PSA or SGC?

[Tomman1961]

I'm sure it has been discussed but never needed to read. May I hear opinions comparing SGC or PSA grading service for Baseball cards.

[ksabet]

[quinnsryche]

My opinion: PSA is better for resale value. SGC has a better looking holder and the grading aspect is more accurate than PSA. I always chose SGC over PSA for my personal collection but PSA always got me more money back on my investment.
Just my personal experience, I'm sure MANY will chime in with their own stories.

[ullmandds]

Archive is the guy to ask.

[frankbmd]

I prefer LSMFT.

[HRBAKER]

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

I prefer LSMFT.

Jack Benny FTW.

[buymycards]

Everyone on this board has 100% agreed that PSA is the best. There is no controversy whatsoever.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Try a google search. SGC vs. PSA net 54. Enjoy.

[thehoodedcoder]

Originally Posted by quinnsryche

My opinion: PSA is better for resale value. SGC has a better looking holder and the grading aspect is more accurate than PSA. I always chose SGC over PSA for my personal collection but PSA always got me more money back on my investment.
Just my personal experience, I'm sure MANY will chime in with their own stories.

That is because psa is tougher on corners. Every sgc 5 I have tried to cross over has come back a 4. The weak prices across the board for SGC are out there because of the card in the holder.

Kevin

[toledo_mudhen]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

I prefer LSMFT.

That would be Loose Straps Mean Floppy TaTa's - Right?

[1880nonsports]

"The weak prices across the board for SGC are out there because of the card in the holder."

I'd suggest you stop buying SGC 5's and trying to cross them if that's the case.... Each company has their own grading criteria. PSA "4" cards often seem to have a small crease and I've found paper missing on the backs. SGC seems to allow for more corner wear - sometimes their VG cards are more like good. I'm in the SGC camp and I have ungraded cards as well. Vanilla, chocolate, moose tracks - there are many ways to collect. Most of the time both do a decent job. Some of the time they do a really bad job. Align yourself in either camp or neither - sometimes your unyielding blanket statements relative to quality control and pricing just doesn't stand up to the facts. If you bought a card on it's own merits and not based on what some third party said - in the long run you would likely be less disappointed.....

[thehoodedcoder]

Originally Posted by 1880nonsports

"The weak prices across the board for SGC are out there because of the card in the holder."

I'd suggest you stop buying SGC 5's and trying to cross them if that's the case.... Each company has their own grading criteria. PSA "4" cards often seem to have a small crease and I've found paper missing on the backs. SGC seems to allow for more corner wear - sometimes their VG cards are more like good. I'm in the SGC camp and I have ungraded cards as well. Vanilla, chocolate, moose tracks - there are many ways to collect. Most of the time both do a decent job. Some of the time they do a really bad job. Align yourself in either camp or neither - sometimes your unyielding blanket statements relative to quality control and pricing just doesn't stand up to the facts. If you bought a card on it's own merits and not based on what some third party said - in the long run you would likely be less disappointed.....

I absolutely did that. I will never buy another SGC card again unless I am willing to take the downgrade of a full grade.

I align with corners being more important, and probably does most of the rest of the world. That is a great talking point in of itself. If you had to stack all aspects up, corners, cleanliness, centering etc. I'm willing to bet corners are the most important to the majority of people. Prewar only people, sure, maybe not so much.

I have only ever seen three 4s with a crease in my time. The only reason they were 4s with a crease is because every other aspect of the cards were above a 4. Based on grading standard it was the minimum grade that could be given.

Missing paper on a PSA 4? What world is that comment from? How many examples can you back that up with, 1, 2, a handful of them amongst the several thousand?

Kevin

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Kevin - I always find it interesting how differently people value certain condition aspects. Personally I rate corners very low. I value centering and image quality with much more weight.

[thehoodedcoder]

My next importance would be centering. Who am I kidding, they are almost as important as each other.

I have turned down so many cards because of centering. I would say I am split like this

45 percent corners
35 percent centering
15 percent paper quality....obviously within reason. if its to much and subtracting from the rest it could over power the rest.

5 percent swing because no poll adds up to 100 percent ever.

Kevin

[slipk1068]

Originally Posted by thehoodedcoder

If you had to stack all aspects up, corners, cleanliness, centering etc. I'm willing to bet corners are the most important to the majority of people.

Corners mean little/nothing to me. Cleanliness and size. Many times sharp corners=small card.

[slipk1068]

Originally Posted by thehoodedcoder

Missing paper on a PSA 4? What world is that comment from? How many examples can you back that up with, 1, 2, a handful of them amongst the several thousand?

Kevin

MANY more cards in PSA 4 and 5 holders with missing paper than SGC holders. MANY MANY more.

Now I will sit back and watch the fireworks begin.

[Peter_Spaeth]

SGC is more forgiving on corner wear. PSA is more forgiving on minor wrinkles and marks and spots of paper loss (or they miss them more frequently). I have questions about the purity of both companies for different reasons; hope I am wrong but have seen an awful lot that doesn't make sense.

[pbspelly]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

I used to work with an editor who would say, "No point in flagellating a moribund ungulate."

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by pbspelly

I used to work with an editor who would say, "No point in flagellating a moribund ungulate."

I'm going to need Barry Arnold to translate that for me.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

I'm going to need Barry Arnold to translate that for me.

Yes it behooves you to do so.

[frankbmd]

it's PSA without a doubt, because



they seem to ignore large black (or maybe dark blue) spots in the background.

All grading algorithms are flawed and all graders are human regardless of which hat they are wearing.

PS - This beauty could be yours.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

it's PSA without a doubt, because







they seem to ignore large black (or maybe dark blue) spots in the background.



All grading algorithms are flawed and all graders are human regardless of which hat they are wearing.



PS - This beauty could be yours.

In their defense the corners are pretty sharp.

[auggiedoggy]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

it's PSA without a doubt, because



they seem to ignore large black (or maybe dark blue) spots in the background.

All grading algorithms are flawed and all graders are human regardless of which hat they are wearing.

PS - This beauty could be yours.

Ok, but I'll have to sell some high-end stuff first!

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by I Only Smoke 4 the Cards

In their defense the corners are pretty sharp.

You got that right Alex and sometimes 3 out of 4 is enough



I repeat all grading algorithms are flawed and all graders are human regardless of which hat they are wearing.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

I repeat all grading algorithms are flawed and all graders are human regardless of which hat they are wearing.

I agree with this 100%. It is impossible to be totally objective.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by auggiedoggy

Ok, but I'll have to sell some high-end stuff first!

Don't sell Rob.

I'll trade Crandall for one of those overgraded SGC 60s that would cross to a PSA 4.

[3-2-count]

Originally Posted by 1880nonsports

If you bought a card on it's own merits and not based on what some third party said - in the long run you would likely be less disappointed.....

Smartest comment made in this thread yet!! Agreed!!

[jpaol99]

If you want to get a nicely trimmed card graded then send it to PSA. That's why I choose SGC for my personal cards.

Justin

[HerbK]

Breaking News; Stevie Wonder gets hired by the PSA Grading Co.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1915-Cracker...item5affb9e9d8

I don't know what's sadder; the grade or the fact the guy wants $425 for it ....

[MyGuyTy]

I prefer CSA.......they've done studies you know, 60% of the time they get it right every time

[1880nonsports]

was a T206 = I think 12,000. would be about right. I have the recent CJ book but unfamiliar with the known "error" population of the cards and while I admire the way the set presents I've never collected Cracker Jacks - too new. I have a couple 19th century examples of printing anomalies in my sets as I think they're neat. In fact to me the type of printing error on the card is way more interesting than other types of errors that aren't graphic in nature. If I collected the set - I'd want an example like that - just not at a premium beyond 15 - 20% fair market value of a regular version of the card. That's just me. Collectors often want something a little different, a little more special than what the other guy has got - cool looking card no matter what - I'm graphics driven.
As for the grading - it's an interesting problem to grade that card if in fact it isn't trimmed on the right side and/or trimmed from a sheet. It's hard to tell from a scan and in a tomb on the interweb. I'm not sure if that's what you meant (trimmed) or just the glaring off register and missing inking.
If it isn't altered or hand cut - what should the grade be? I agree excellent might be a stretch :-) A grade is supposed to convey the physical state of the card as defined by the company on a global level and in the trenches as executed by an employee. That doesn't always happen.
I'm probably alone in the idea that the card should be authentic even if it's not trimmed regardless of which company or individual is grading it. As a result of problems in the printing process the card stands as an incomplete representation of the intended card. I'm surprised PSA doesn't have a rule or qualifier to treat this kind of situation as it must come up often enough. Not busting chops - just trying to understand something that's probably obvious to everyone but me. Wouldn't be the first time.
What I did notice is that there's no scan of the back, the card can't be enlarged without putting it in your own photo program, and the scan isn't clear. My kind of seller.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by HerbK

Breaking News; Stevie Wonder gets hired by the PSA Grading Co.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1915-Cracker...item5affb9e9d8

I don't know what's sadder; the grade or the fact the guy wants $425 for it ....

Honestly, I might respectfully disagree with you. For PSA grading standards I think it is probably correct. There is a sheet or more of those types of micuts/misprints floating around. I have a few numerically graded and I like them. I could care less about the actual grade but do think they probably got it right....(my opinion). One of these misprints is a PSA 4 MC and the other is an SGC 40....and I should add that in the future a comment like you made really needs to have your full name by it. Nothing personal...

[baker85]

I love lamp

[HerbK]

Leon,

My apologies - I will, in the future sign my name when posting against something or someone.

My post wasn't inferring that these sorts of cards were not collectible – particularly if you’re unconcerned with the grade. Hey, different strokes for different folks. What I was stating (sarcastically) which I stand by, was that the card in question, did not deserve the grade of “EX 5”. I see three or four significant issues with this card (registration – perhaps the worst I’ve ever seen, the border itself – one third of it is present while the balance is missing as it is clearly miscut). And we haven’t even seen the back – although one would think that if it does look OK that the seller would have been better served to include a scan of it. Heck, I might even be tempted to make it the main listing photo lol.

From PSA’s site:

EX 5: Excellent
On PSA EX-5 cards, very minor rounding of the corners is becoming evident. Surface wear or printing defects are more visible. There may be minor chipping on edges. Loss of original gloss will be more apparent. Focus of picture may be slightly out-of-register. Several light scratches may be visible upon close inspection, but do not detract from the appeal of the card. Card may show some off-whiteness of borders. Centering must be 85/15 or better on the front and 90/10 or better on the back.

The card does not look “slightly” out of register...

PSA 5’s for 1915 no name players are fetching $200 – $200+. Though some may feel that such a card is worth a premium, I’m not one of them. But to list the card for 100% more than what a 5 should go for, is in my opinion, ridiculous.

BTW... I made this post with no particular intent to slam PSA. My collection is comprised of PSA and SGC and like/dislike each company for different reasons. They both have their goods and bads...

Herb Kane.