customer. Last year they did the unthinkable and ran adds with Colin Kaepernick. I despise that guy. How on earth could Nike alienate such a large percentage of their customer base in favor of making a political statement? In mass there was outrage on social media. Their stock dropped on the news. Videos of long time customers burning their products and swearing never to buy from them again. Here we sit a year later and I have never seen the add once, their stock is back to right where it was, you never hear anyone saying they are done with Nike, and my next pair of shoes will still be Air Max.

I shave six to seven days a week. I use the Gillette five blade and Edge shave gel. There have been loads of new products come onto the market. Cheaper blades, fancy shave creams and I still use the same formula that works for me. Gillette releases an add focusing on Toxic Masculinity. WTF??? Their vision is for all men to be beta male soy boys after for years showcasing studs that get chicks. Outrage ensues. Social media is exploding. Their idiotic video is shared countless times and the response was so bad they deleted thousands of comments from it on Youtube. My wife even said Dave I don't want Gillette products in our home. Here I sit as I type this and once more all of this has gone away. I still use the Gillette five blade and will continue to because in my view it is the best razor blade on the market.

This saga will pass in time. Collecting is an individual choice where people put their hard earned money into collectibles and to completely boycott the seller won't last. I am confident plenty of people saying this today will eventually turn and purchase from them once more. The same people consigning to PWCC could simply send the cards to Probstein. Are you going to boycott all consignment sellers? Of course not. Many of us search daily for specific cards or ones that could enhance our collections and I am not going to give up on that just because there is the appearance of wrong doing. It is laughable to think that all PWCC auctioned cards are bad. Reading comments on various boards that all high grade cards are suspect. Give me a break. I have self subbed a ton. Many others have too.

You're equating possible criminal behavior with social issue marketing with which you disagree.

[irv]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

QED. He knew what Gary did, trust me. Was he alone? No, not at all, many people did and do the same thing, to some extent for Gary and for many other card doctors. But that doesn't excuse Brent. He knowingly sold altered cards for money. He knew it was wrong. It isn't any more complicated than that.

Spot on!

It is mind boggling, confusing, shocking and a whole host of other descriptions that people are still willing to purchase, and in essence, support PWCC after what has been exposed about them to date.

I guess I will never understand the rationality behind it? To me, its like continuing to purchase something from a dept store or another business that is well known to sell suspect merchandise or known to rip off its customers.

Also, like I stated before, with PWCC being a top selling entity. Does anyone honestly think they would be as well known/popular as they are if they didn't sell these supposed high end PSA 8, 9's, and 10 cards?

Take away all the doctored/known cards that have been discovered to date and what do you have? Nothing. They would be nothing more than an average ebay selling entity.
They got to that status/popularity by being dishonest, deceitful, crooked and corrupt and if anyone can't see that, then you simply have the blinders on or lack the mental aptitude to grasp that fact.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by irv

Spot on!

It is mind boggling, confusing, shocking and a whole host of other descriptions that people are still willing to purchase, and in essence, support PWCC after what has been exposed about them to date.

I guess I will never understand the rationality behind it? To me, its like continuing to purchase something from a dept store or another business that is well known to sell suspect merchandise or known to rip off its customers.

Also, like I stated before, with PWCC being a top selling entity. Does anyone honestly think they would be as well known/popular as they are if they didn't sell these supposed high end PSA 8, 9's, and 10 cards?

Take away all the doctored/known cards that have been discovered to date and what do you have? Nothing. They would be nothing more than an average ebay selling entity.
They got to that status/popularity by being dishonest, deceitful, crooked and corrupt and if anyone can't see that, then you simply have the blinders on or lack the mental aptitude to grasp that fact.

See my signature line.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by irv

Spot on!

It is mind boggling, confusing, shocking and a whole host of other descriptions that people are still willing to purchase, and in essence, support PWCC after what has been exposed about them to date.

I guess I will never understand the rationality behind it? To me, its like continuing to purchase something from a dept store or another business that is well known to sell suspect merchandise or known to rip off its customers.

Also, like I stated before, with PWCC being a top selling entity. Does anyone honestly think they would be as well known/popular as they are if they didn't sell these supposed high end PSA 8, 9's, and 10 cards?

Take away all the doctored/known cards that have been discovered to date and what do you have? Nothing. They would be nothing more than an average ebay selling entity.
They got to that status/popularity by being dishonest, deceitful, crooked and corrupt and if anyone can't see that, then you simply have the blinders on or lack the mental aptitude to grasp that fact.

Hi Irv, I think most don't believe what they are posting. Just covering their ASS-ets.

[Dpeck100]

[QUOTE=Aquarian Sports Cards;1888471]You're equating possible criminal behavior with social issue marketing with which you disagree.[/QUOTe


The only issue here for most people is that they have done something that may tarnish their brand. PWCC has 44,648 completed listings on the most recent EBAY search. They are just like Nike and just like Gillette and sell products to consumers. They are the premium brand just like these two are in the sports collectables market.

There are a lot of sellers that would like to see harm done to them because it would once more open up business opportunities for them that at the present no longer exist.

When you think of the best cards offered on EBAY they are the first name that comes to mind. I think just like the two examples I gave that there are a lot of upset people that will over time move on.

There is a lot of value in a brand. If they have done un repairable damage to that brand we will find out in the coming months. I would bet they haven't because the products they offer are what consumers are looking for.

[griffon512]

Originally Posted by calvindog

PSA’s incompetence is not criminal, just as stupidity isn’t criminalized either.

jeff/peter, do you think psa's actions (or lack thereof) were negligent? do you think a judge/jury would find them negligent (either criminal or civil)?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by griffon512

jeff/peter, do you think psa's actions (or lack thereof) were negligent? do you a judge/jury would find them negligent (either criminal or civil)?

If I were claiming PSA misgraded a card I bought, I would just bring a claim on their guarantee, which is an easier case in the nature of strict liability, I'm not sure why I would go to negligence although I'd have to think about it further.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If I were claiming PSA misgraded a card I bought, I would just bring a claim on their guarantee, which is an easier case in the nature of strict liability, I'm not sure why I would go to negligence although I'd have to think about it further.

Right. Their negligence triggers their guarantee.

PSA has always banked on people not willing to sue them due to the relatively small amount in dispute when they misgrade a card. So they refuse to honor the guarantee for any reason they think will fit, and rarely pay out.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Right. Their negligence triggers their guarantee.

PSA has always banked on people not willing to sue them due to the relatively small amount in dispute when they misgrade a card. So they refuse to honor the guarantee for any reason they think will fit, and rarely pay out.

There doesn't even need to be underlying negligence. Maybe the doctoring was so good they couldn't have detected it using ordinary care; but you can now prove it was doctored through before and after photos. Still liable. The guarantee has no exceptions.

[Snapolit1]

It’s simply amazing that’s a major swath of this board has apparently not been participating in PWCC auctions for sometime, yet in the past year I’ve been outbid on over 95% of the high end items I’ve bid on.

I call bullshit.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

It’s simply amazing that’s a major swath of this board has apparently not been participating in PWCC auctions for sometime, yet in the past year I’ve been outbid on over 95% of the high end items I’ve bid on.

I call bullshit.

They might have done you a favor by outbidding you, Steve.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

It’s simply amazing that’s a major swath of this board has apparently not been participating in PWCC auctions for sometime, yet in the past year I’ve been outbid on over 95% of the high end items I’ve bid on.

I call bullshit.

I hate to tell you but Net54 is a very small forum with very few active members. So even if every Net54 member quit bidding in PWCC auctions it would make little to no difference.

So call BS all you want.

[irv]

Originally Posted by BLongley

Forbes article...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rayglie.../#5439c3bf2152

What happened to David Seidman? Oh, that's right, he only talks about the great things Brent has done for the hobby.